Upside-down on your mortgage?

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: rrahman1
this is a scenario someone asked help on once, i wasn't sure how to answer it... let's say a home is bought for 150K, with 135K financed by the bank. owner then takes out a home equity for 20K from same lender. If owner decided to foreclose, is he liable for the home equity or is that tied into the mortgage somehow?

IIRC, a home loan is secured and thus forgiven in BK/FC, a HELOC or loan is unsecured and thus the lender can go after the full value of it after BK/FC. I think that's what I heard before.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: rrahman1
this is a scenario someone asked help on once, i wasn't sure how to answer it... let's say a home is bought for 150K, with 135K financed by the bank. owner then takes out a home equity for 20K from same lender. If owner decided to foreclose, is he liable for the home equity or is that tied into the mortgage somehow?

IIRC, a home loan is secured and thus forgiven in BK/FC, a HELOC or loan is unsecured and thus the lender can go after the full value of it after BK/FC. I think that's what I heard before.

Considering the HE = Home Equity, how can that be? That does not make a lot of sense.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: rrahman1
this is a scenario someone asked help on once, i wasn't sure how to answer it... let's say a home is bought for 150K, with 135K financed by the bank. owner then takes out a home equity for 20K from same lender. If owner decided to foreclose, is he liable for the home equity or is that tied into the mortgage somehow?

IIRC, a home loan is secured and thus forgiven in BK/FC, a HELOC or loan is unsecured and thus the lender can go after the full value of it after BK/FC. I think that's what I heard before.

Considering the HE = Home Equity, how can that be? That does not make a lot of sense.

When you take out a loan against the HE, its not equity anymore.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
$95K? jeebus I live in the wrong part of town.

no shit, that won't buy you a garage here...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

So how is this anybody else's fault? He managed his money poorly, made idiotic decisions, and is now paying for it.

It's more or less the same for you, you made bad decisions and now attempt to shift the blame away from yourself by looking for everybody else to take the shoulder.

Sorry chuck, nobody gives a crap about you.

This is America, you sink or swim based upon your decisions and nobody should shoulder the blame.

The decision was based on the go ahead from the Vice President of the local bank and deputy Sheriff.

Why do they get a free pass for fraud and deception?

what VP of the bank and deputy sheriff? there is no mention of them in the article

It's not in the article. He sandwiched a line aimed at me. A situation he is aware of how my my wife and I were swindled out of $43,000

It was 50k before. Sure dave, keep going. If you were "swindled" you would have legal recourse. Sounds like you got suckered and are still bitter that you weren't wise enough to avoid it. Don't apply your own foolishness to everybody else while trying to divert their reasons, and yours, for getting "swindled". Take some personal responsibility for once. However, if you were truly "swindled", then it's unfortunate and you shouldn't apply your anecdote to all situations and cry foul for everybody. It just makes you look petty and them moronic.

These people signed on the line, some were fraud, but 99% weren't. They deserve everything they get for being foolish. I don't buy into stuff I know isn't a good deal, or wise, and they should have done the same. They will learn a very important life lesson. Nobody watches out for you, but you. If you want a nanny, hire Fran Drescher, otherwise, take care of yourself and remove the nipple from your mouth.

$20,000 debi's retirement, $18,000 bank loan plus $1,000's I had to throw in on such things as broken plumbing and heat. Adds up.

Explain how I'm not taking "personal responsibility".

I've done all can to keep a roof over our head. You have no idea how hard I worked this year and how many hours I put in that debi had to literally drag me outside to see the sun.

Before spouting off sh!t would it be so hard to ask?

 

[Greenman]

So how exactly did you get swindled?

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Greenman
So how exactly did you get swindled?

I'm also curious, your original post didn't specify anything like that and I've skimmed the thread, but you don't really give a clear explanation as to why this is someone else's fault and not yours.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: rrahman1
this is a scenario someone asked help on once, i wasn't sure how to answer it... let's say a home is bought for 150K, with 135K financed by the bank. owner then takes out a home equity for 20K from same lender. If owner decided to foreclose, is he liable for the home equity or is that tied into the mortgage somehow?

IIRC, a home loan is secured and thus forgiven in BK/FC, a HELOC or loan is unsecured and thus the lender can go after the full value of it after BK/FC. I think that's what I heard before.

Considering the HE = Home Equity, how can that be? That does not make a lot of sense.

When you take out a loan against the HE, its not equity anymore.

A HELOC is a line of credit. You still have all the equity until you actually start to use the line of credit. I have a HELOC and still have the same amount of equity in my house. If I were to use some of the credit, then that loan is secured by the equity in my house.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: rrahman1
this is a scenario someone asked help on once, i wasn't sure how to answer it... let's say a home is bought for 150K, with 135K financed by the bank. owner then takes out a home equity for 20K from same lender. If owner decided to foreclose, is he liable for the home equity or is that tied into the mortgage somehow?

IIRC, a home loan is secured and thus forgiven in BK/FC, a HELOC or loan is unsecured and thus the lender can go after the full value of it after BK/FC. I think that's what I heard before.

HELOCs are secured to the property just like any other mortgage, just in a junior lien position. When a property is foreclosed and then later sold, any first mortgage is repaid before any junior lien (2nd mortgage, HELOC, etc). If the sale is short, you do the math... the 1st gets paid before the 2nd. Meaning that a 2nd has a greater likelihood of a deficiency judgment.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: DBL


A HELOC is a line of credit. You still have all the equity until you actually start to use the line of credit. I have a HELOC and still have the same amount of equity in my house. If I were to use some of the credit, then that loan is secured by the equity in my house.

I think that's what Ive been saying, once you start using the HELOC, that amount you take out is no longer equity in the house, its a loan that needs to be repaid, like a HEL.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: rrahman1
this is a scenario someone asked help on once, i wasn't sure how to answer it... let's say a home is bought for 150K, with 135K financed by the bank. owner then takes out a home equity for 20K from same lender. If owner decided to foreclose, is he liable for the home equity or is that tied into the mortgage somehow?

IIRC, a home loan is secured and thus forgiven in BK/FC, a HELOC or loan is unsecured and thus the lender can go after the full value of it after BK/FC. I think that's what I heard before.

HELOCs are secured to the property just like any other mortgage, just in a junior lien position. When a property is foreclosed and then later sold, any first mortgage is repaid before any junior lien (2nd mortgage, HELOC, etc). If the sale is short, you do the math... the 1st gets paid before the 2nd. Meaning that a 2nd has a greater likelihood of a deficiency judgment.

That's it, recourse vs nonrecourse, that's what I was looking for. You cant discharge the nonrecourse loans in BK.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

So how is this anybody else's fault? He managed his money poorly, made idiotic decisions, and is now paying for it.

It's more or less the same for you, you made bad decisions and now attempt to shift the blame away from yourself by looking for everybody else to take the shoulder.

Sorry chuck, nobody gives a crap about you.

This is America, you sink or swim based upon your decisions and nobody should shoulder the blame.

The decision was based on the go ahead from the Vice President of the local bank and deputy Sheriff.

Why do they get a free pass for fraud and deception?

what VP of the bank and deputy sheriff? there is no mention of them in the article

It's not in the article. He sandwiched a line aimed at me. A situation he is aware of how my my wife and I were swindled out of $43,000

It was 50k before. Sure dave, keep going. If you were "swindled" you would have legal recourse. Sounds like you got suckered and are still bitter that you weren't wise enough to avoid it. Don't apply your own foolishness to everybody else while trying to divert their reasons, and yours, for getting "swindled". Take some personal responsibility for once. However, if you were truly "swindled", then it's unfortunate and you shouldn't apply your anecdote to all situations and cry foul for everybody. It just makes you look petty and them moronic.

These people signed on the line, some were fraud, but 99% weren't. They deserve everything they get for being foolish. I don't buy into stuff I know isn't a good deal, or wise, and they should have done the same. They will learn a very important life lesson. Nobody watches out for you, but you. If you want a nanny, hire Fran Drescher, otherwise, take care of yourself and remove the nipple from your mouth.

Should or can we get the government to apply that logic to the corporations, bankers, shareholders, etc. when they make a bad investment or loan and tell them to suck it up instead of using our tax money or interest rate cuts to help bail them out?

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

So how is this anybody else's fault? He managed his money poorly, made idiotic decisions, and is now paying for it.

It's more or less the same for you, you made bad decisions and now attempt to shift the blame away from yourself by looking for everybody else to take the shoulder.

Sorry chuck, nobody gives a crap about you.

This is America, you sink or swim based upon your decisions and nobody should shoulder the blame.

The decision was based on the go ahead from the Vice President of the local bank and deputy Sheriff.

Why do they get a free pass for fraud and deception?

what VP of the bank and deputy sheriff? there is no mention of them in the article

It's not in the article. He sandwiched a line aimed at me. A situation he is aware of how my my wife and I were swindled out of $43,000

It was 50k before. Sure dave, keep going. If you were "swindled" you would have legal recourse. Sounds like you got suckered and are still bitter that you weren't wise enough to avoid it. Don't apply your own foolishness to everybody else while trying to divert their reasons, and yours, for getting "swindled". Take some personal responsibility for once. However, if you were truly "swindled", then it's unfortunate and you shouldn't apply your anecdote to all situations and cry foul for everybody. It just makes you look petty and them moronic.

These people signed on the line, some were fraud, but 99% weren't. They deserve everything they get for being foolish. I don't buy into stuff I know isn't a good deal, or wise, and they should have done the same. They will learn a very important life lesson. Nobody watches out for you, but you. If you want a nanny, hire Fran Drescher, otherwise, take care of yourself and remove the nipple from your mouth.

$20,000 debi's retirement, $18,000 bank loan plus $1,000's I had to throw in on such things as broken plumbing and heat. Adds up.

Explain how I'm not taking "personal responsibility".

I've done all can to keep a roof over our head. You have no idea how hard I worked this year and how many hours I put in that debi had to literally drag me outside to see the sun.

Before spouting off sh!t would it be so hard to ask?

Dave with the amount of time you spend online researching stuff, you have no excuse for making mistakes like you did.

1.) Always have a lawyer go over a property purchase
2.) Never bet the farm on something (your wife's retirement)
3.) You & an accountant & a lawyer should have gone over the books of the business you bought.
4.) When you screw up don't expect a lot of sympathy by screaming CONSPIRACY every goddamn time you fusk up.

You're doomed to fusk up over & over again because you keep blaming everyone else for your screw ups.

It wasn't Bush's fault, it was yours.

Merry Christmas & Stop Posting

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

So how is this anybody else's fault? He managed his money poorly, made idiotic decisions, and is now paying for it.

It's more or less the same for you, you made bad decisions and now attempt to shift the blame away from yourself by looking for everybody else to take the shoulder.

Sorry chuck, nobody gives a crap about you.

This is America, you sink or swim based upon your decisions and nobody should shoulder the blame.

The decision was based on the go ahead from the Vice President of the local bank and deputy Sheriff.

Why do they get a free pass for fraud and deception?

what VP of the bank and deputy sheriff? there is no mention of them in the article

It's not in the article. He sandwiched a line aimed at me. A situation he is aware of how my my wife and I were swindled out of $43,000

It was 50k before. Sure dave, keep going. If you were "swindled" you would have legal recourse. Sounds like you got suckered and are still bitter that you weren't wise enough to avoid it. Don't apply your own foolishness to everybody else while trying to divert their reasons, and yours, for getting "swindled". Take some personal responsibility for once. However, if you were truly "swindled", then it's unfortunate and you shouldn't apply your anecdote to all situations and cry foul for everybody. It just makes you look petty and them moronic.

These people signed on the line, some were fraud, but 99% weren't. They deserve everything they get for being foolish. I don't buy into stuff I know isn't a good deal, or wise, and they should have done the same. They will learn a very important life lesson. Nobody watches out for you, but you. If you want a nanny, hire Fran Drescher, otherwise, take care of yourself and remove the nipple from your mouth.

$20,000 debi's retirement, $18,000 bank loan plus $1,000's I had to throw in on such things as broken plumbing and heat. Adds up.

Explain how I'm not taking "personal responsibility".

I've done all can to keep a roof over our head. You have no idea how hard I worked this year and how many hours I put in that debi had to literally drag me outside to see the sun.

Before spouting off sh!t would it be so hard to ask?

Yet, throughout all of that, you managed to post a few thousand posts on here trolling with your usual stuff. Imagine that.

Sounds like you didn't do your homework. You did something stupid and should have done your thorough research. instead, it sounds like you went all-out, put all of your eggs in one basket, and was imprudent and stupid. That is nobody's fault but *YOUR OWN*. Suck it up and live with it. There's a lot of other people who didn't but don't go around complaining about being screwed.

I could be wrong, but you have a strong penchant for diverting fault, twisting truth, and projecting ridiculous stories.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: 1prophet


Should or can we get the government to apply that logic to the corporations, bankers, shareholders, etc. when they make a bad investment or loan and tell them to suck it up instead of using our tax money or interest rate cuts to help bail them out?

You wont find a stronger advocate of that than me. *NOBODY* should have to pay for your mistakes and misjudgment. However, outright fraud should be helped out in many cases.

 

[V00DOO]

For those that are interested these are the Foreclosurer Rules for California. Foreclosurer Rules of CA

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: 1prophet


Should or can we get the government to apply that logic to the corporations, bankers, shareholders, etc. when they make a bad investment or loan and tell them to suck it up instead of using our tax money or interest rate cuts to help bail them out?

You wont find a stronger advocate of that than me. *NOBODY* should have to pay for your mistakes and misjudgment. However, outright fraud should be helped out in many cases.

In general, outright fraud should be helped in the sense that the fraudster should be punished, and his/her assets should be handed out to the victim(s).

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

That's it, recourse vs nonrecourse, that's what I was looking for. You cant discharge the nonrecourse loans in BK.

why would you? you're not personally liable on them.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Should or can we get the government to apply that logic to the corporations, bankers, shareholders, etc. when they make a bad investment or loan and tell them to suck it up instead of using our tax money or interest rate cuts to help bail them out?

You wont find a stronger advocate of that than me. *NOBODY* should have to pay for your mistakes and misjudgment. However, outright fraud should be helped out in many cases.

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Sounds like you didn't do your homework. You did something stupid and should have done your thorough research. instead, it sounds like you went all-out, put all of your eggs in one basket, and was imprudent and stupid. That is nobody's fault but *YOUR OWN*. Suck it up and live with it. There's a lot of other people who didn't but don't go around complaining about being screwed.

I could be wrong, but you have a strong penchant for diverting fault, twisting truth, and projecting ridiculous stories.

We researched as far as we can go. Since our name was not on any of the accounts the vendors would not speak to us. But they sure did once our name was on the accounts.

So unless you can subpeona before a crime how can it have been done differently?

Things are set up to protect those that will do fraud and commit deciet and should be in jail.

Instead they get to prey without impunity and you guys support them.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Should or can we get the government to apply that logic to the corporations, bankers, shareholders, etc. when they make a bad investment or loan and tell them to suck it up instead of using our tax money or interest rate cuts to help bail them out?

You wont find a stronger advocate of that than me. *NOBODY* should have to pay for your mistakes and misjudgment. However, outright fraud should be helped out in many cases.

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Sounds like you didn't do your homework. You did something stupid and should have done your thorough research. instead, it sounds like you went all-out, put all of your eggs in one basket, and was imprudent and stupid. That is nobody's fault but *YOUR OWN*. Suck it up and live with it. There's a lot of other people who didn't but don't go around complaining about being screwed.

I could be wrong, but you have a strong penchant for diverting fault, twisting truth, and projecting ridiculous stories.

We researched as far as we can go. Since our name was not on any of the accounts the vendors would not speak to us. But they sure did once our name was on the accounts.

So unless you can subpeona before a crime how can it have been done differently?

Things are set up to protect those that will do fraud and commit deciet and should be in jail.

Instead they get to prey without impunity and you guys support them.

Note to self, it's Christmas, leave the retarded trolls alone...

 

[Aquila76]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
It might not be financially smart, but we have moral issues with walking away from debt. We could have easily filed for bankruptcy several years ago, but chose to rather tighten down and pay off our overwhelming debts as best we could. After all, we racked them up - doesn't seem right to just let someone else eat our mistakes, just because they are "faceless" bank/corporations.

I'm thinking we'll just smartly try to improve the value of our house as much as possible.

Dude, you just gave me my faith back in my fellow Americans. Someone who wants to "man up" and take responsibility for their past actions without taking a government handout? A rare breed indeed. I salute you!

I work in foreclosures and I see thousands of cases each quarter where people refi'd their house, blew the money on new cars, a pool, boat, etc. and then file bankruptcy instead of tightening down or selling off their new toys. It pisses me off to no end that my tax dollars have to pay for those tools to get out of a bad situation that is 100% their responsibility and could have been completely avoided with a little restraint.

EDIT: $95,000 for that house?!!!?? $95,000 won't get you a condemned shack out here. Maybe if it's in the boonies on a swamp with pterodactyl-sized skeeters. I'm in the wrong part of the country...

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Aquila76

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
It might not be financially smart, but we have moral issues with walking away from debt. We could have easily filed for bankruptcy several years ago, but chose to rather tighten down and pay off our overwhelming debts as best we could. After all, we racked them up - doesn't seem right to just let someone else eat our mistakes, just because they are "faceless" bank/corporations.

I'm thinking we'll just smartly try to improve the value of our house as much as possible.

Dude, you just gave me my faith back in my fellow Americans. Someone who wants to "man up" and take responsibility for their past actions without taking a government handout? A rare breed indeed. I salute you!

I work in foreclosures and I see thousands of cases each quarter where people refi'd their house, blew the money on new cars, a pool, boat, etc. and then file bankruptcy instead of tightening down or selling off their new toys. It pisses me off to no end that my tax dollars have to pay for those tools to get out of a bad situation that is 100% their responsibility and could have been completely avoided with a little restraint.

EDIT: $95,000 for that house?!!!?? $95,000 won't get you a condemned shack out here. Maybe if it's in the boonies on a swamp with pterodactyl-sized skeeters. I'm in the wrong part of the country...

LOL - that house is definitely undervalued - or else it has some major problems. Most comps in the area are going for $30-50K more than that, from what I've seen.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Should or can we get the government to apply that logic to the corporations, bankers, shareholders, etc. when they make a bad investment or loan and tell them to suck it up instead of using our tax money or interest rate cuts to help bail them out?

You wont find a stronger advocate of that than me. *NOBODY* should have to pay for your mistakes and misjudgment. However, outright fraud should be helped out in many cases.

Thought of something too along the lines of WWJD on this appropriate day.

Let's say I was the one that used fraudalent numbers and didn't pay vendors for nearly a year to show a false profit and lower expenses on a couple.

You guys would then be applauding me for scamming that couple out of their life's savings and putting them in a huge hole of debt?

 

[shortylickens]

It seems like it stinks to be on either side these days.
I know everyone keeps saying its a buyers market, but I wanna be a buyer and I think everything is way too damn expensive right now.
This housing price drop hasnt dropped anything, just slowed the ridiculous growth of house prices.

Sorry, I got a 55K job last year and I thought I would be able to get into a house. It hasnt happened yet. I know fifty five grand is darn good money for a 28 year old with no degree, but if it only gets me a one bedroom apartment and not much else I feel ripped off.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Aquila76

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
It might not be financially smart, but we have moral issues with walking away from debt. We could have easily filed for bankruptcy several years ago, but chose to rather tighten down and pay off our overwhelming debts as best we could. After all, we racked them up - doesn't seem right to just let someone else eat our mistakes, just because they are "faceless" bank/corporations.

I'm thinking we'll just smartly try to improve the value of our house as much as possible.

Dude, you just gave me my faith back in my fellow Americans. Someone who wants to "man up" and take responsibility for their past actions without taking a government handout? A rare breed indeed. I salute you!

I work in foreclosures and I see thousands of cases each quarter where people refi'd their house, blew the money on new cars, a pool, boat, etc. and then file bankruptcy instead of tightening down or selling off their new toys. It pisses me off to no end that my tax dollars have to pay for those tools to get out of a bad situation that is 100% their responsibility and could have been completely avoided with a little restraint.

EDIT: $95,000 for that house?!!!?? $95,000 won't get you a condemned shack out here. Maybe if it's in the boonies on a swamp with pterodactyl-sized skeeters. I'm in the wrong part of the country...

LOL - that house is definitely undervalued - or else it has some major problems. Most comps in the area are going for $30-50K more than that, from what I've seen.

Can you trust comps now?