Urgent (Black Fr): $2k High End Gaming / Heavy Use Build

[biostud]

Thanks for the info. I doubt if I'll ever run Tri SLI, so thats a non issue.

The main thing for me is, should I go for an Asrock Extreme 4 / 6 model or a Asus Deluxe / Extreme model. The Asus ones may be an overkill, just need to understand the pros and cons.

If you don't know what you're paying for, you don't need it.

All the X99 boards have the same basic features, so what you have to consider is what features do you need and if you want to pay for features you're not going to use.

What I wanted:

Double spacing between x16 slots. (Better aiflow in CF/SLI)
Dual NIC
M.2 x4 3.0 slot
Good sound
8x Ram slots

What I didn't need:

tri or quad SLI/CF
Wi-fi
Extreme overclocking
Extra storage connections

So I ended up with the Asrock X99X, but I could have chosen the Extreme6 as well, but the extra gaming features led me to by the Killer, even though I doubt therer's any difference for me, since I only game casually.

 

[Geeksmirage]

If you don't know what you're paying for, you don't need it.

All the X99 boards have the same basic features, so what you have to consider is what features do you need and if you want to pay for features you're not going to use.

What I wanted:

Double spacing between x16 slots. (Better aiflow in CF/SLI)
Dual NIC
M.2 x4 3.0 slot
Good sound
8x Ram slots

What I didn't need:

tri or quad SLI/CF
Wi-fi
Extreme overclocking
Extra storage connections

So I ended up with the Asrock X99X, but I could have chosen the Extreme6 as well, but the extra gaming features led me to by the Killer, even though I doubt therer's any difference for me, since I only game casually.

That is totally true, if you dont know what ure paying for, you dont need it.

What I want:
8x Ram slots
Extra storage connections (The more, the better. I already use up all 6.)
M.2 x4 3.0 slot
Wi-fi (Maybe or may get a PCI Card)
Good sound (Maybe or may get a PCI Card)

What I didn't need:
Extreme overclocking
tri or quad SLI/CF

Whats the advantage of a Dual NIC?

 

[DigDog]

ram stuffhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqThn3C-zg4

gskill came out back in the DDR days with super-low-latency kits at exorbitant prices, and for a few years were a minor and hard to find brand with superb kits, at huge prices.
then they started putting blinking lights on their ram, making rock-bottom DDR2 sticks, always putting the product in the same family, both good and mediocre.

i've only ever owned one set of ram by them, but their marketing leaves me perplexed. i'd rather go with a serious brand, like crucial, or corsair.

this doesn't mean i think they are bad - i just have a funny feeling about them and that turns me off. but then again, if they are cheap, and you have warranty, why not?

 

[Geeksmirage]

gskill came out back in the DDR days with super-low-latency kits at exorbitant prices, and for a few years were a minor and hard to find brand with superb kits, at huge prices.
then they started putting blinking lights on their ram, making rock-bottom DDR2 sticks, always putting the product in the same family, both good and mediocre.

i've only ever owned one set of ram by them, but their marketing leaves me perplexed. i'd rather go with a serious brand, like crucial, or corsair.

this doesn't mean i think they are bad - i just have a funny feeling about them and that turns me off. but then again, if they are cheap, and you have warranty, why not?

The only -ve Ive had with Gskill is that timing issues I had when buying essentially the same stick. But that could be my fault.

In ur last post, you recommended against crucial, now you recommend it as a serious brand ... Im not sure if Crucial is good or not ..

I agree that RAM brands dont matter THAT much. As long as its a goodish brand and has warranty, then as you said, why not ?

 

[mfenn]

The D14 is supreme amongst air coolers, unfortunately for me I am averse to their color scheme. One day I will end up with one and see if I can equal the performance of their coffee colored fans with something more pleasing to the eye. yet the H100 bests it by a small margin.

The Noctua fans color scheme is so that you can your "street cred" amongst enthusiasts of course!

It looks like the H110 (not shown in the Tom's test) may have a significant edge over the H100 in a heavily stressed situations.

True, but they also didn't test the new D15, which is right there with the H110.

 

[Geeksmirage]

The Noctua fans color scheme is so that you can your "street cred" amongst enthusiasts of course!



True, but they also didn't test the new D15, which is right there with the H110.

So my understanding is the H100i has fan control but the H110 is significantly quieter. That would make the 110 better in my book?

Also, would the Corsair 750D / 780T be able to handle the larger radiator of the 110?

 

[mfenn]

gskill came out back in the DDR days with super-low-latency kits at exorbitant prices, and for a few years were a minor and hard to find brand with superb kits, at huge prices.
then they started putting blinking lights on their ram, making rock-bottom DDR2 sticks, always putting the product in the same family, both good and mediocre.

i've only ever owned one set of ram by them, but their marketing leaves me perplexed. i'd rather go with a serious brand, like crucial, or corsair.

this doesn't mean i think they are bad - i just have a funny feeling about them and that turns me off. but then again, if they are cheap, and you have warranty, why not?

At the end of the day, there are only 3 companies that actually make DRAM: Hynix, Samsung, and Micron (aka Crucial). Hynix doesn't sell consumer (non ECC) modules directly, so unless you're buying Samsung or Crucial DIMMs, you're buying from a third party module assembler.

There's nothing wrong with that, but I mention it because there is really very little difference between the big DIMM module manufacturers these days. You can get a bad kit from anyone, that's just luck of the draw.

I usually go for whatever is least expensive from a big name. Right now that happens to be Crucial Ballistix Sport on DDR4. They have a marginal advantage because they get to pick the top X% of DRAM before it even gets resold, but really that doesn't matter as much as the final price in my opinion.

 

[mfenn]

If you don't know what you're paying for, you don't need it.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

This is the exact right thought process when buying a motherboard. Figure out what you need, go to Newegg and filter by those components, sort by lowest price, and pick the first one from the big 4.

OP, that's how I came up with my recommendation of the ASRock X99 Extreme4 for you. It met the criteria you had elucidated at the time cost the least.

The only thing it doesn't do is the new Wi-Fi requirement, but you seem to be on the fence about that. I would recommend going wired if at all possible. You can have the most amazing machine in the world, but it's kind of useless for most modern tasks if it can't get a reliable connection to the Internet.

 

[mfenn]

So my understanding is the H100i has fan control but the H110 is significantly quieter. That would make the 110 better in my book?

No, the H100i is better for you because it costs less and the purpose of the fan control is to make it as quiet as you want it.

Also, would the Corsair 750D / 780T be able to handle the larger radiator of the 110?

Yes, they can both handle 280mm radiators.

 

[mfenn]

1. GPU: I totally agree that 1GPU aka 970 is enough. Why EVGA over other brands?

Because it was tied for the lowest cost.

2. CPU: I understand that "multitasking" means you need RAM space. Im simply going for extra RAM with 32GB and im all set there.

My big question comes down to 5820k or the 5960k as the 5930 doesnt really offer me anything too much.

Yes, it is an overkill. But is it worth putting in ~$400 now vs. having to spend on a new CPU in 2-3 years or putting in $1k now and not having to worry?

Also, playing devils advocate? In what scenarios would one go for those extra cores? Video processing etc?

The false dilemma that you're creating here is between the lower cost processor+need upgrade and more expensive processor+no upgrade. That's simply not a true scenario unless you massively change your use case (like, you start doing video production work as a job). Like I said before, you aren't multitasking, you are rapidly switching between single tasks. Unless you start doing video work, those single tasks will not need (or benefit from) and 8-core processor.

4. RAM: I see everyone recommending Crucial Ballistix Sport. Is it simply because its about $50-$100 less than the rest?

Yes, DRAM is very much all the same, so you go for the least cost among good brands. Crucial owns the DRAM fab, so they have a natural advantage right now.

5. PSU: This is a great price. Its the older model, should that matter? Any reason to recommend this brand over Antecs or Enermax?

I don't think the Capstone is really that much older than the Enermax. Newegg might just flag it as "older" because there is a modular version out there. It's a quality Super Flower unit, nothing to worry about there.

 

[DigDog]

i messed up massively.

lets see if i can pull myself out of the hole:

i dont like the fact that a serious company started selling both low end kits at discount prices and putting led on their ram, while keeping these product in the same family as their top class ram.

i messed up between gskill and crucial because i'm doing the dullest job possible and my brain is AFK.

 

[Geeksmirage]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

This is the exact right thought process when buying a motherboard. Figure out what you need, go to Newegg and filter by those components, sort by lowest price, and pick the first one from the big 4.

OP, that's how I came up with my recommendation of the ASRock X99 Extreme4 for you. It met the criteria you had elucidated at the time cost the least.

The only thing it doesn't do is the new Wi-Fi requirement, but you seem to be on the fence about that. I would recommend going wired if at all possible. You can have the most amazing machine in the world, but it's kind of useless for most modern tasks if it can't get a reliable connection to the Internet.

I think I just may be mentally biased, since I havent actually heard of AsRock before (!!!!). Asus has always been reliable and Gigabyte too.

Right now, I may not have an option because:
1. It depends on what goes on sale tomo.
2. My friend at Intel got back to me. They have brilliant prices! And combos with mobo, RAM etc. So I'll go with whatever I get from them.

Wifi is just a good to have thing. I always use Wired, Wifi is good incase I havent wired my printer etc. So I just need to remember to get a Wifi card.

Whats way more imp is the max number of SATA Ports, M2 X194, USB Ports etc.

For the Cooler, H100i is better for you because it costs less and the purpose of the fan control is to make it as quiet as you want it. Cost is always good, but the diff is not that much, for a part that you wont really replace.
In what cases is the H110 actually better?

 

[mfenn]

Wifi is good incase I havent wired my printer etc. So I just need to remember to get a Wifi card.

This doesn't make any sense really. Your printer would be wirelessly connected to the router, which then bridges the wireless network onto the wired network where your computer sits.

Cost is always good, but the diff is not that much, for a part that you wont really replace.
In what cases is the H110 actually better?

If you say "well cost doesn't matter" on 3-4 components, then you end up with a $3000 machine that performs the same as a $2200 one. So I like to keep good price discipline everywhere.

The H110 is better if you want to clock your CPU to the moon and need maximum heat dissipation. It doesn't matter for moderate overclocks.

 

[Geeksmirage]

Because it was tied for the lowest cost.



The false dilemma that you're creating here is between the lower cost processor+need upgrade and more expensive processor+no upgrade. That's simply not a true scenario unless you massively change your use case (like, you start doing video production work as a job). Like I said before, you aren't multitasking, you are rapidly switching between single tasks. Unless you start doing video work, those single tasks will not need (or benefit from) and 8-core processor.



Yes, DRAM is very much all the same, so you go for the least cost among good brands. Crucial owns the DRAM fab, so they have a natural advantage right now.



I don't think the Capstone is really that much older than the Enermax. Newegg might just flag it as "older" because there is a modular version out there. It's a quality Super Flower unit, nothing to worry about there.

CPU, since im getting an insane discount, even thought I may not need it, I may wind up paying a similar or slightly higher price for the 5960, so will budget it out once I get all the details, combos etc.

DRAM, I agree. Will get the cheapest, relatively decent clock speed (2133, 2400).

Read up in details about PSUs. Like you mentioned, Super Flower stuff should be good. The Rosewill 750W has an awesome deal on it, will wait and see tomo if the EVGA or Corsair one has a sale.
The issue is that I need much higher wattage. In a basic current use scenario, especially if I make a FreeNAS type thing in my computer, I wind up using ~772W acc to Extreme Power Supply. In that case, with a 20-30% buffer. I should get a 900W+ PSU.

 

[crashtech]

The Noctua fans color scheme is so that you can your "street cred" amongst enthusiasts of course!



True, but they also didn't test the new D15, which is right there with the H110.

That D15 is a mighty cooler indeed, thanks for the link.

 

[Geeksmirage]

This doesn't make any sense really. Your printer would be wirelessly connected to the router, which then bridges the wireless network onto the wired network where your computer sits.



If you say "well cost doesn't matter" on 3-4 components, then you end up with a $3000 machine that performs the same as a $2200 one. So I like to keep good price discipline everywhere.

The H110 is better if you want to clock your CPU to the moon and need maximum heat dissipation. It doesn't matter for moderate overclocks.

Hehe, yeah ur right on the cost doesnt matter much part means that if I pay $1500 or $1700, it doesnt matter. The main thing is, that I should get something that works well for it does.

Yeah, im not a hardcore overclocker, so the H100i it is then.

 

[Geeksmirage]

its Good Choice too for budget $2k

Not sure if thats sarcasm or a compliment

 

[mfenn]

Read up in details about PSUs. Like you mentioned, Super Flower stuff should be good. The Rosewill 750W has an awesome deal on it, will wait and see tomo if the EVGA or Corsair one has a sale.
The issue is that I need much higher wattage. In a basic current use scenario, especially if I make a FreeNAS type thing in my computer, I wind up using ~772W acc to Extreme Power Supply. In that case, with a 20-30% buffer. I should get a 900W+ PSU.

Power supply calculators are generally inaccurate, and Extreme's is one of the worst offenders. There's no way your PC will get close to 500W, much less 772W.

Here's what an overclocked Ivy Bridge-E PSU draws with a GTX 970: 300W. Even if you manage to double the TDP of your CPU via overclocking, you're looking at a 430W machine.

 

[Geeksmirage]

Power supply calculators are generally inaccurate, and Extreme's is one of the worst offenders. There's no way your PC will get close to 500W, much less 772W.

Here's what an overclocked Ivy Bridge-E PSU draws with a GTX 970: 300W. Even if you manage to double the TDP of your CPU via overclocking, you're looking at a 430W machine.

Dang, thats way lesser. I'll try out some other calculators too. However, you are definitely right, that my base rig wont take as much power. However, I may build a software raid in the same box and I otherwise have some 4-5 legacy HDDs as well. So was trying to optimize for that.

I did order a 1k PSU yest. Let me finish building it all, if it takes considerably less power, I may return it and get something cheaper / lesser wattage.

 

[nsafreak]

Dang, thats way lesser. I'll try out some other calculators too. However, you are definitely right, that my base rig wont take as much power. However, I may build a software raid in the same box and I otherwise have some 4-5 legacy HDDs as well. So was trying to optimize for that.

I did order a 1k PSU yest. Let me finish building it all, if it takes considerably less power, I may return it and get something cheaper / lesser wattage.

Of all the components in a PC nowadays the hard drives take the least amount of power, well aside from maybe the fans. Your average hard drive takes about 3-4 watts (maybe) when it's running, less when it's idle. The only reason I would ever recommend a 1000+ watt PSU would be if somebody was building a quad SLI/CrossFire system with four GTX 980s or four R9 290Xs. Your use case simply does not warrant it, return it and get a quality 550 watt (maybe 600 watt) power supply.

 

[Geeksmirage]

Of all the components in a PC nowadays the hard drives take the least amount of power, well aside from maybe the fans. Your average hard drive takes about 3-4 watts (maybe) when it's running, less when it's idle. The only reason I would ever recommend a 1000+ watt PSU would be if somebody was building a quad SLI/CrossFire system with four GTX 980s or four R9 290Xs. Your use case simply does not warrant it, return it and get a quality 550 watt (maybe 600 watt) power supply.

Hmm, Very interesting.
So are all these calculators completely wrong?

For calculators, Ive checked: Newegg, Coolermaster, Asus, Extreme etc and I get wildly different numbers. However, they all seem to put my system at atleast 600-750W. Overclocked Processor / RAM, 1 GTX 970, 6 HDDs, 10 USB Devices etc. Fyi, I understand that all USB devices may not pull power directly.

 

[crashtech]

I probably advocate more PSU headroom just as a general principle than some other respected members, but 1KW is pretty much reserved for max effort multi-GPU max-overclocked CPU setups. I don't know exactly what your final config consists of, but if it is single GPU with a sane OC, it probably doesn't need more than a 620W PSU and that even leaves room to grow, imo.

 

[Cerb]

Hmm, Very interesting.
So are all these calculators completely wrong?

No, just most of them.

If a PSU says it's 500W on the side, what assurance do you have that it isn't a 350W rebadged? So, they exaggerate needs, to account for varying PSU quality, up to the point of rating a PSU by peak only, or lying.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014...0_gaming_4g_video_card_review/10#.VHuA9a7mTlY

A quality 500W will have some headroom, even, and 450W would probably do, but 550-600W, to account for peak currents and overclocking, might not necessarily be bad (or, if a higher-wattage good PSU is on sale).

 

[mfenn]

No, just most of them.

If a PSU says it's 500W on the side, what assurance do you have that it isn't a 350W rebadged? So, they exaggerate needs, to account for varying PSU quality, up to the point of rating a PSU by peak only, or lying.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014...0_gaming_4g_video_card_review/10#.VHuA9a7mTlY

A quality 500W will have some headroom, even, and 450W would probably do, but 550-600W, to account for peak currents and overclocking, might not necessarily be bad (or, if a higher-wattage good PSU is on sale).

:thumbsup:

If you're a PSU calculator provider it's in your interest to over-estimate because people aren't likely to complain if they bought a PSU that's too big, but they will definite badmouth your calculator if they end up getting one that's too small. They're unlikely to ever know that they spent too much money up front, and continue to spent too much money via low efficiency. We're a little different here because we look at actual measurements of similar configurations.

And it goes without saying that you should not trust a PSU power calculator made by someone who manufactures or sells PSUs. They have a vested interest in getting you to buy the bigger unit.

 

[escrow4]

gskill came out back in the DDR days with super-low-latency kits at exorbitant prices, and for a few years were a minor and hard to find brand with superb kits, at huge prices.
then they started putting blinking lights on their ram, making rock-bottom DDR2 sticks, always putting the product in the same family, both good and mediocre.

i've only ever owned one set of ram by them, but their marketing leaves me perplexed. i'd rather go with a serious brand, like crucial, or corsair.

this doesn't mean i think they are bad - i just have a funny feeling about them and that turns me off. but then again, if they are cheap, and you have warranty, why not?

I've switched entirely to G-Skill both DDR4 and DDR3. Used to use Kingston exclusively, but now I strongly recommend G-Skill - kits have been rock solid. And my main parts store doesn't do Kingston for some reason. They or Patriot are very good. For mobos, I'd only pick between Gigabyte or Asrock. Both are decent. Never bought an MSI board, and only had a single Asus board.