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zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
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Change food stamps so they can buy basic ingredients and raw foods only.

Eggs, milk, flour, sugar, yeast, 80% lean hamburger meat, chicken thighs and breast, raw veggies and fruit, etc. so those receiving the benefits are forced to cook to eat and the food they get isn't worth trading for cash/drugs/cigarettes.

Want to eat? Learn to cook. Heck, then you could even learn a skill and get a job as a cook.
I agree. These are the most expensive things in the supermarket, usually... and having more of them in your diet puts a much bigger dent in malnutrition/hunger than the processed crap in the aisles. The outside rim of the supermarket is where the good stuff is (minus most of the freezer section).
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
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Fact is the poverty rate was falling until the government declared war on poverty.

Yeah I remember pointing the out before.

Liberals seem to have an "interesting", although consistent, view on causality.

Apparently the war on poverty caused poverty to go down years before it started.

Just like Reaganomics is responsible for trends that started in the 1970s.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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Fact is the poverty rate was falling until the government declared war on poverty.
From the 1950s to the late 1960s early 1970s there were massive construction projects going on all over the US. When poverty leveled off in the early 1970s was when a lot of those construction projects were finished.

There was the interstate highway system, dam construction, bridges being built, rural electric co-op program,, which fueled a lot of that decrease in poverty. People from rural areas did not have to find jobs, as jobs came to them. With those jobs came job training.

Example - lake sam rayburn here in southeast Texas took 9 years to build. A massive levee had to be built, as well as a dam.

What happened in the late 1990s to cause poverty to drop I do not know. That was after NAFTA and GATT were signed.
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
76,577
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Where does the blame belong?

Failed education system?
Factories going overseas?
Lack of motivation?
Too many government handouts?

What can be done to fix the situation?

Job training?
Low cost college?
End government handouts?

As a general rule most people are lazy and will take the path of least resistance. How do you motivate someone that is comfortable working a part time job and drawing government aid?

How many of those people drawing aid want a better life, but are unable to find gainful employment?
I want a better life, am working towards it, and I dont get any welfare from Uncle Sam.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
76,577
9,703
126
Change food stamps so they can buy basic ingredients and raw foods only.

Eggs, milk, flour, sugar, yeast, 80% lean hamburger meat, chicken thighs and breast, raw veggies and fruit, etc. so those receiving the benefits are forced to cook to eat and the food they get isn't worth trading for cash/drugs/cigarettes.

Want to eat? Learn to cook. Heck, then you could even learn a skill and get a job as a cook.
They already have rules for food stamps. They've been ignored since the very beginning.

They buy stuff they arent supposed to, so the government started tracking sales. So now people sell their stamps. They outlawed the selling of stamps, so people just bought gift cards in the same stores they would end up buying beer and cigarettes.
There will always be away around any government regulation, because enforcing it eventually costs more than the benefit it was supposed to provide.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
76,577
9,703
126
Once you got your flat-screen, cable, AC, and steak the marginal utility of "nice things" becomes quite small.
I agree but the government doesnt pay based on marginal utility. They give you a free handout and trust you will use it according to their wishes.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
76,577
9,703
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Umm guys, those arguments didnt work way back when they were first coming up with all this welfare. They sure arent gonna work now that its an established institution and people have grown up with it.

If people wont listen to logic I'm not sure which direction we should go. Fear tactics always backfire. And emotion is what they use so we know thats not helpful.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,489
3,250
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You can go to any refugee camp in Africa and see how poverty and need create motivation. Most of the worlds great chefs grew up learning to cook in them. Most of the best CEOs in the world learned their business skills there. Poverty, misery, hopelessness, and want produce giants of men.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,812
192
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If people wont listen to logic I'm not sure which direction we should go. Fear tactics always backfire. And emotion is what they use so we know thats not helpful.
I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said "slavery is like holding a wolf by the ears."

I believe the same thing can be said for welfare. There is going to come a point in time where we can no longer afford to pay for welfare, but we can not abolish the system either.

Welfare is a catch 22. There are generations of welfare families out there that have no idea what it is like to work. People like that would be lost if forced off the system. But the government can not afford this tax-and-spend policy forever. Sooner or later the working class is going to run out of money.
 
May 13, 2009
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I remember when I was the rebel. Wouldn't do anything anyone told me. Now im the "old" guy with short hair that tells people they need to straighten up and get a job..
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
76,577
9,703
126
I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said "slavery is like holding a wolf by the ears."

I believe the same thing can be said for welfare. There is going to come a point in time where we can no longer afford to pay for welfare, but we can not abolish the system either.

Welfare is a catch 22. There are generations of welfare families out there that have no idea what it is like to work. People like that would be lost if forced off the system. But the government can not afford this tax-and-spend policy forever. Sooner or later the working class is going to run out of money.
And if they abolish the system the lower class is going to riot.
Either way its gonna look like Mad Max.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,310
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They already have rules for food stamps. They've been ignored since the very beginning.

They buy stuff they arent supposed to, so the government started tracking sales. So now people sell their stamps. They outlawed the selling of stamps, so people just bought gift cards in the same stores they would end up buying beer and cigarettes.
There will always be away around any government regulation, because enforcing it eventually costs more than the benefit it was supposed to provide.
Every store must label items that are eligible for food stamp purchase just like WIC. Those items will also be flagged in the computer. If an attempt is made to purchase an item outside the list with food stamps then the register will disallow the sale.

Businesses that try to game the system to allow people to buy items outside the list will be fined.

Gift cards will certainly not be on the list of items for sale.

The items available for purchase will be difficult to sell. How many drug dealers are going to trade crack for flour and sugar?

I'm all for helping people but not to the point where they can just live their lives in comfort and ease with little incentive to better themselves. Receiving government benefits should provide the bare necessities to get by and should be a pain in the ass to use.

I have cousins that have been raised on government assistance and now they've fallen into the same trap.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
Every store must label items that are eligible for food stamp purchase just like WIC. Those items will also be flagged in the computer. If an attempt is made to purchase an item outside the list with food stamps then the register will disallow the sale.

Businesses that try to game the system to allow people to buy items outside the list will be fined.

Gift cards will certainly not be on the list of items for sale.

The items available for purchase will be difficult to sell. How many drug dealers are going to trade crack for flour and sugar?

I'm all for helping people but not to the point where they can just live their lives in comfort and ease with little incentive to better themselves. Receiving government benefits should provide the bare necessities to get by and should be a pain in the ass to use.

I have cousins that have been raised on government assistance and now they've fallen into the same trap.
Good luck trying to get such a system in place. The left throws a fit when if we expect parents to actually care about the schooling of the children we are paying for.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2313807
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,812
192
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And if they abolish the system the lower class is going to riot.
Either way its gonna look like Mad Max.
I think the linked article in the OP said something like $2.4 million was sent to the town every month in food stamps alone. If you add in medicaid the price probably goes close to $3 million, maybe more?

Now multiple that across the entire US.

How can the working class afford to support that kind of system? Is the federal reserve print money out of thin air?
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
0
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Good luck trying to get such a system in place. The left throws a fit when if we expect parents to actually care about the schooling of the children we are paying for.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2313807
And you throw a fit anytime society changes away from the ideal farce portrayed on Leave It To Beaver, yet the changes still occur without delay anyway.

So there's little reason to think "good luck" is needed.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
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Every store must label items that are eligible for food stamp purchase just like WIC. Those items will also be flagged in the computer. If an attempt is made to purchase an item outside the list with food stamps then the register will disallow the sale.
I've seen this already.

If I go to the store this week I'll take photos of said labeled welfare food.

Some stores follow the rules, some don't there must be loopholes or something because you can probably shop until you drop in a Walmart with foodstamps. However smaller stores I've seen turn people down because they were trying to get certain cereals or something they weren't allowed to have.
 

thestrangebrew1

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2011
3,049
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A few things about food stamps, or at least CalFresh here in CA:

1. You can't buy hot foods ie fast food or even the cooked rotiserrie chicken in grocery stores.

2. you can't use them to buy gift cards at the grocery store. the selling of foodstamps is much harder now that they're using debt cards.

3. food stamps is extremely easy to get if you meet income limits. the government no longer cares about property, or how much is in your bank. all that matters is who you cook & eat with & how much income comes into the household.

4. criminals? got your back. unless you're a fleeing felon, or have a felony for just personal possession, you can get food stamps.

5. households on food stamps have the potential to eat healthier & better overall than your avg middle-class hh. but because the recipients take this for granted, they buy junk. CA spends tons of cash trying to educate recipients on buying healthy foods but recipients couldn't care less because its an endless stream of resources for them.

6. in CA, reporting every 3 months on income will be changing to semi-annual, which means that people can work seasonal jobs for half the year & still get food stamps without that income being counted.

The government is giving out food stamps basically. The idea behind this is that recipients will use these benefits at the local level, to help boost the local economy. In the central valley, where I live & work, something like 70% of the pop is on some sort of welfare program. For my job, I determine eligibility for these programs. this past winter has been the busiest I've ever seen.
I live in a very small community & I always see my clients at the grocery store buying cartfulls of meat & soda & chips. its frustrating knowing that they buy whatever they want, and I have to carefully budget my groceries for my family of 4.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
16,844
886
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<snip>I always see my clients at the grocery store buying cartfulls of meat & soda & chips. its frustrating knowing that they buy whatever they want, and I have to carefully budget my groceries for my family of 4.
This.

I work hard, save money for the raining days, and when I read stories like yours and in the op, it makes my blood boils.

Just like yesterday, I went to Kroger because they had meat on sale. Pork loin for $1.66/lb and chicken breasts for $.99/lb. I stocked them up and other on sale items to save money.

Why can't the people that on food stamps and other government freebie programs do any kind of budget or at least better themselves instead of staying at the bottom continually?
 

thestrangebrew1

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2011
3,049
175
106
I've seen this already.

If I go to the store this week I'll take photos of said labeled welfare food.

Some stores follow the rules, some don't there must be loopholes or something because you can probably shop until you drop in a Walmart with foodstamps. However smaller stores I've seen turn people down because they were trying to get certain cereals or something they weren't allowed to have.
WIC (women, infants & children or something like that) dictates to their clients what they can and can't buy with their coupons. At least in CA. With foodstamps, you can buy any cereal, but if you're using WIC, you can't buy cocoa puffs but you can buy cheerios for example. You can go absolutely nuts in Walmart on foodstamps.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,284
2
76
This has the potential to be like the health care industry and our higher education system. Where govt interjects itself into the market to help some people only to have the market's supply\demand curve broken by endless govt money. The result is higher costs and more people requiring govt help to purchase within that market.
This.

End result, as always, government demands more money and no one is above being held hostage for what the government demands.

So,... everybody gets gifted government cheese to buy X (in this case food), and the market selling X realizes they have individuals with $$$ to buy X and so they raise prices (tuition in case of student loan gubment involvement).... and then government needs to gift more money, which in turn raises prices of X.

Or they are just devaluing your money for anyone paying attention.
 

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