Upgrade CPU/Video Help

[somuchdirt74]

Never done these things before and I've been doing research but sooo much information to grasp, so sorry for my ignorance. I just want to get the appropriate parts to prevent bottlenecks, so I can make it run faster and let it be descent for gaming.

I have a Gateway DX4200-09
Upgraded:
OS: windows 7
RAM: 6gb


CPU: So I hear you can put am3 cpu on am2+ socket, and to be safe not exceed 95watt on this mobo. I was eyeballing AMD Phenom II X4 960T
I've read you need to do something with bios and see what cpus your mobo supports but I don't know to find that info.

MOTHERBOARD
Manufacturer: Gateway
Model: RS780
Chipset: 780G
BIOS
American Megatrends Inc.
Version: 7B3P091G

Video Card I was thinking if I could use this one then it'll be fine for me.

PSU: I guess I get 500W? Please help I'm unsure of these things, I'm also open to any other recommended products, but I am on a budget and thats why I can't just build a new pc lol Thanks

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

What's your current video card?

 

[somuchdirt74]

My Current video card is no good I believe.. ATI Radeon HD 4300/4500 series

 

[Ken g6]

I don't believe you've told us what kind of gaming you want to do. (Unless you meant Descent 3, which doesn't take much.) Answering [thread=80121]some other questions[/thread] would also help.

 

[somuchdirt74]

Okay sorry for the lack info..

Budget: I want to use $250 max for video/cpu. Unless it'll be worth it to spend a little more (no worries for cost of psu)
I'll be buying parts from U.S. online, maybe even used parts.
No brand preferences just good reviews/good product
Resolution 1280x960 vizio 24in tv.

I'm not a hardcore gamer so I don't need the best settings, I just want it to be at least good and smooth. I figured the card I posted would be good as long as I can use its potential. Ghost recon:future soldier is one game I'm interested in and rated the above items... I guess Call of duty:MW3 would be another example of what I would like to play.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Cpu is a bottleneck for you. Your desktop also comes with a wimpy 300w power supply. My suggestion is to Get a 6670 videocard and call it good. Find one that doesn't require external power connectors. You really can't go putting high end stuff in an OEM box without it all running too hot. There isn't sufficient cooling in those things. You could just get a 6670 and I believe you'd see a significant improvement in your gaming experience.

 

[somuchdirt74]

That is why I want to replace my cpu with the one I posted. I just don't know which CPU's my mobo supports. PSU will also be replaced, won't be an issue. I was wondering if that EVGA card would be used appropriately with the AMD Phenom II X4 960T: if not then what will. Also opened to other CPU's recommended.

Cooling yes I was worried about, but if needed my friend may lend me a case.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I googled your board. Supposedly only phenom 1 cpu's work with it. Also keep in mind that your motherboard won't support overclocking.

 

[somuchdirt74]

This is actually how I found this forum because of this thread .. So it seems to be able to take on more than phenom 1 cpu's and I'm trying to figure out which ones it all can take, I just have no clue. Hopefully someone might be able to help me out with that

 

[mfenn]

For OEM machines, it's very hard to tell what particular CPUs are supported by the BIOS unless you know somebody who has tried it or know that the same model of machine was sold with it . That's because OEMs aren't terribly interested in supporting people who upgrade their machines, they'd rather just sell you an entirely new box.

Honestly, given that you already have $250, I would look into getting a new core machine. An original phenom will be bested by even a pedestrian Sandy Bridge CPU like a G620.

Pentium G620 $70
Biostar H61MGC $50
PNY DDR3 1333 8GB $40
Radeon 6750 $90
Total: $250

 

[DSF]

For OEM machines, it's very hard to tell what particular CPUs are supported by the BIOS unless you know somebody who has tried it or know that the same model of machine was sold with it . That's because OEMs aren't terribly interested in supporting people who upgrade their machines, they'd rather just sell you an entirely new box.

Honestly, given that you already have $250, I would look into getting a new core machine. An original phenom will be bested by even a pedestrian Sandy Bridge CPU like a G620.

Pentium G620 $70
Biostar H61MGC $50
PNY DDR3 1333 8GB $40
Radeon 6750 $90
Total: $250

If his prebuilt case takes a standard motherboard, that's fine. Not all do, so that's something to consider at least.

 

[mfenn]

If his prebuilt case takes a standard motherboard, that's fine. Not all do, so that's something to consider at least.

That's very real concern. I think that even at $270 (including the finest, cheapest $20 case), you would still be getting a better value from a platform update than just a CPU upgrade.

 

[somuchdirt74]

Honestly, given that you already have $250, I would look into getting a new core machine.

I agree with you on that. Although I really want an upgrade now, I'm thinking the best thing to do is just wait till I save enough to build a pc I'll be happy with for quite some time.

I've never built a pc and I will for sure for my next, So I need help to clear a few things up;
Take something like this biostar mobo.. Does that mean I can use any cpu with an am3 socket with 95 watt, or would I still have to lookup what cpu's those mobos support?
I see for CPU type: FX / Phenom II / Athlon II / Sempron 100 Series
so could I use any phenom II series; x2, x4, etc as long as it has am3 socket and is 95 watt?
Do intel boards work the same way for the intel cpus?

What is the best way to look up a descent mobo to go with a cpu?

 

[Ken g6]

I wouldn't even look at AMD CPUs for gaming, unless you're doing a bargain-basement build and can't afford a discrete GPU vs. Llano.

Modern Intel boards support pretty much all Intel processors that fit the socket. (Even Xeons reportedly work, though they're not supported.) Most of the important, basic stuff is integrated in the chipset, which these days is made only by Intel. You can't overclock or do some other advanced stuff with cheap chipsets like H61, but you can't afford much beyond the important, basic stuff. So I'd just look for a cheap board that doesn't have truly awful reviews.

 

[mfenn]

I wouldn't even look at AMD CPUs for gaming, unless you're doing a bargain-basement build and can't afford a discrete GPU vs. Llano.

Modern Intel boards support pretty much all Intel processors that fit the socket. (Even Xeons reportedly work, though they're not supported.) Most of the important, basic stuff is integrated in the chipset, which these days is made only by Intel. You can't overclock or do some other advanced stuff with cheap chipsets like H61, but you can't afford much beyond the important, basic stuff. So I'd just look for a cheap board that doesn't have truly awful reviews.

Agree. I'd ignore AMD for the time being. OP, to directly answer your question: yes, socket compatibility is much simpler than it once was. Any AM3(+) or LGA1155 processor will work in mobos with the respective sockets.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Wouldn't a platform upgrade for the OP also include having to get a new Windows license? Just a thought.

And the best way to determine what board to use is basically grab the cheapest board that has everything you want/need it to do, for a bare minimum board just go with the cheapest of the chipset, though a google search/reviews will tell you if the board has horrendous issues. Most boards nowadays don't seem to have huge issues.

 

[mfenn]

He says "upgraded windows 7", so I don't know if that means he bought a retail or OEM license.

 

[somuchdirt74]

Yeah I'm glad yall are telling me to get the cheap boards with good reviews cause that was my plan. haha

I also want to say the pc isn't strictly for gaming, I just want one that does a nice job at it.
I'm no fanboy so I must ask why are ya'll plainly suggesting intel over amd?
Don't get me wrong I would love a good intel cpu but they get rather expensive. I'm trying to keep under $145
So now this is how I'm comparing, how do ya'll compare and what are your opinions?

I go to cpubenchmark and try to get an idea of performance and try to compare cpu's there. and of course I look up reviews and price. What if I chose a AMD Phenom II X6 1045T over a Intel Core i5-2400S.. Good reviews, nice price and some say its good for overclocking if I was to do that. Seems like I would get more bang for the buck right? or is the way I'm comparing a big mistake? lol

 

[krnmastersgt]

Are you comparing those two on the basis that your current board is able to support the X6? If so I think that already is a problem since there's a fairly high chance it won't be able to.

But if it can/could, that's comparing an older performance CPU against a more modern energy efficient CPU. Not really a useful comparison, an analogy would be a performance car from the 90s vs a hybrid/electric from the last few years, they were designed/produced with different goals in mind and so while you can compare them side by side you're heavily biasing against what Intel's chips are capable of.

But if you're talking grabbing the X6 vs the full platform upgrade, you might see some nicer returns for a few very CPU intensive tasks that can utilize all of its cores, otherwise you're still going with the slower/hotter/less energy efficient route.

 

[somuchdirt74]

Are you comparing those two on the basis that your current board is able to support the X6? If so I think that already is a problem since there's a fairly high chance it won't be able to.

No, I'm going to buy a new mobo and just do a new build.. I kind of just put it there for an example because I don't know how to compare cpu's..
I don't want to exceed $140 for a cpu. People are saying I should get intel yet the AMD Phenom II X6 1045T seems to perform well and in my budget, but I can't find an intel within the budget doing the same/better performance (rather speed than energy efficiency).
Actually I've been looking at this AMD FX-6100 Six-Core as there are more reviews and same price, and better benchmark.

But like I've asked, am I approaching this completely wrong?
Would that amd fx be such a bad buy for what I want to do?
Is there an intel that could perform better for my needs in the same price range?

 

[krnmastersgt]

If you want or need multiple cores for something then the X6 is the better buy over Intel's offerings as there aren't really many Quads you can get for that cheap. The reason is that Intel's quads perform so much better the price difference is usually worth it for most CPU intensive tasks.

That being said though, most games today cannot make use of more than 2 cores so having 6 is relatively moot. Most games that can and do scale off more than 2 cores are generally made in a way where they can do just fine or acceptably at least with just 2.

Do you have a new updated budget or is still just 250? Because to get an X6 + a board that can support it will leave you less than $100 for the video card and I think you'd see much better gains from investing more in the video card and just making sure the CPU isn't bottlenecking your system too much.

 

[mfenn]

If you want or need multiple cores for something then the X6 is the better buy over Intel's offerings as there aren't really many Quads you can get for that cheap. The reason is that Intel's quads perform so much better the price difference is usually worth it for most CPU intensive tasks.

That being said though, most games today cannot make use of more than 2 cores so having 6 is relatively moot. Most games that can and do scale off more than 2 cores are generally made in a way where they can do just fine or acceptably at least with just 2.

Agree. Passmark scores are absolute bullshit and have little to no bearing on real applications. Sure, Phenom II can theoretically deliver close to as many aggregate operations as a Sandy Bridge, but theory and reality are wildly divergent in real applications.

Unless you encode videos every day, you are simply not going to see the benefit of 6 cores. A dual or quad core with better single-threaded performance (Sandy Bridge), will make the system feel faster overall and deliver better framerates in games. That's not to mention the fact that a Phenom II X6 is a hot beast compared to a Sandy Bridge CPU.

 

[somuchdirt74]

I would have titled this thread similar to "help build my pc" if I knew it was coming down to this lol.

Thank you for clearing that up guys.
So I am for sure going to get the Intel Core i3-2120 Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz LGA 1155... I would like to later upgrade to the Intel Core i5-2500K.. I noticed the i3 is 65w while the i5 is 95w, will the mobo still support both? here are two that I'm looking at

BIOSTAR TZ68K+ LGA 1155 Intel Z68
GIGABYTE GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68

I'm open to other suggestions, the price is fine but I would like for it to be cheaper lol but I guess most consider those to already be cheap. I notice boot loop problems in feedback but I see common feedback like that on many mobos. So does this occur often or should I avoid? I've never shopped at newegg before so I'm not sure of the experience.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Did those boards have any particular features you were fond of? There are cheaper Z68 and even Z77 boards out there if it's not about a specific feature set.

That aside either of those boards would be fine, I don't really consider those cheap as there a few boards you can get for around $80 if you deal with rebates. Realistically when do you plan on upgrading to an 2500k?

 

[Yuriman]

Not bad, but as krnmastersgt said you can get a Z77 board for a similar price. i3 is an excellent value and you'll be pleased with the performance bump. Pair that with the $40 HD6670 on newegg and you're golden.