US in talks with Taliban for Peace

[Jhhnn]

We should have left that "country" when we failed to support the attack on Tora Bora. Our forces ought be in Pakistan. Not in Afghanistan.

Given that we couldn't subdue a nation of 24M, let's just attack 162M in a neighboring country. Brilliant. Maybe that's because resources were diverted to the real prize, Iraq, where we've fared only marginally better. How'd that happen, anyway? Gonna blame Barney Frank, or what?

Amazing what passes for thought among the faithful neocon believers on the right fringe...

Kill for Peace! It's the only way.

Did I say "attack"? Did I anywhere say fucking attack. Why don't you learn to read. Then maybe you can join the discussion.

What a twit. How else are our forces going to "be in Pakistan", given that the Pakistanis don't want us there?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...o-curb-us-role/2011/06/12/AGrSi2VH_story.html

Righties brains are like a pot full of shit- the pot's perfectly OK, but the contents stink.

 

[Lemon law]

My other comment is that we can talk about spilled milk at Tora Bora but that opportunity done slipped and Nato will never have it again.

We had the Taliban on the run, in a classic anvil and pincher movement. But we forgot to have the anvil set up at Tora Bora. We have since learned that Donald Rumsfeld was the dumbest sec of defense in history. A legend in his own mind and nothing more.

But still Tora Bora still bought Afghanistan almost two years of Taliban free presence, but our Nato alliance with drug runners and war lords bought the Taliban the needed Afghan
people we need help to bring the Taliban enough of a welcome home to thrive.

And by the way, Afghanistan has a population of some 31 million. Not the 24 million population of present day Iraq.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

It's sad really, because if Afghanistan would stabilize those fuckers could be a first world nation.

There's FIFTY TRILLION DOLLARS worth of precious and industrial metals in those mountains in the east.

LOL, yeah!

So if you just lend me all your money i'll aquire the tools to enrich it!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

it will still be there in 200 years when they get their collective heads out of the sand.

It's a parody of a common spam e-mail. Not really a parody either...

Keep up.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Ich libe Nazis.

yeah, we all know how much you hate jews and love every enemy of the US, NATO and Israel, it's not fucking news...

I've told you and you have accepted as correct information my experiences with the Taliban and you think they can be negotiatied with?

Their end game is the destruction of NATO, not figuratively, LITERALLY, and every last one of us dead, their goal for us is the same goal of Hamas for Israel, and you know what, they still convince retards to believe in it and fight as if they had a chance of winning.

That is why they keep it up, they cannot possibly win, eventually both Hamas and the Taliban will be eradicated, it really doesn't matter what it takes, we're just waiting for a proper excuse.

None will be left alive, not one, and then you can complain as much as you want, much like now, it will be to late, much too late.

 

[cirrrocco]

The goal was never to destroy the taliban... it was to go after Al-qaeda (who were harbored by the taliban at the time) and help Afghanistan build a new government. Routing the taliban at the time was a means to the end.

Afghanistan is not... nor will they ever be able to govern themselves outside the large cities... corruption, warlords, etc will always be in charge.

The only way to withdraw from afghanistan is to make sure the taliban doesn't destroy what little government control there is there.

Rudder. for the last 9 years, the taliban has been killing american boys and women. Not Alqaeda. The al qaeda were swiftly relocated from tora bora to Pakistan. You dont see a lot of uzbecks, chechens, and saudi barbarians fighting these days in Afghanistan. It is mostly Pashtuns who comprise the core of taliban. They have been doing most of the killing.

if the goal isnt to destroy Taliban, 5 years down the line, another aptly named ISI created entity will be leeting off a dirty bomb in NYC. do you want to take that chance.

 

[a777pilot]

What a twit. How else are our forces going to "be in Pakistan", given that the Pakistanis don't want us there?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...o-curb-us-role/2011/06/12/AGrSi2VH_story.html

Righties brains are like a pot full of shit- the pot's perfectly OK, but the contents stink.

We are in a lot of different countries. Besides that if they don't want us there, how is it that we are there?

If ever this country was to get involved in nation building, it should be Pakistan.

 

[cirrrocco]

Maybe we are looking for a way to gtfo out of there? If the people want to live in the stone age let them.

Jstorm, the US can easily gtfo of there. Simple,

1. have a carrier based task force in the Arabian Sea
2. Give 50-100 million every year to the Northern Alliance / the decent Pashtuns a role in the govt.
3. have a good network of spies /tech gear. any time taliban assembles in force, whack em. We should ensure that what happened before when Taliban organized by ISI majors and colonels were almost about to take over Afghanistan never happens. If it wasnt for Iran / Russia / India supporting the northern Alliance, Afghanistan would have been totally under Taliban control and a genocide would have happened.
4. Let the NA / Balochs take care of the nutty Taliban. In a generation issue is solved.
5. Pakistan should allow overflight access to US flights at all times. if not make sure this time the threat to really bomb them back to the stone age happens. any vaccilation from the pakistan should induce a dozen or so tomahawks towards GHQ. The pakistanis will rail and froth but they cant touch the US. if they mass for an attack towards india, blast them to pieces.


US net loss
1. About a billion dollars total over a decade. We spend that in one week in afghanistan.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Rudder. for the last 9 years, the taliban has been killing american boys and women.

Imma gonna stop you right there.

They have been killing allied forces mostly, of which Afghani allies have made the most outstanding effort to resist in the face of the overwhelming resistance.

If you don't take this Brits word for it you can ask anyone who have dealt with the Kabul security forces.

The Taliban has been a protector of groups killing NATO forces and allied soldiers, police and civilian informers.

The Taliban itself hasn't killed sheit, they are the protectors, guys like Zawahiri (named leader yesterday for Al Quaida, i don't know if it's released info but it's close enough now, it has to be) are not part of the Taliban.

The Taliban are another animal, the two need to be distinguished which kind of sucks, because the Tabliban, much like Hisb'Allah, another terrorist organisation can get political influence.

It's not likely that the Taliban will survive a joint offensive though, we probably should try that if there isn't anything more important this time around..

 

[cirrrocco]

Imma gonna stop you right there.

They have been killing allied forces mostly, of which Afghani allies have made the most outstanding effort to resist in the face of the overwhelming resistance.

If you don't take this Brits word for it you can ask anyone who have dealt with the Kabul security forces.

The Taliban has been a protector of groups killing NATO forces and allied soldiers, police and civilian informers.

The Taliban itself hasn't killed sheit, they are the protectors, guys like Zawahiri (named leader yesterday for Al Quaida, i don't know if it's released info but it's close enough now, it has to be) are not part of the Taliban.

The Taliban are another animal, the two need to be distinguished which kind of sucks, because the Tabliban, much like Hisb'Allah, another terrorist organisation can get political influence.

It's not likely that the Taliban will survive a joint offensive though, we probably should try that if there isn't anything more important this time around..

hey john. Sorry I should have said Allied forces. It is a thankless place to serve and people serving there deserve the deepest respect. It must be like going back in time from the 24'th century and serving a tour in a shithole in the 21'st century.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

What a twit. How else are our forces going to "be in Pakistan", given that the Pakistanis don't want us there?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...o-curb-us-role/2011/06/12/AGrSi2VH_story.html

Righties brains are like a pot full of shit- the pot's perfectly OK, but the contents stink.

Fuck Pakistan, it's not like we are there to twiddle our toes, it's just that making our presence known made it a political issue.

So fuck them, they'll have to deal with it, or rather since they don't, we will.

They want to protect people like Bin Ladin knowing full well they are there and fucking with NATO, knowing full well where Zawahiri is and fucking with us...

You're right to be pissed, FUCK THEM.

 

[cirrrocco]

Fuck Pakistan, it's not like we are there to twiddle our toes, it's just that making our presence known made it a political issue.

So fuck them, they'll have to deal with it, or rather since they don't, we will.

They want to protect people like Bin Ladin knowing full well they are there and fucking with NATO, knowing full well where Zawahiri is and fucking with us...

You're right to be pissed, FUCK THEM.

Also the news is that, mullah Omar is in Pakistan. The US has been able to contact him and has started negotiations.

The war on terror has now changed to the war for terror.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

hey john. Sorry I should have said Allied forces. It is a thankless place to serve and people serving there deserve the deepest respect. It must be like going back in time from the 24'th century and serving a tour in a shithole in the 21'st century.

All places are thankless places to serve, you shouldn't be sorry about it though, the thought that this is only a US mission isn't perpetrated by you but rather by the US politicians with they idiot attitude.

I've served more tours in two of this shitholes than i did as a team assembler in three war zones before this and that says a lot.

Many people ask me what i think about it, well i think we should get free air support and have the team targeting as we once did, an unlimited source of ammo and some FUCKING leadiership.

Yeah, we need to fuck Pakistan to win, so what?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Also the news is that, mullah Omar is in Pakistan. The US has been able to contact him and has started negotiations.

The war on terror has now changed to the war for terror.

I don't know if it's been reported yet (should have been and at least not to early for me to say) but Zawahiri is the new leader.

 

[Lemon law]

yeah, we all know how much you hate jews and love every enemy of the US, NATO and Israel, it's not fucking news...

I've told you and you have accepted as correct information my experiences with the Taliban and you think they can be negotiatied with?

Their end game is the destruction of NATO, not figuratively, LITERALLY, and every last one of us dead, their goal for us is the same goal of Hamas for Israel, and you know what, they still convince retards to believe in it and fight as if they had a chance of winning.

That is why they keep it up, they cannot possibly win, eventually both Hamas and the Taliban will be eradicated, it really doesn't matter what it takes, we're just waiting for a proper excuse.

None will be left alive, not one, and then you can complain as much as you want, much like now, it will be to late, much too late.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its too late for all of that, why worry about the Taliban when we are still waiting for the VietCong to over run us. That was the argument during the Vietnam war, and its proved to be every bit as hollow as your ravings.

But still like Vietnam, with a proud history of resistance to foreign occupation, we are in good company in Afghanistan. Alexander the great tried and failed to conquer Afghanistan,
later you Brits flush with victory in India sent in an big army almost 200 years ago, it was easy for you Brits to get in, but your army got butchered almost to the last man. Later smarter Brits made Afghanistan into a buffer State in a divide and conquer, but not even the Russian army could win in Afghanistan.

But meanwhile I will remain, afraid, very afraid of the Taliban taking over the world.

But meanwhile, JOS, thanks for playing fear mongering game. Its so helping us to win in Afghanistan as it is.

 

[rudder]

Rudder. for the last 9 years, the taliban has been killing american boys and women. Not Alqaeda. The al qaeda were swiftly relocated from tora bora to Pakistan. You dont see a lot of uzbecks, chechens, and saudi barbarians fighting these days in Afghanistan. It is mostly Pashtuns who comprise the core of taliban. They have been doing most of the killing.

if the goal isnt to destroy Taliban, 5 years down the line, another aptly named ISI created entity will be leeting off a dirty bomb in NYC. do you want to take that chance.

So how do you destroy the Taliban? They have leaders sure.. and you can kill those leaders and move on to the next. In maybe 100 years we can still be at it. You have to consider the politics in the region. Pakistan will not cooperate... how long can we keep utilizing a drone war in that country? How do you determine who, in rural afghanistan, is a member of the taliban? If they are not taliban, they are sympathetic to the taliban because they do not particularly want Americans in the country.

The plan was to put Afghanistan in a place where they would have a strong central government which could project power over the whole country. This is not going to happen.

 

[Jhhnn]

The plan was to put Afghanistan in a place where they would have a strong central government which could project power over the whole country. This is not going to happen.

Oh, please. The Bush Admin plan apparently was to set up a corrupt and ineffectual govt spreading payola back to friends & family, prop it up as long as possible to keep the money flowing & the propaganda opportunities ripe.

If that wasn't their intention, then they've failed miserably.

 

[BoredWork]

You must be fucking kidding me. After probably a trillion dollars and this many lives, the US goes back an starts negotiating with the Taliban. What kinda harebrained State dept dumbass came up with this idea.

so what would you have us do? stay there and keep killing each other and not work towards peace? shouldnt we be trying to work with everyone..even our enemies ..to find peaceful solutions to our problems/disagreements?

 

[cirrrocco]

So how do you destroy the Taliban? They have leaders sure.. and you can kill those leaders and move on to the next. In maybe 100 years we can still be at it. You have to consider the politics in the region. Pakistan will not cooperate... how long can we keep utilizing a drone war in that country? How do you determine who, in rural afghanistan, is a member of the taliban? If they are not taliban, they are sympathetic to the taliban because they do not particularly want Americans in the country.

The plan was to put Afghanistan in a place where they would have a strong central government which could project power over the whole country. This is not going to happen.

Rudder, please read my post above where I replied to jstorm as to how the US can extricate themselves out of this mess.

Us the locals to control the locals. use Northern Alliance to control the taliban. prop them up. It wont cost the US more than 100 mil a year to do that.

if the taliban mass up, cruise missile or attack from orbit. They will never gain control of the land, and in a decade they will sue for peace and the northern alliance will forcefully bring them from 7'th AD to 19'th Century.

For rural southern afghanistan, again use the locals. once we let the Northern Alliance do their thing for a few years, reconciliation will quickly happen.

Taliban was expressly created to project Pakistan's influence into afghanistan. when Taliban does not gain control , the taliban ideology will fade away. Pakistan does not have enough money to keep supporting them forever. 1 billion a year for the US, is like fart money.

 

[cirrrocco]

so what would you have us do? stay there and keep killing each other and not work towards peace? shouldnt we be trying to work with everyone..even our enemies ..to find peaceful solutions to our problems/disagreements?

do you think the US is gonna leave the region.. there will be combat troops for years and years to come and the situatiion will be none the better. better kill off the hateful ideology. When we prop up the NA and let the Pashtuns know that the NA is coming for them, all the crazy fundo jihadists will rush to battle. Now the US can easily take em out, and not let the taliban organize and gain control.

Currently the issue is we have Karzai , who is ethnic pashtun and he cannot go against the taliban who adhere to pashtunwali and are mostly pashtuns. Their biggest fucking fear is the Northern Alliance coming to their village and changing their lifestyle. so use the NA to cleans the hot blooded ones and in a decade, all the hot shot Pashtun / Talibunnies are dead. Northern Alliance would have controlled major parts of the country and put the fear of god into the Pashtuns. That is when peace will truly arrive. Fight rage with rage and the hazaras and tajiks know how to deal personally with the Pashtuns. With US support which is a pittance in monetary terms, the NA will prevail and peace will finally come.

 

[Balt]

What kinda harebrained State dept dumbass came up with this idea.

Just out of curiosity, are you really under the impression that the State Dept. sets foreign policy?

 

[cirrrocco]

Just out of curiosity, are you really under the impression that the State Dept. sets foreign policy?

yup. maybe in the last few years Pentagon has been taking a more leading role with regard to policy making. Before that , the foggy bottom folks wholly recommended foreign policy. yeah in some situations, the president may disagree with what the SD has recommended and go with his own policy, but I believe that to be far in between. why do you think otherwise.

 

[Lemon law]

Where does this bullshit come from that the Taliban is still all controlled by Mullah Omer?

Get em a clue, many of the power brokers and the tactics have direct roots to the same Mujahedin leaders who were CIA trained and funded to expel the Russians.

And now they simply stay the same as before, they did not like foreign Russian domination, as Afghan Patriots why should they like US domination any better?

On a lone bright side, most of the former mujahedin figures have little use for Mullah Omer wacki ideas.

The only thing that has not changed is Nato stupidity, as for the Taliban its a moving target. And so for that matter is the government of Pakistan. Who is now pissed off enough at Nato to terminate its land supply line lease into Afghanistan.

 

[JSt0rm]

Jstorm, the US can easily gtfo of there. Simple,

1. have a carrier based task force in the Arabian Sea
2. Give 50-100 million every year to the Northern Alliance / the decent Pashtuns a role in the govt.
3. have a good network of spies /tech gear. any time taliban assembles in force, whack em. We should ensure that what happened before when Taliban organized by ISI majors and colonels were almost about to take over Afghanistan never happens. If it wasnt for Iran / Russia / India supporting the northern Alliance, Afghanistan would have been totally under Taliban control and a genocide would have happened.
4. Let the NA / Balochs take care of the nutty Taliban. In a generation issue is solved.
5. Pakistan should allow overflight access to US flights at all times. if not make sure this time the threat to really bomb them back to the stone age happens. any vaccilation from the pakistan should induce a dozen or so tomahawks towards GHQ. The pakistanis will rail and froth but they cant touch the US. if they mass for an attack towards india, blast them to pieces.


US net loss
1. About a billion dollars total over a decade. We spend that in one week in afghanistan.

I think we should try to leave with more maturity then we entered.

 

[BoredWork]

do you think the US is gonna leave the region.. there will be combat troops for years and years to come and the situatiion will be none the better. better kill off the hateful ideology. When we prop up the NA and let the Pashtuns know that the NA is coming for them, all the crazy fundo jihadists will rush to battle. Now the US can easily take em out, and not let the taliban organize and gain control.

Currently the issue is we have Karzai , who is ethnic pashtun and he cannot go against the taliban who adhere to pashtunwali and are mostly pashtuns. Their biggest fucking fear is the Northern Alliance coming to their village and changing their lifestyle. so use the NA to cleans the hot blooded ones and in a decade, all the hot shot Pashtun / Talibunnies are dead. Northern Alliance would have controlled major parts of the country and put the fear of god into the Pashtuns. That is when peace will truly arrive. Fight rage with rage and the hazaras and tajiks know how to deal personally with the Pashtuns. With US support which is a pittance in monetary terms, the NA will prevail and peace will finally come.

so basically your saying screw them..kill them all..and thats the end of it. no wonder this world continues to sink into the crapper. while we are at it lets take out every other nation and group that has a problem with us. :thumbsdown: