Urgent (Black Fr): $2k High End Gaming / Heavy Use Build

[vailr]

[Unboxing] Gigabyte X99-UD4, Core i7-5820k, Crucial DDR4 Memory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IACh6naz3M0
In another video, the author also shows installation of OSX Yosemite.
I'd probably recommend: this board/CPU/memory combo + one GTX970.
Then maybe consider later adding a 2nd GTX970 card, if really warranted.

 

[crashtech]

What would you say to the NZXT Kraken X61 106.1 vs the H110?

I haven't seen them head-to-head. Both have twin 140mm fans and similar size and thickness of radiator. Maybe someone who has used the Kraken will respond, but I think their performance would be similar.

 

[mfenn]

i cannot approve of this. there is no consumer-level pc today that will run fine with multiple games running on the background. i can't even begin to imagine the framerate drops when playing a game and having so many other processes underneath.

I agree with this. When you're running multiple heavy DX applications at the same time, you're going to hit all sorts of performance corner cases that were never tested for. Mostly driver and game bugs.

Also, I wouldn't get too bought into the marketing of closed loop coolers (CLCs). CLCs are really nothing more than air coolers which have their heatsink fins slightly relocated and use liquid instead of phase change heatpipes. They don't have the sheer heat removal capacity of a full custom loop. They have their place, but you should be realistic about their performance.

Anyway, I can't really approve of the latest build posted by the OP. It's straight up wasting money on the CPU and motherboard. Here's what I would recommend:

i7 5820K $390
ASRock X99 Extreme4 $186 AR
Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR3 2400 32GB $399
EVGA GTX 970 $330 - 4 display support, add a smaller secondary card for additional monitors should you need them
Reuse 840 EVO 1TB $0
Reuse HDD's $0
Reuse ODD $0
Rosewill Capstone 750W $40 AR - this is an amazing deal, and 750W is more than enough
Corsair 750D $110 AR - I would definitely recommend this over the 780T unless you really like the bubble styling
Corsair H100i $80 AR - for RAM accessibility
Total: $1535 AR

 

[Geeksmirage]

Right now, Im basically trying to make a few decisions.

1. Should I go for the 5820k or the 5960k (Notice: NOT the 5930k). The cost difference is massive, $380 vs $1000. But that is the top of the line processor. Plus that should take care of all my multitasking needs for a few years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDF4jkVRsI&list=UUzqOB6Yvp2mAw8UAJoFqMWQ

2. Mobo: Asus Deluxe vs Extreme? (I will start OC the first time with this system)
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/asus-x99-rampage-v-extreme-review,1.html

3. GPUs: Since I dont game THAT much, I can either use my old Radeon 6850 HD or get ONE 970, because adding a second 970 later is easy. What is not easy is changing ur processor / mobo.

The rest, RAM, PSU, Cooler etc is a secondary decision i guess.

 

[crashtech]

Also, I wouldn't get too bought into the marketing of closed loop coolers (CLCs). CLCs are really nothing more than air coolers which have their heatsink fins slightly relocated and use liquid instead of phase change heatpipes. They don't have the sheer heat removal capacity of a full custom loop. They have their place, but you should be realistic about their performance.

Can you provide some links to further reading on this subject? My own experience with large radiator AIOs does not square with your assertions, though I would like to keep an open mind. From what I can tell, it's just not possible to get the cooling fin area of a 140x300mm radiator into an air cooler form factor, but then again I have not bothered to do the math, mine are "eye-crometer" measurements.

 

[mfenn]

1. Should I go for the 5820k or the 5960k (Notice: NOT the 5930k). The cost difference is massive, $380 vs $1000. But that is the top of the line processor. Plus that should take care of all my multitasking needs for a few years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDF4jkVRsI&list=UUzqOB6Yvp2mAw8UAJoFqMWQ

Your use case really isn't "multitasking" in the since that you're doing a lot of computationally-limited things at the same time. It's more of "rapidly serial tasking" where you want to be able to switch between lots of different things on short notice. That means you need RAM capacity, not maximum CPU performance.

2. Mobo: Asus Deluxe vs Extreme? (I will start OC the first time with this system)
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/asus-x99-rampage-v-extreme-review,1.html

Neither. They are both heinously expensive and offer you very little marginal value.

3. GPUs: Since I dont game THAT much, I can either use my old Radeon 6850 HD or get ONE 970, because adding a second 970 later is easy. What is not easy is changing ur processor / mobo.

You want to play fairly intensive games like DA:I, so that puts a pretty serious floor on what kind of GPU you can get. The GTX 970 is a pretty good choice for you. I wouldn't plan to "upgrade to SLI", it's not worth it for your games (a single card is right in the sweet spot). If you ever decide to add more than 4 monitors, pick up a small and quiet secondary card to drive the extras.

 

[mfenn]

Can you provide some links to further reading on this subject? My own experience with large radiator AIOs does not square with your assertions, though I would like to keep an open mind. From what I can tell, it's just not possible to get the cooling fin area of a 140x300mm radiator into an air cooler form factor, but then again I have not bothered to do the math, mine are "eye-crometer" measurements.

Here's a Tom's review. As you can see, the big dual radiator CLC's are roughly the same as a similarly big Noctua D14. There are situations where you can consider each, but there's no magic in the CLC.

 

[Geeksmirage]

Here's a Tom's review. As you can see, the big dual radiator CLC's are roughly the same as a similarly big Noctua D14. There are situations where you can consider each, but there's no magic in the CLC.

http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/corsair_hydro_series_h100i_review,12.html
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_h110_review,13.html

Im completely new to the world of CLCs, so no idea.
Some sites recommend the H100i, but then say its way too noisy and you need to change the fans? Some say The 110 is better. And some say avoid that alltogether and go for the Noctua ..?

 

[CoPhotoGuy]

I agree with this. When you're running multiple heavy DX applications at the same time, you're going to hit all sorts of performance corner cases that were never tested for. Mostly driver and game bugs.

Also, I wouldn't get too bought into the marketing of closed loop coolers (CLCs). CLCs are really nothing more than air coolers which have their heatsink fins slightly relocated and use liquid instead of phase change heatpipes. They don't have the sheer heat removal capacity of a full custom loop. They have their place, but you should be realistic about their performance.

Anyway, I can't really approve of the latest build posted by the OP. It's straight up wasting money on the CPU and motherboard. Here's what I would recommend:

i7 5820K $390
ASRock X99 Extreme4 $186 AR
Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR3 2400 32GB $399
EVGA GTX 970 $330 - 4 display support, add a smaller secondary card for additional monitors should you need them
Reuse 840 EVO 1TB $0
Reuse HDD's $0
Reuse ODD $0
Rosewill Capstone 750W $40 AR - this is an amazing deal, and 750W is more than enough
Corsair 750D $110 AR - I would definitely recommend this over the 780T unless you really like the bubble styling
Corsair H100i $80 AR - for RAM accessibility
Total: $1535 AR

This is closer to what I run, except air cooling, a GTX 640 that's older (I only need it for dual link DVI), 520W PSU and an XP941 M.2 drive. I don't see how spending $1000 on a CPU is going to really improve over this setup that makes it worth the extra money.

 

[crashtech]

Here's a Tom's review. As you can see, the big dual radiator CLC's are roughly the same as a similarly big Noctua D14. There are situations where you can consider each, but there's no magic in the CLC.

The D14 is supreme amongst air coolers, unfortunately for me I am averse to their color scheme. One day I will end up with one and see if I can equal the performance of their coffee colored fans with something more pleasing to the eye. yet the H100 bests it by a small margin.

It looks like the H110 (not shown in the Tom's test) may have a significant edge over the H100 in a heavily stressed situations.

 

[Geeksmirage]

Your use case really isn't "multitasking" in the since that you're doing a lot of computationally-limited things at the same time. It's more of "rapidly serial tasking" where you want to be able to switch between lots of different things on short notice. That means you need RAM capacity, not maximum CPU performance.



Neither. They are both heinously expensive and offer you very little marginal value.



You want to play fairly intensive games like DA:I, so that puts a pretty serious floor on what kind of GPU you can get. The GTX 970 is a pretty good choice for you. I wouldn't plan to "upgrade to SLI", it's not worth it for your games (a single card is right in the sweet spot). If you ever decide to add more than 4 monitors, pick up a small and quiet secondary card to drive the extras.

1. GPU: I totally agree that 1GPU aka 970 is enough. Why EVGA over other brands?

2. CPU: I understand that "multitasking" means you need RAM space. Im simply going for extra RAM with 32GB and im all set there.

My big question comes down to 5820k or the 5960k as the 5930 doesnt really offer me anything too much.

Yes, it is an overkill. But is it worth putting in ~$400 now vs. having to spend on a new CPU in 2-3 years or putting in $1k now and not having to worry?

Also, playing devils advocate? In what scenarios would one go for those extra cores? Video processing etc?

3. Mobo:
The GIGABYTE GA-X99-UD4 is the same price as the ASRock X99 Extreme4. The ASRock has 2 less USB3 ports.
So other than that, any particular reason you would recommend the Asrock over the Gigabyte?
Now at higher pricepoints, the Asus Deluxe or Extreme are available. Considering the higher price point, im trying to figure out what extra functionality do they offer, so that I can consider if the price is worth it.

4. RAM: I see everyone recommending Crucial Ballistix Sport. Is it simply because its about $50-$100 less than the rest?

5. PSU: This is a great price. Its the older model, should that matter? Any reason to recommend this brand over Antecs or Enermax?

6. Case: Ive been debating between these 2 cases for 2 days now. I like the Bubble part of the second case, the first one simply looks a little plain to me. Thats one reason, secondly, I like the latch lock.

 

[ronopp]

You have 3-4 games running at the same time? Why?

wondering that too?

 

[Geeksmirage]

wondering that too?

As I mentioned, 2-3 are clients. I play D3 an hour every night, but leave it on to quickly chat and come out, so I dont have to login and logout everytime etc.

 

[nsafreak]

As I mentioned, 2-3 are clients. I play D3 an hour every night, but leave it on to quickly chat and come out, so I dont have to login and logout everytime etc.

You do realize that you can simply leave the battle.net client open for chatting and not leave the full game client loaded, right? I agree with the sentiments expressed so far by mfenn in this thread as well. Insofar as going for the 5960K instead of the 5820K you won't necessarily be future proofing the system by going that route. It's quite likely that by the time it comes to upgrade the 5820K the same would be true of the 5960K and with your uses I don't see you fully utilizing what the 5960K has to offer.

 

[DigDog]

I'll have to take a call on the 780T vs 750D. Not sure about the plain looks of the 750?
Which mobo?
GIGABYTE GA-X99-UD4
GIGABYTE GA-X99-GAMING 5
GIGABYTE GA-X99-UD5 WIFI
ASUS X99-DELUXE
ASUS RAMPAGE V EXTREME

FAN: Why H100i over NZXT Kraken X61 106.1 ?

RAM: Corsair is cool with me, but which one? There are many ... And many frequencies.
I'll get 4x8GB though.

GPU: 2x970. Done.

Overclock: Done (Once I learn how to )

SSD: Already have a Samsung 840 EVO 1TB.

at this price range you cannot go wrong with any mobo. i would go with the gigabyte UD4 since their U-line has always been the "serious" one, but i doubt you could buy something bad. just stay away from the "gaming" branding. the Force series is for extreme overclocking, so that's an option as well.

speaking of ram, you will see diminishing returns once you run it at 2ghz, so it hardly matters which one you get, i have always used the XMS series and it's always performed above average for little money. we are talking much less difference here than in buying a better vs worse cpu.

also note:
ram modules of different speeds are just modules where the timings have been loosened. if you do the maths, yes, you will see that faster modules are *slightly* better than slower ones but nothing that warrants crazy money. and you are practically guaranteed that any corsair stick can me made to run *faster* than the factory settings. often they run almost as fast as the most expensive, cherry picked ram. it's just that you aren't guaranteed that they can do that, and it's the guarantee you are paying for.
(i wouldnt buy ballistix - and thats funny, because i had a set of ballistix in my last pc - because that brand swings from top-class to shit-for-gamers without warning, and thats not very serious behaviour from crucial)

the H100i has both digital control (you can set a multitude of profiles of fan speed vs heat in your OS) and it's corsair. corsair have proven over years that they don't fuck with their customers, i am truly brand loyal to them because if something with corsair written on it breaks, they will take it back and gve you a new one.
there's even stories of people having their AIO bleed water and ruin a PC, and corsair replacing all the components.

also if you look at the benchmarks, all these same-sized AIO pretty much perform identical. maybe a 2c spread.

2x 970 is a brash decision. i doubt you will find anything which makes a single 97 sweat. afaik people on youtube are running 4k FarCry 4 @60fps on a single 970, all maxed except AA.


oh, and about EVGA. this is another brand which has them killing themselves to be NUMBERONE!!1!; their recent products have been stellar, as you can see in the reviews on http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Review_Cat&recatnum=13
they are also priced very nicely and you can even often find deals on them. and they look cool, and are modular. and i think 10 years warranty? or 5? something like that.

 

[escrow4]

Don't recommend Gigabyte for X99 (don't really recommend Gigabyte at all actually anymore):

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/10/16/gigabyte_gax99ud4_lga_2011v3_motherboard_review/3

"I’ll start off by saying the BIOS for the X99-UD4 is a huge mess."

http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?topic=15169.0

http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?topic=15097.0

http://www.overclock.net/t/1510355/gigabyte-x99-motherboard-discussion-club/320

"only took 2 months for a proper bios" (Are you sure?)

The X99 Extreme 6:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X99 Extreme6/

"10 USB 3.0 (4 Front, 6 Rear), 7 USB 2.0 (4 Front, 2 Back, 1 Vertical Type A)"

 

[Cerb]

The D14 is supreme amongst air coolers, unfortunately for me I am averse to their color scheme. One day I will end up with one and see if I can equal the performance of their coffee colored fans with something more pleasing to the eye. yet the H100 bests it by a small margin.

Coffee? You're being kind. Anyway, they make them in black and white now, though not the entire model range. Or, you could just put your own fans in from other brands, and risk them fighting it out .

 

[biostud]

I'm pretty happy with the setup in my sig.

 

[Geeksmirage]

You do realize that you can simply leave the battle.net client open for chatting and not leave the full game client loaded, right? I agree with the sentiments expressed so far by mfenn in this thread as well. Insofar as going for the 5960K instead of the 5820K you won't necessarily be future proofing the system by going that route. It's quite likely that by the time it comes to upgrade the 5820K the same would be true of the 5960K and with your uses I don't see you fully utilizing what the 5960K has to offer.

Agreed. I've decided on the 5820K. Sometimes you just need help when you start having grandiose dreams of the best ultra cool processor out there

 

[Geeksmirage]

at this price range you cannot go wrong with any mobo. i would go with the gigabyte UD4 since their U-line has always been the "serious" one, but i doubt you could buy something bad. just stay away from the "gaming" branding. the Force series is for extreme overclocking, so that's an option as well.

speaking of ram, you will see diminishing returns once you run it at 2ghz, so it hardly matters which one you get, i have always used the XMS series and it's always performed above average for little money. we are talking much less difference here than in buying a better vs worse cpu.

also note:
ram modules of different speeds are just modules where the timings have been loosened. if you do the maths, yes, you will see that faster modules are *slightly* better than slower ones but nothing that warrants crazy money. and you are practically guaranteed that any corsair stick can me made to run *faster* than the factory settings. often they run almost as fast as the most expensive, cherry picked ram. it's just that you aren't guaranteed that they can do that, and it's the guarantee you are paying for.
(i wouldnt buy ballistix - and thats funny, because i had a set of ballistix in my last pc - because that brand swings from top-class to shit-for-gamers without warning, and thats not very serious behaviour from crucial)

the H100i has both digital control (you can set a multitude of profiles of fan speed vs heat in your OS) and it's corsair. corsair have proven over years that they don't fuck with their customers, i am truly brand loyal to them because if something with corsair written on it breaks, they will take it back and gve you a new one.
there's even stories of people having their AIO bleed water and ruin a PC, and corsair replacing all the components.

also if you look at the benchmarks, all these same-sized AIO pretty much perform identical. maybe a 2c spread.

2x 970 is a brash decision. i doubt you will find anything which makes a single 97 sweat. afaik people on youtube are running 4k FarCry 4 @60fps on a single 970, all maxed except AA.


oh, and about EVGA. this is another brand which has them killing themselves to be NUMBERONE!!1!; their recent products have been stellar, as you can see in the reviews on http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Review_Cat&recatnum=13
they are also priced very nicely and you can even often find deals on them. and they look cool, and are modular. and i think 10 years warranty? or 5? something like that.

Gigabyte- I somehow am just not happy about them. Ive had the UD4 for 4 years now. Its not that anything went wrong, but call it user sentiment? Lots of crappyish utilities. So if I had an option, I wouldnt get Gigabyte. Not that im against it, but would prefer not to.

RAM - Agreed. The clock shouldnt make a significant difference, especially for the price vs performance.
I am concerned about your ballistix point. The Ballistix is about $50-$100 cheaper than others, thats Why Im asking. Do you mean that a RAM stick would misbehave after you buy, or that their QA process was bad with a lot of DOA or was Cust Supp bad?
http://www.tweaktown.com/guides/662...ory-buyer-s-guide-launch-edition-/index8.html

I read this fantastic article on it yesterday:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7364/memory-scaling-on-haswell/10

Cooler: Ive never had the opportunity to be a Corsair customer. But this year, it seems I will be. A case by them, a cooler by them. Lets see, may get their RAM as well. H100i it is.

GPU: Yup, one 970 it is. I hate adding in parts afterwards, because of non compatibility. Especially after getting burned with my RAM situation. However, I know adding GPUs is easy, so just getting one.

PSU: I'll keep a look out for PSUs. Most probably ill just get the one for a good price.
http://ttgreviews.hubpages.com/hub/best-psu-power-supply
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2025425/how-to-pick-the-best-pc-power-supply.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqThn3C-zg4

 

[Geeksmirage]

I'm pretty happy with the setup in my sig.

That does look pretty sweet. Why the ASROCK X99X ?

 

[Geeksmirage]

Don't recommend Gigabyte for X99 (don't really recommend Gigabyte at all actually anymore):

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/10/16/gigabyte_gax99ud4_lga_2011v3_motherboard_review/3

"I’ll start off by saying the BIOS for the X99-UD4 is a huge mess."

http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?topic=15169.0

http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?topic=15097.0

http://www.overclock.net/t/1510355/gigabyte-x99-motherboard-discussion-club/320

"only took 2 months for a proper bios" (Are you sure?)

The X99 Extreme 6:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X99 Extreme6/

"10 USB 3.0 (4 Front, 6 Rear), 7 USB 2.0 (4 Front, 2 Back, 1 Vertical Type A)"

Very interesting. Im leaning heavily towards Asus or ASRock too. Mainly Asus, coz Ive never had issues with them, however they are much more exp. So reading up more.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8735/holiday-guides-2014-x99-motherboards
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8557/...rock-x99-ws-msi-x99s-sli-plus-intel-haswell-e

 

[Geeksmirage]

Btw, Im wondering if I need:
1. A sound card. Just thought that it may be nice to get a $50 sound card instead of stock sound (I have the Logitech Z906 speakers).
2. Do I need a Wifi card? It seems that some of these come with Wifi cards, some dont?
3. For more USB3 (or 2) ports, can I get a PCI card for that?
4. Im having this discussion on another thread, but how about a X2 SSD?
I just started using my Samsung EVO, would you recommend going on the X2 bandwagon? Or should I wait till next year, thats what Im trying to figure out.
Because its a mega pain to reformat, so should I be buying a 256/512 X2 right now for my OS?
Not sure if the tech is in its infancy and its better to wait 1-2 years.
5. Im also trying to figure out something for my front bay, which shows me task manager stats - CPU, Disk, RAM, N/W. Most front bays show only CPU + Fans. Any thoughts or recommendations?

 

[biostud]

That does look pretty sweet. Why the ASROCK X99X ?

Pretty much the same board as the Extreme6, but with some gaming related features like the Kill NIC/Mouse port. (Although I run with the Intel NIC atm )
Also one of the boards with dual spacing between the PCIe x16 slots making it ideal for CF/SLI. The M.2 port is coupled with 4x PCIe 3.0 for future proofing, compared to Gigabytes 2x PCIe 2.0.

And the extra cost for some extra features are pretty low when comparing to total system cost.

(This board cannot run Tri SLI with 5820K because it splits the PCIe lanes 16x/8x/4x)

 

[Geeksmirage]

Pretty much the same board as the Extreme6, but with some gaming related features like the Kill NIC/Mouse port. (Although I run with the Intel NIC atm )
Also one of the boards with dual spacing between the PCIe x16 slots making it ideal for CF/SLI. The M.2 port is coupled with 4x PCIe 3.0 for future proofing, compared to Gigabytes 2x PCIe 2.0.

And the extra cost for some extra features are pretty low when comparing to total system cost.

(This board cannot run Tri SLI with 5820K because it splits the PCIe lanes 16x/8x/4x)

Thanks for the info. I doubt if I'll ever run Tri SLI, so thats a non issue.

The main thing for me is, should I go for an Asrock Extreme 4 / 6 model or a Asus Deluxe / Extreme model. The Asus ones may be an overkill, just need to understand the pros and cons.