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marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,236
4
76
So you are saying that Obama is really the "Corporate Welfare President" :hmm:

Maybe if the Republicans had called him that instead Romney would be President :sneaky:
Maybe you noticed that the economy has never recovered from the disaster that was Bush?
Thank you GWB for all the people on food stamps.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
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Maybe you noticed that the economy has never recovered from the disaster that was Bush?
Thank you GWB for all the people on food stamps.
Actually I think everything goes back to collapse of the Internet bubble (ie the Clinton Bubble), which caused Bush to have to let the Real Estate bubble continue inflating (it started in 1997 under you guessed it Clinton).

So it seems to me what we really have is everything going back to the disaster that was Bill Clinton.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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How are you going to get at the root cause when food lobby spends money to ensure the root causes are never addressed.

I think you underestimate the power of lobby dollars as a matter of impacting policy.

And that is what we are discussing law and policy you cant reform welfare and get rid of the folks that abuse the system without changing the law and policy surrounding it. In your way is food lobby and their dollars.
Republicans have been trying to reform SNAP for some time now, while Democrats have largely opposed reforms. Are you saying the food lobby has Democrats in their back pocket?
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Actually I would think the root cause is people having kids they cannot feed.

This is even more true for WIC, which due to its rules, essentially only exists to give food to people who shouldn't be having kids.
Issue is is sometimes people have kids they can feed and then the situation changes and they cant any monger.

society is not ready to legislate who can have kids, maybe everyone should be able to put say the cost of raising kids to 18 into a trust to show proof they can sustain the childs needs for 18 years before they can procreate.

You should write your legislators and press for that see what happens. lol
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,310
175
106
Actually I think everything goes back to collapse of the Internet bubble (ie the Clinton Bubble), which caused Bush to have to let the Real Estate bubble continue inflating (it started in 1997 under you guessed it Clinton).

So it seems to me what we really have is everything going back to the disaster that was Bill Clinton.
No, you have to start at the source. Andrew Jackson was the first Democratic president so it all started with him.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Republicans have been trying to reform SNAP for some time now, while Democrats have largely opposed reforms. Are you saying the food lobby has Democrats in their back pocket?
I'm saying the food lobby has everyone in their pockets and I have yet to see a reform idea that does anything to address the issues were discussing in the thread.

Do you think politicians propose legislation they know has no way of passing just to be seen as feeling a certain way about issues?

I sure think they do, I think they do it all the time.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Maybe you noticed that the economy has never recovered from the disaster that was Bush?
Thank you GWB for all the people on food stamps.
I was hoping Obama would have fixed everything by now....maybe he will during his next 4 years, but I don't see any real effort in this area. Raising taxes appears to be his #1 priority. Blaming Bush is so passe...perhaps it's time for you to get a new schtick.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,897
638
126
I was hoping Obama would have fixed everything by now....maybe he will during his next 4 years, but I don't see any real effort in this area. Raising taxes appears to be his #1 priority. Blaming Bush is so passe...perhaps it's time for you to get a new schtick.
Fat chance of that happening...
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I'm saying the food lobby has everyone in their pockets and I have yet to see a reform idea that does anything to address the issues were discussing in the thread.

Do you think politicians propose legislation they know has no way of passing just to be seen as feeling a certain way about issues?

I sure think they do, I think they do it all the time.
Everyone? I don't think so. Republicans are drafting and backing the reform efforts...there are very few Dems supporting reform.

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/237327-dem-attempt-to-stop-food-stamp-cuts-is-defeated
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
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Issue is is sometimes people have kids they can feed and then the situation changes and they cant any monger.

society is not ready to legislate who can have kids, maybe everyone should be able to put say the cost of raising kids to 18 into a trust to show proof they can sustain the childs needs for 18 years before they can procreate.

You should write your legislators and press for that see what happens. lol
There is some truth to what you say for food stamps.

But for other programs like WIC there is none. If you are giving pregnant women food because they cannot feed themselves it is pretty safe to say it is not because "the situation changed".
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
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How does simply cutting the program funding do anyway with people gaming the system?
If the program exists to serve corporate interests. And you cut the program funding obviously the corporate interests will be less served :colbert:
 
Nov 30, 2006
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How does simply cutting the program funding do anyway with people gaming the system?
Sigh...did you not read the article. Republicans are trying to address common-sense areas for reform and Democrats are largely blocking those efforts.

Supporters of the farm bill cuts argued that the savings come from common-sense reforms and that those who actually qualify for food stamps based on income and assets would remain on the program.

The farm bill gets most of its savings, some $11 billion, by curtailing so-called “categorical eligibility” for food stamps. It aims to restrict the ability of states to allow people to qualify for food stamps by virtue of receiving non-cash anti-poverty benefits, including information booklets.

Another $4 billion comes from restricting the ability of states to sign people up for food stamps by giving them home heating assistance. That provision is included in the Senate-passed farm bill.

Critics say that states are abusing the “loophole” by giving people who do not have utility bills nominal amounts of heating assistance.
 
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lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Sigh...did you not read the article. Republicans are trying to address common-sense areas for reform and Democrats are blocking those efforts.

I did read it, I didn't think the proposed cuts did much in the way of curtailing abuse as outlined in the thread here.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
If the program exists to serve corporate interests. And you cut the program funding obviously the corporate interests will be less served :colbert:

That's true and I would weigh it against the secondary interests of the poor people being served.

I would for example back reforms that put lifetime caps on welfare and also didn't increase past say the second or third child.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
16,844
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Why would they if the government allows them to not bother? There is no incentive to budget. Food stamps is like cell phone minutes. They roll over. I mean, yea, you get a limited monthly amount, but take a HH of 5 people for example. With no income, in CA, they get $793/mo for groceries. For 5 people!! I budget $200/mo for my family of 4!
I have never been on any types of government freebie program so excuse my lack of knowledge. Are you saying SNAP is not "use it or lose it"? If you have some left over at the end of the month, you can add them up onto next month amount?

$200/month for 4? Yike. How do you do that? I thought I was pretty good for $150-$200/month just for me. And that did not count eating out, it was just for home cooking meals only.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
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That's true and I would weigh it against the secondary interests of the poor people being served.

I would for example back reforms that put lifetime caps on welfare and also didn't increase past say the second or third child.
My preferred method would be to change from a "need"-triggered system to an event-triggered system more akin to how unemployment is done.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
My preferred method would be to change from a "need"-triggered system to an event-triggered system more akin to how unemployment is done.
Id be open to that, my main point is as long as lobby has a say, neither of our ideas will get traction.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
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My preferred method would be to change from a "need"-triggered system to an event-triggered system more akin to how unemployment is done.
Isn't welfare an event triggered system already? It was born from the Great Depression.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I did read it, I didn't think the proposed cuts did much in the way of curtailing abuse as outlined in the thread here.
So...let me get this straight....you don't think this legislation would curtail abuse.

I guess it then follows that you don't consider it abuse when a person (with a income that doesn't qualify for food stamps) actually qualifies for food stamps because they happened to have received a non-cash anti-poverty benefit such as an information booklet. Or perhaps you don't consider it abuse when a person (with a income that doesn't qualify for food stamps) actually qualifies through a loophole when they receive nominal home heating assistance even though they do not have or pay any utility bills.

This is common sense reform legislation that Republicans are advocating and a lot of Democrats are blocking their effort. Please tell me again exactly how lobby money affects food stamp reform...I'm all ears. If this is truly the case, then it appears that a lot of Democrats are bought and paid for by the food lobby.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,321
2
0
The uber-wealthy moved all the nice middle class paying blue collar jobs overseas. It wasn't easy, they first had to buy off the politicians to make it happen. They are now taking shots at the nice middle class paying white collar jobs. What we have left in America is a growing pool of McJobs and dwindling pool of real jobs. Our corporate leaders and politicians have flushed our future down the toilet.
They had to. That's where all the money was going. People were warned this what would happen if we kept buying all that imported crap. Now it is politically convenient to blame corporations when corporations are just chasing the money. America demands people get paid a decent wage and have safe work environments but have no problem buying crap made in countries that pay atrocious wages and have very unsafe work environments. Blame it on corporations if that makes you feel better but we did this to ourselves.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
Isn't welfare an event triggered system already? It was born from the Great Depression.
I mean event-triggered like losing your job or becoming disabled.

As opposed to determining eligibility because you are poor.

The goal being to give benefits to people who are temporarily down on their luck instead of trying to have a lifestyle based on poor life choices.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I mean event-triggered like losing your job or becoming disabled.

As opposed to determining eligibility because you are poor.

The goal being to give benefits to people who are temporarily down on their luck instead of trying to have a lifestyle based on poor life choices.
And what do you do with all the people who made "poor life choices"?
 

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