US Appears to Have Essentially Kidnapped 5 Syrian Border Guards

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
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This seems all shades of Sketchy and has the mark of Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz all over it.

From the New York Times


June 28, 2003
Pentagon Delays Releasing 5 Syrians Hurt in U.S. Raid
By DOUGLAS JEHL and ERIC SCHMITT

ASHINGTON, June 27 ? The Defense Department has delayed the release of five Syrian border guards wounded last week in an American attack on an Iraqi convoy near the Syrian border, American officials said today.

This delay has come despite objections from Syria, the United States State Department and even American military officers on the ground, the officials said.

A State Department official said the Syrians could be freed as early as this weekend. But another administration official said that the State Department had wanted the Syrians handed over earlier this week, and that department officials believed the delay could harm relations with Syria.

Administration officials attributed the delay to civilians at the Pentagon who wanted the guards to be questioned more extensively. An official said the delay did not seem to be based on hard evidence that the Syrian guards had assisted the Iraqi convoy that was the target of the American attack.

According to Defense Department officials, the Pentagon has told the United States Central Command, which is in charge of American forces in Iraq, to avoid releasing the Syrian border guards until now. The Central Command has been ready to release the Syrians since Tuesday, the officials said. They said the defense secretary, Donald H. Rumsfeld, and his top aides wanted American forces on the ground to provide a detailed and convincing account of the attack that absolves Syria of any role in helping the convoy.

A Pentagon spokesman, Larry Di Rita, said in an interview tonight that the Defense Department had recently decided to free the Syrians. But he said bureaucratic delays at the Pentagon as well as the department's desire to sort out the facts of the attack from commanders in the field had held up their release.

"There may be people who are frustrated, but this was a complex operation with a lot of unusual aspects, and it has taken time to sort through it all," Mr. Di Rita said.

The Pentagon has yet to provide anything more than the sketchiest outline of the June 18 attack, in which helicopters, AC-130 gunships and ground troops, backed by Predator drones, struck a housing compound in a village not far from the Syrian border as well as the Iraqi convoy at a crossing point.

American officials have said the attack, carried out by Task Force 20, a Special Operations force, was based on information that the convoy was involved in an operation linked to fugitive Iraqi leaders. But they have not said whether they found anything to confirm their suspicions. A Defense Department official insisted the delay was not aimed at punishing the Syrian government, which the United States accused of allowing foreign fighters and weaponry to cross into Iraq during the war.

Mr. Di Rita told reporters that all five Syrians had been wounded in the American attack ? three serious enough to be taken to a hospital in Baghdad ? but that they were now together, recovering from their wounds. "It is our intention for them to go back to Syria," he said.

He declined to say how the Syrians had been wounded or whether American troops crossed into Syrian territory during the attack. Administration officials have said at least one vehicle destroyed in the raid was on the Syrian side of the border.

The Syrian protest was lodged by its foreign minister, Farouk al-Sharaa, who met in Damascus on June 19 with Elizabeth Dibble, the deputy chief of mission at the United States Embassy there.

In Syria's first public comment on the matter, the official Syrian news agency reported Wednesday that Syria was demanding "an explanation from the U.S. government" as well as "the return of the wounded soldiers for treatment in Syria in order to avoid any misunderstanding that might lead to an escalation neither side wants."

Most of the estimated 20 Iraqis detained in the in the raid have been released, the American officials said. Mr. Di Rita said today that the American authorities had so far determined that one Iraqi was killed, but he said it was possible that other Iraqis had been killed as well.

Pentagon officials, who alluded to the secret culture of the Special Operations unit, whose members include commandos from the Army's Delta Force, said they were having a hard time getting detailed reports from field commanders about exactly what had happened. They said they still could not say exactly who had been in the convoy.

A senior Defense Department official said there had been indications that Iraqis in the convoy were heading toward Syria and were communicating with people on the Syrian side of the border. The convoy was detected by American intelligence on June 18 just as reports of the capture of a top lieutenant to Saddam Hussein were becoming public, the official said. American commanders ordered the raid, he said, out of concern that the convoys might be carrying Iraqi fugitives worried about being betrayed by the lieutenant, Abid Hamid Mahmoud al-Tikriti.

In a diplomatic communiqué that is to be issued at the time of the transfer, the United States will emphasize to Syria its obligation to adhere to its promises to interdict Iraqi fugitives, an administration official said. But the official said a draft version of the communiqué did not suggest that Syria did anything wrong in the convoy incident.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | Help | Back to Top
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
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boo friggin hoo

tell the border guards to stop letting mercenaries leave their country destined to kill Americans and we won't hurt them
 

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: HappyGamer2
lets face it bush and the boys want war with about half of the middle east.

No doubt about it. If these clowns are elected again, I will completely lose faith in the people of this country. The slogan should be "Elect anyone besides these 2 criminals". I'd vote for David Duke and Noam Chomsky.

 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
What right do we have to keep Syrian guards in custody? We almost killed them. Now we feel we are within our rights to do just about anything... Where is the UN to sanction the US? This is starting to make me mad. I want us to go by the international rule of law as we do whatever it is that we're doing in Iraq.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: LunarRay
What right do we have to keep Syrian guards in custody? We almost killed them. Now we feel we are within our rights to do just about anything... Where is the UN to sanction the US? This is starting to make me mad. I want us to go by the international rule of law as we do whatever it is that we're doing in Iraq.

We have the right to hold them until they are absolved of any guilt. Who says they weren't being paid to allow the iraqi's through the border? YOU don't know this info and neither do I. People need to quit getting their panties in a bunch everytime the press decides to tell one of these kinds of stories. Shiz happens, mistakes are made, and we are only human but to definitively say these 5 people should be turned over without some questions being answered would be asinine. Why did the Iraqi convoy choose that border crossing? ;)

I don't really much care about this subject but there was possibly a side you people weren't really thinking about so I felt the need to point it out. Wether or not it is the case has yet to be determined;)

CkG
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: LunarRay
What right do we have to keep Syrian guards in custody? We almost killed them. Now we feel we are within our rights to do just about anything... Where is the UN to sanction the US? This is starting to make me mad. I want us to go by the international rule of law as we do whatever it is that we're doing in Iraq.

We have the right to hold them until they are absolved of any guilt. Who says they weren't being paid to allow the iraqi's through the border? YOU don't know this info and neither do I. People need to quit getting their panties in a bunch everytime the press decides to tell one of these kinds of stories. Shiz happens, mistakes are made, and we are only human but to definitively say these 5 people should be turned over without some questions being answered would be asinine. Why did the Iraqi convoy choose that border crossing? ;)

I don't really much care about this subject but there was possibly a side you people weren't really thinking about so I felt the need to point it out. Wether or not it is the case has yet to be determined;)

CkG
so you wouldnt mind if US soldiers were arrested for... something you cant know about... and not returned untill ... things are cleared up

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: LunarRay
What right do we have to keep Syrian guards in custody? We almost killed them. Now we feel we are within our rights to do just about anything... Where is the UN to sanction the US? This is starting to make me mad. I want us to go by the international rule of law as we do whatever it is that we're doing in Iraq.

We have the right to hold them until they are absolved of any guilt. Who says they weren't being paid to allow the iraqi's through the border? YOU don't know this info and neither do I. People need to quit getting their panties in a bunch everytime the press decides to tell one of these kinds of stories. Shiz happens, mistakes are made, and we are only human but to definitively say these 5 people should be turned over without some questions being answered would be asinine. Why did the Iraqi convoy choose that border crossing? ;)

I don't really much care about this subject but there was possibly a side you people weren't really thinking about so I felt the need to point it out. Wether or not it is the case has yet to be determined;)

CkG
so you wouldnt mind if US soldiers were arrested for... something you cant know about... and not returned untill ... things are cleared up

rolleye.gif


In this situation if it was the other way around - sure. Why shouldn't they be held for questioning? You can't just let them go because they are military. The problem is "why" and you don't know if there is a "why" or not so you people getting your panties in a bunch is just plain stupid.

CkG
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: LunarRay
What right do we have to keep Syrian guards in custody? We almost killed them. Now we feel we are within our rights to do just about anything... Where is the UN to sanction the US? This is starting to make me mad. I want us to go by the international rule of law as we do whatever it is that we're doing in Iraq.

We have the right to hold them until they are absolved of any guilt. Who says they weren't being paid to allow the iraqi's through the border? YOU don't know this info and neither do I. People need to quit getting their panties in a bunch everytime the press decides to tell one of these kinds of stories. Shiz happens, mistakes are made, and we are only human but to definitively say these 5 people should be turned over without some questions being answered would be asinine. Why did the Iraqi convoy choose that border crossing? ;)

I don't really much care about this subject but there was possibly a side you people weren't really thinking about so I felt the need to point it out. Wether or not it is the case has yet to be determined;)

CkG
so you wouldnt mind if US soldiers were arrested for... something you cant know about... and not returned untill ... things are cleared up

rolleye.gif


In this situation if it was the other way around - sure. Why shouldn't they be held for questioning? You can't just let them go because they are military. The problem is "why" and you don't know if there is a "why" or not so you people getting your panties in a bunch is just plain stupid.

CkG
exactly
we should know why, that what worries me, it just looks bad
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: LunarRay
What right do we have to keep Syrian guards in custody? We almost killed them. Now we feel we are within our rights to do just about anything... Where is the UN to sanction the US? This is starting to make me mad. I want us to go by the international rule of law as we do whatever it is that we're doing in Iraq.

We have the right to hold them until they are absolved of any guilt. Who says they weren't being paid to allow the iraqi's through the border? YOU don't know this info and neither do I. People need to quit getting their panties in a bunch everytime the press decides to tell one of these kinds of stories. Shiz happens, mistakes are made, and we are only human but to definitively say these 5 people should be turned over without some questions being answered would be asinine. Why did the Iraqi convoy choose that border crossing? ;)

I don't really much care about this subject but there was possibly a side you people weren't really thinking about so I felt the need to point it out. Wether or not it is the case has yet to be determined;)

CkG
so you wouldnt mind if US soldiers were arrested for... something you cant know about... and not returned untill ... things are cleared up

rolleye.gif


In this situation if it was the other way around - sure. Why shouldn't they be held for questioning? You can't just let them go because they are military. The problem is "why" and you don't know if there is a "why" or not so you people getting your panties in a bunch is just plain stupid.

CkG
exactly
we should know why, that what worries me, it just looks bad

See - now reading the latest news - we handed them over. No harm, no foul ;) They must have not done anything "wrong" then;)

Looks don't matter in cases such as these. If someone has done something to be held, they should be held no matter how "bad" it looks. And this incessant whining about wanting immediate proof/details/info is getting old. CNN had to sit on the centrifuge story for a week to get it through security. Not everything can be "transparant" - we can all wish it to be so, but whatever info we have - the "enemy" has too ;)

CkG
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: LunarRay
What right do we have to keep Syrian guards in custody? We almost killed them. Now we feel we are within our rights to do just about anything... Where is the UN to sanction the US? This is starting to make me mad. I want us to go by the international rule of law as we do whatever it is that we're doing in Iraq.

We have the right to hold them until they are absolved of any guilt. Who says they weren't being paid to allow the iraqi's through the border? YOU don't know this info and neither do I. People need to quit getting their panties in a bunch everytime the press decides to tell one of these kinds of stories. Shiz happens, mistakes are made, and we are only human but to definitively say these 5 people should be turned over without some questions being answered would be asinine. Why did the Iraqi convoy choose that border crossing? ;)

I don't really much care about this subject but there was possibly a side you people weren't really thinking about so I felt the need to point it out. Wether or not it is the case has yet to be determined;)

CkG

So now we go a slushing into the snows of Syria and take some Syrian citizens doing Syria's business and we'll keep them till we determine if they are innocent.... marvelous!!! What we do know is that they were in Syria.... and we were in Syria... What provision of UN Resolution Permits us to invade Syria?
The Iraqi Convoy.... Assuming it was Iraqi, and not the sisters of St. John The Baptist returning to the nunnery, can choose whatever route they wish... or has the liberty to move been eliminated.?!
We (The Occupiers) apparently do not know with reasonable certainty who or what the convoy (?) contained in any event... seems strange to not know what or who you blow up in a sovereign nation... at least to me...

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: LunarRay
What right do we have to keep Syrian guards in custody? We almost killed them. Now we feel we are within our rights to do just about anything... Where is the UN to sanction the US? This is starting to make me mad. I want us to go by the international rule of law as we do whatever it is that we're doing in Iraq.

We have the right to hold them until they are absolved of any guilt. Who says they weren't being paid to allow the iraqi's through the border? YOU don't know this info and neither do I. People need to quit getting their panties in a bunch everytime the press decides to tell one of these kinds of stories. Shiz happens, mistakes are made, and we are only human but to definitively say these 5 people should be turned over without some questions being answered would be asinine. Why did the Iraqi convoy choose that border crossing? ;)

I don't really much care about this subject but there was possibly a side you people weren't really thinking about so I felt the need to point it out. Wether or not it is the case has yet to be determined;)

CkG

So now we go a slushing into the snows of Syria and take some Syrian citizens doing Syria's business and we'll keep them till we determine if they are innocent.... marvelous!!! What we do know is that they were in Syria.... and we were in Syria... What provision of UN Resolution Permits us to invade Syria?
The Iraqi Convoy.... Assuming it was Iraqi, and not the sisters of St. John The Baptist returning to the nunnery, can choose whatever route they wish... or has the liberty to move been eliminated.?!
We (The Occupiers) apparently do not know with reasonable certainty who or what the convoy (?) contained in any event... seems strange to not know what or who you blow up in a sovereign nation... at least to me...

Yeah, we aimlessly wander around shooting people and holding them
rolleye.gif
Come on - I thought you were smarter than that? The sky isn't falling;) There was an attack mission that got some people who *may* not have had anything to do with it caught in the middle.

CkG
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
CAD,
Yeah, we aimlessly wander around shooting people and holding them Come on - I thought you were smarter than that? The sky isn't falling There was an attack mission that got some people who *may* not have had anything to do with it caught in the middle.
********

Well ....not aimlessly... it seems. But, shooting and holding, apparently so.. In Syria... Syrians ought to be able to go about their business with out being shot... unless we have somehow secured the right to prosecute our objectives in other sovereign nations.. Have we? I've not heard about it Yet!.... "I thought you were smarter than that?" What's a "that" and I'll let you know.
 

Warin

Senior member
Sep 6, 2001
270
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Yeah, we aimlessly wander around shooting people and holding them
rolleye.gif
Come on - I thought you were smarter than that? The sky isn't falling;) There was an attack mission that got some people who *may* not have had anything to do with it caught in the middle.

CkG


Ummm... I have checked every major news outlet that I can find, and to the best of my knowledge, through my research, the United States is not currently at war with Syria. So how can any incursion into Syria be all right? Let alone holding members of the Syrian border patrol/military be anything other than a hostile act?

I think your white hat has fallen over your eyes, my friend :)
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Warin
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Yeah, we aimlessly wander around shooting people and holding them
rolleye.gif
Come on - I thought you were smarter than that? The sky isn't falling;) There was an attack mission that got some people who *may* not have had anything to do with it caught in the middle.

CkG


Ummm... I have checked every major news outlet that I can find, and to the best of my knowledge, through my research, the United States is not currently at war with Syria. So how can any incursion into Syria be all right? Let alone holding members of the Syrian border patrol/military be anything other than a hostile act?

I think your white hat has fallen over your eyes, my friend :)

No we aren't at war with Syria and no one said we were. Seems to me that every report I have read has said "toward the Syrian border" and "struck a housing compound in a village not far from the Syrian border as well as the Iraqi convoy at a crossing point." - yeah - really sounds like incursions into syria
rolleye.gif
Some of the fighting might have crossed the border though. No wool over my eyes, even though you are trying to sprinkle blood where there was no wound ;):D

CkG
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
Why isn't anyone demanding to know exactly who we killed? The convoy survivors were released, and our best excuse was "yeah we thought it was Saddam"

WTF is that? The Syrian patrol might have recognized the convoy as a group of refugees and tried to keep them from getting killed. Heaven knows we didn't do anything to dispell that notion.
 

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,700
1
91
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Why isn't anyone demanding to know exactly who we killed? The convoy survivors were released, and our best excuse was "yeah we thought it was Saddam"

WTF is that? The Syrian patrol might have recognized the convoy as a group of refugees and tried to keep them from getting killed. Heaven knows we didn't do anything to dispell that notion.

(Foreign) Life is cheap nowadays.

Andy
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Gaard
CADkindaGUY - <<No harm, no foul >>

subjective

True but what would you people be doing if those guards were let go only to later find out they were Al-Queda operatives or were helping Iraqi leaders escape? You'd be screaming bloody hell. "Bush let em go - he didn't even check them out" Boo Frickin Hoo. You people whine no matter what happens.

CkG
 

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,700
1
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True but what would you people be doing if those guards were let go only to later find out they were Al-Queda operatives or were helping Iraqi leaders escape? You'd be screaming bloody hell. "Bush let em go - he didn't even check them out" Boo Frickin Hoo. You people whine no matter what happens.

Well, checking them out is fine. I have no idea of the details of this - so I'm speaking in example rather than by fact here - but ambushing them (ie using deadly force) without very good reason is not a good substitue in that case.

You're right in thinking that I'd be upset if OBL slipped past (not necessarily with the US though) - but I'd be a lot more upset if once a month a truck load of civillians got blown/shot up because of the methods that are employed in tracking him down.

Cheers,

Andy



 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
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Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
CADkindaGUY - <<No harm, no foul >>

subjective

True but what would you people be doing if those guards were let go only to later find out they were Al-Queda operatives or were helping Iraqi leaders escape? You'd be screaming bloody hell. "Bush let em go - he didn't even check them out" Boo Frickin Hoo. You people whine no matter what happens.

CkG

If they were in Syria then "Boo.........." awh... shucks .... Don't you care at all about international law?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
CADkindaGUY - <<No harm, no foul >>

subjective

True but what would you people be doing if those guards were let go only to later find out they were Al-Queda operatives or were helping Iraqi leaders escape? You'd be screaming bloody hell. "Bush let em go - he didn't even check them out" Boo Frickin Hoo. You people whine no matter what happens.

CkG

If they were in Syria then "Boo.........." awh... shucks .... Don't you care at all about international law?


Only if someone other than the US violates it, it would seem.