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Question Upgrade CPU & MB now or wait for fall refreshes?

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blckgrffn

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Thanks...it's something to consider.

One thing I think I should make clear, part of the appeal to me for 10850k was to upgrade as little as possible and reuse as much as possible until I was ready to go all in. I can reuse my cooler and ram with a 10850k and I don't know if that would be the case for switching to AMD/5900x. $600 to upgrade to a modern 10core out the door vs $800+ for 5900X.
FWIW good DDR3200 should be fine (as fine as it is for the 10850k certainly) for Ryzen 5000 and there is a good chance if your cooler has an AM4 mounting kit. I bought one for a realy old Noctua. It was like $5 online.
 
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2blzd

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May 16, 2016
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So for those who care, I just got a call back from a MicroCenter employee, not a manager, and they were ready to tell me no and asked me to prove it. I sent them screenshots of my cart and browser history last night showing a complete purchase as well as a screenshot of the product page when it was listed for $319 because when I made the reservation I did not receive an immediate confirmation. In fact thats the reason for the issue. They didn't process my order until they pulled the products on Tues am, so when I ordered it was cheaper but by the time they pulled my products it was more expensive...so apparently that's my fault and they won't honor it. First experience with MicroCenter and definitely gonna be my last.
 
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Rigg

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May 6, 2020
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So for those who care, I just got a call back from a MicroCenter employee, not a manager, and they were ready to tell me no and asked me to prove it. I sent them screenshots of my cart and browser history last night showing a complete purchase as well as a screenshot of the product page when it was listed for $319 because when I made the reservation I did not receive an immediate confirmation. In fact thats the reason for the issue. They didn't process my order until they pulled the products on Monday am, so when I ordered it was cheaper but by the time they pulled my products it was more expensive...so apparently that's my fault and they won't honor it. First experience with MicroCenter and definitely gonna be my last.
Yeah that's lame. I can't say I blame you for taking your business elsewhere.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
7,653
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www.teamjuchems.com
So for those who care, I just got a call back from a MicroCenter employee, not a manager, and they were ready to tell me no and asked me to prove it. I sent them screenshots of my cart and browser history last night showing a complete purchase as well as a screenshot of the product page when it was listed for $319 because when I made the reservation I did not receive an immediate confirmation. In fact thats the reason for the issue. They didn't process my order until they pulled the products on Monday am, so when I ordered it was cheaper but by the time they pulled my products it was more expensive...so apparently that's my fault and they won't honor it. First experience with MicroCenter and definitely gonna be my last.
That’s ridiculous. I’ve always gotten invoices right away when I’ve ordered, I think. I hope this isn’t some covid inspired change.
 

2blzd

Senior member
May 16, 2016
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Just got a call back from a different employee apologizing and saying they will honor it. What a bizarre first experience this has been w/ Microcenter.

Moving on, since many of you are more in the loop than I am right now, what are the sweet spots for Intel and AMD in terms of RAM speed right now? Just out of curiosity.

Ive researched some memory scaling tests but they very greatly depending on the application and unfortunately Puget's Premiere and Photoshop memory scaling benches are from 2019 and use Zen2 and CL-R.


That’s ridiculous. I’ve always gotten invoices right away when I’ve ordered, I think. I hope this isn’t some covid inspired change.
I think the difference is I reserved for pickup and not out right purchased? First time so I was really confused. I hit reserve and put CC info and it charged my CC $1 for holding purposes but never got an invoice till next am.
 
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Rigg

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That’s ridiculous. I’ve always gotten invoices right away when I’ve ordered, I think. I hope this isn’t some covid inspired change.
This actually isn't unusual. I've had it happen several times when ordering after the store is closed for the day.

Just got a call back from a different employee apologizing and saying they will honor it. What a bizarre first experience this has been w/ Microcenter.
Bizarre. At least they made it right.
 
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2blzd

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May 16, 2016
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I recently got a 5900X from a local store, finally. Still need to install it :D Will then sell the 5800X
Hell ya!

I have till friday to pick up my stuff so I guess I will put my try pants on in the next 48+ hours tracking 5900x drops...oof!
 

coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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I just went and read that, and to say the 11700k is "better" than the 10850k is generous. To me, the 10900k (our 10th gen i9 representative) is trading blows with the 11th gen i9 and i7. I'd call it more of a draw. I mean, After Effects looks to be the one place 11th gen wins outright, then it goes ahead and drops Cinebench. I know that's different but a it's a situation where, with a given workflow, they basically jockey for the same spot. The spot behind Ryzen 5000 series CPUs.

Which is to say if you use your PC to make money, the 5800x is super compelling as it is price competitive on a platform (inclusive of motherboard) and doesn't "sorta win some and lose some" it just wins.
I looked at the type of workloads the OP mentioned. Cinebench isn't one of them. More importantly I made it clear 5800X is the superior option and only considered RKL as the other platform that can deliver modern I/O. (fast storage, Thunderbolt).
 
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JoeRambo

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Jun 13, 2013
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10850K is frankly the deal that is impossible to beat if you have/dont have money for upper tier AMD CPUs ( since they are not available at all in my country ).

5Ghz modern 10C will last a long time. How do I know? Rocking 10900K + 3090 and 32GB of DDR4 here as my main desktop machine.

The OP does not even need Z mobo either, 4XXth gen is best avoided due to Intel 2.5Gbps LAN fiasco ( tho Realtek 2.5gbps is solid ) and memory tuning locks on non Z490.
Something like 150eur class B560 Tomahawk would serve absolutely fine now that memory tuning is back and you can actually go for 3200+.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
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Thanks...it's something to consider.

One thing I think I should make clear, part of the appeal to me for 10850k was to upgrade as little as possible and reuse as much as possible until I was ready to go all in. I can reuse my cooler and ram with a 10850k and I don't know if that would be the case for switching to AMD/5900x. $600 to upgrade to a modern 10core out the door vs $800+ for 5900X.
It seems like you are sold on the 10850K, but if you edit and create content, have you considered the Threadripper platform?

You invested in Intel HEDT in the past, would you consider AMD HEDT right now?

The Zen2 and Zen3 memory controllers are very compatible; I have run budget ram at 16-16-16-16 3200 with no issues on 3600, 3900X and 5800X.

If you need cheap threads right now and are going to Tustin MC, is a 3900X placeholder then a flip for a 5950X in the future an option? That would give you great MT right now.

I'm really disgusted by the thought of $300 Z590 boards, when a really nice X570 can be had for ~$200 and has PCIE4.

MC also has nice in-house brand NVME drives that could give a nice boost for content creation.
 
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2blzd

Senior member
May 16, 2016
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10850K is frankly the deal that is impossible to beat if you have/dont have money for upper tier AMD CPUs ( since they are not available at all in my country ).

5Ghz modern 10C will last a long time. How do I know? Rocking 10900K + 3090 and 32GB of DDR4 here as my main desktop machine.

The OP does not even need Z mobo either, 4XXth gen is best avoided due to Intel 2.5Gbps LAN fiasco ( tho Realtek 2.5gbps is solid ) and memory tuning locks on non Z490.
Something like 150eur class B560 Tomahawk would serve absolutely fine now that memory tuning is back and you can actually go for 3200+.
Right now I have the 10850k + Aorus z590 Elite AX reserved for $585 out the door including tax ($319 for cpu and $219 for motherboard). This is the most appealing because of price and comfort levels.

I found someone locally on craigslist selling a new-in-box sealed 5900x for $649 which is only $50 over retail when you include tax $598ish ...I'd just have to get a motherboard..But the idea of a craigslist purchase with no warranty is scary. He says he has original receipt and invoice so warranty can be used but according to AMD's warranty policy on their website, warranties are non-transferable...mulling this option over.

It seems like you are sold on the 10850K, but if you edit and create content, have you considered the Threadripper platform?

You invested in Intel HEDT in the past, would you consider AMD HEDT right now?

The Zen2 and Zen3 memory controllers are very compatible; I have run budget ram at 16-16-16-16 3200 with no issues on 3600, 3900X and 5800X.
As I mentioned above, I'm looking at $585 out the door for a 10850k + motherboard..That's just really appealing...I could spend more, I just dont particularly want to at the moment. As far as HEDT and threadripper, both great ideas..I'm just a little burnt on HEDT from prior experience and if I'm being honest I'm not at the point or level in my career where I NEED 16+ cores on a regular basis. I've survived off 6 cores for the past 5 years. Also Ive read a lot about the advantages of QuickSync on Intel's iGPU in terms of accelerating endcode/decode on Premiere Pro, which excites me.


I'm still weighing my decisions as you all keep posting really excellent options and alternatives that have me re-thinking everything.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
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I feel like you are nickel and diming yourself; this is a case where cheaper is more expensive. Because any price difference for going AMD will be returned in hours of productivity gained over the length of ownership. The rest is gravy/superior return on investment.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
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www.teamjuchems.com
I feel like you are nickel and diming yourself; this is a case where cheaper is more expensive. Because any price difference for going AMD will be returned in hours of productivity gained over the length of ownership. The rest is gravy/superior return on investment.
This thread has proven to me that I need to swap my 2700x to a 5600x on the rig I use all day every day for my business.

A big difference? Nah. But I am at this workstation ~50 hours a week. It doesn't take much for it to be worth it.
 

2blzd

Senior member
May 16, 2016
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I feel like you are nickel and diming yourself; this is a case where cheaper is more expensive. Because any price difference for going AMD will be returned in hours of productivity gained over the length of ownership. The rest is gravy/superior return on investment.
You're right. This is all self imposed...For whatever reason, ADL-S sounds appealing to me and I just didnt want to go "all-in" on a full build before then. As illogical as it may sound, I don't mind spending $580 now to fill out my 3090 and waiting till this fall/q1 2022 to see whats out from both camps and then buy the whole 9..new ram/case/fans/mobo/cpu. If I could find a 5900x @ retail in a reasonable amount of time, I'd do that..
 

zer0sum

Junior Member
Aug 3, 2009
4
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Right now I have the 10850k + Aorus z590 Elite AX reserved for $585 out the door including tax ($319 for cpu and $219 for motherboard). This is the most appealing because of price and comfort levels.

I found someone locally on craigslist selling a new-in-box sealed 5900x for $649 which is only $50 over retail when you include tax $598ish ...I'd just have to get a motherboard..But the idea of a craigslist purchase with no warranty is scary. He says he has original receipt and invoice so warranty can be used but according to AMD's warranty policy on their website, warranties are non-transferable...mulling this option over.



As I mentioned above, I'm looking at $585 out the door for a 10850k + motherboard..That's just really appealing...I could spend more, I just dont particularly want to at the moment. As far as HEDT and threadripper, both great ideas..I'm just a little burnt on HEDT from prior experience and if I'm being honest I'm not at the point or level in my career where I NEED 16+ cores on a regular basis. I've survived off 6 cores for the past 5 years. Also Ive read a lot about the advantages of QuickSync on Intel's iGPU in terms of accelerating endcode/decode on Premiere Pro, which excites me.


I'm still weighing my decisions as you all keep posting really excellent options and alternatives that have me re-thinking everything.
It's not a bad combo, but that's as good as it gets for it's lifetime. There's no real upgrade path there.
If you look at Ryzen you end up with a very similar priced and well specced X570 motherboard like the ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PRO

Then it's just down to CPU costs, and you can get them at retail pricing if you're patient and willing to jump on the AMD website, or Amazon etc. when they hit.
The next drop direct from AMD should be tomorrow morning between 9am and 2:30pm EST.

There are some great resources out there for getting near instant alerts
The discord link will let you customize your alerts and get notifications really fast :)
 
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2blzd

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May 16, 2016
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It's not a bad combo, but that's as good as it gets for it's lifetime. There's no real upgrade path there.
If you look at Ryzen you end up with a very similar priced and well specced X570 motherboard like the ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PRO

Then it's just down to CPU costs, and you can get them at retail pricing if you're patient and willing to jump on the AMD website, or Amazon etc. when they hit.
The next drop direct from AMD should be tomorrow morning between 9am and 2:30pm EST.

There are some great resources out there for getting near instant alerts
The discord link will let you customize your alerts and get notifications really fast :)
Thank you so much! I actually would prefer to buy on Amazon etc then a brick and mortar store 80 miles away. Will use these resources and try to snag a 5900x, you're the man, I appreciate you.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
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Thank you so much! I actually would prefer to buy on Amazon etc then a brick and mortar store 80 miles away. Will use these resources and try to snag a 5900x, you're the man, I appreciate you.
I got both my 3090FE and 5900x thanks to fixit. Good luck to you!
 

2blzd

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May 16, 2016
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Just for fun, because I'm a #s man, I did some cost/performance analysis of a 10850k vs a 5900x. Both would be using the Aorus Elite Wifi boards for each respective platform. Turns out they're both $219.

$585 vs $837 (prices include mobo cost and tax)

70% of the cost.

I took all the benches from Puget's Premiere and Photoshop RKL benchmark articles for the most recent data. All platforms are using DDR4-3200, which is what I have and would use. (perfect~)

Over 8 total benchmarks, 5 for Premiere and 3 for Photoshop, the 10850k is on average @ 85% of the performance of the 5900x. 83% being the largest gap and 92.5% being the smallest gap. So 85% of the performance for 70% of the cost. Pretty good no?

Just felt like I had to share! :D
 

Rigg

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May 6, 2020
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Just for fun, because I'm a #s man, I did some cost/performance analysis of a 10850k vs a 5900x. Both would be using the Aorus Elite Wifi boards for each respective platform. Turns out they're both $219.

$585 vs $837 (prices include mobo cost and tax)

70% of the cost.

I took all the benches from Puget's Premiere and Photoshop RKL benchmark articles for the most recent data. All platforms are using DDR4-3200, which is what I have and would use. (perfect~)

Over 8 total benchmarks, 5 for Premiere and 3 for Photoshop, the 10850k is on average @ 85% of the performance of the 5900x. 83% being the largest gap and 92.5% being the smallest gap. So 85% of the performance for 70% of the cost. Pretty good no?

Just felt like I had to share! :D
Seems like a reasonable analysis. Considering the 10850k is planned to be an interim solution (future proof argument is out the window) I don't really see any huge downside to it. With the microcenter discount on the CPU & Mobo you should be able to recoup most of your cost when you upgrade it. The 10850k will always be a desirable upgrade to someone rocking a z490/590 platform. Obsolete top tier intel CPU's have tended to grab stupidly high resale on the used market. It wouldn't surprise me if you are able to flip it for more than you paid for it. Plus the interim upgrade will buy yourself time to avoid the early adopter struggles as the BIOS versions mature on the new platforms.
 
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zer0sum

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Aug 3, 2009
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Just for fun, because I'm a #s man, I did some cost/performance analysis of a 10850k vs a 5900x. Both would be using the Aorus Elite Wifi boards for each respective platform. Turns out they're both $219.

$585 vs $837 (prices include mobo cost and tax)

70% of the cost.

I took all the benches from Puget's Premiere and Photoshop RKL benchmark articles for the most recent data. All platforms are using DDR4-3200, which is what I have and would use. (perfect~)

Over 8 total benchmarks, 5 for Premiere and 3 for Photoshop, the 10850k is on average @ 85% of the performance of the 5900x. 83% being the largest gap and 92.5% being the smallest gap. So 85% of the performance for 70% of the cost. Pretty good no?

Just felt like I had to share! :D
Finish the homework and run the numbers for the 5600X and 5800X :D
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
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. 83% being the largest gap and 92.5% being the smallest gap. So 85% of the performance for 70% of the cost. Pretty good no?

Just felt like I had to share! :D
Actually, no, no it's not pretty good. Hypothetically (and I know this is overly simplified) but if at 100% it spends 2000hrs at $30hr that's $60k in productivity. 15% performance loss over that period is $9K. No matter what the real numbers for the productivity to $ calculation is in the real world, I think it takes a perfect 10 in the mental gymnastics floor routine to rationalize buying a slower platform for a time is money project. Particularly over a couple of hundred dollars.

I have recently purchased 2 10th gen Intel combos for bang for buck gaming builds. But I would buy AMD in a hot second for productivity.
 

2blzd

Senior member
May 16, 2016
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Finish the homework and run the numbers for the 5600X and 5800X :D
Haha, you're right! :D



Actually, no, no it's not pretty good. Hypothetically (and I know this is overly simplified) but if at 100% it spends 2000hrs at $30hr that's $60k in productivity. 15% performance loss over that period is $9K. No matter what the real numbers for the productivity to $ calculation is in the real world, I think it takes a perfect 10 in the mental gymnastics floor routine to rationalize buying a slower platform for a time is money project. Particularly over a couple of hundred dollars.

I have recently purchased 2 10th gen Intel combos for bang for buck gaming builds. But I would buy AMD in a hot second for productivity.

I think you're overestimating my editing career and demand, and taking that bit a little too far.

My computer's performance has never effected deadlines or my ability to turn in work on time. If something renders in say 2 hours instead of 1.5 hours, its not like Im going to have to call the client and tell them their project is gonna be late and miss the deadline.

And in your hourly wage scenario you proposed, I'd get paid more because it would it take longer to finish renders with the slower hardware. I'm not some major player in Hollywood with jobs and jobs stacked up. Finishing one job sooner by a few hours has no major impact on my ability to start and finish the next job. I understand your math, but it doesn't translate into the real world like that... slower hardware = more hours so that would mean more money in your scenario, not less.

You mention you would buy AMD in a hot second for productivity. I think most people would, that's a given, but can you actually obtain it in a hot second? The more time I spend waiting and trying to obtain a 5900x, is more time I'm not editing and making money. I can get the 10850k now guaranteed and improve my performance ASAP. Or I can play the F5 game and continue to edit on a 6 year old 6c.

Either way I appreciate your perspective and insight.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
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Haha, you're right! :D






I think you're overestimating my editing career and demand, and taking that bit a little too far.

My computer's performance has never effected deadlines or my ability to turn in work on time. If something renders in say 2 hours instead of 1.5 hours, its not like Im going to have to call the client and tell them their project is gonna be late and miss the deadline. Now you tell us.

And in your hourly wage scenario you proposed, I'd get paid more because it would it take longer to finish renders with the slower hardware. That's not what I meant to impart. The idea is that is how many dollars in productivity it is worth, not what you are getting paid hourly. I did a poor job with my example.

I'm not some major player in Hollywood with jobs and jobs stacked up. Finishing one job sooner by a few hours has no major impact on my ability to start and finish the next job. I understand your math, but it doesn't translate into the real world like that... slower hardware = more hours so that would mean more money in your scenario, not less. See my previous comment.

You mention you would buy AMD in a hot second for productivity. I think most people would, that's a given, but can you actually obtain it in a hot second? Yes. While you are here debating me, I could have already bought one, because I don't nickel and dime myself if it is about business. I ran my own biz for many years, and understand you spend money to make money. I would have already bought one in a prebuilt or paid a couple of $100 markup so I could get to making that cheddar. In fact, if Threadripper is significantly faster than both at the task, I would have paid up for it. Time is your only real currency, and you have a finite supply.

The more time I spend waiting and trying to obtain a 5900x, is more time I'm not editing and making money. I can get the 10850k now guaranteed and improve my performance ASAP. Or I can play the F5 game and continue to edit on a 6 year old 6c. That is one way to look at it. Let me provide another. You know why miners are paying crazy money for vid cards right? Because they expect a ROI that more than justifies it. As you just admitted a faster system will make you more money, why you would cheese on the performance for what is chump change in the scheme of things, is beyond me.

Either way I appreciate your perspective and insight. No worries mate. Again, buy what you want. I write these replies more for readers looking for guidance. Reddit, forums, tech tubers, and viral marketers make it difficult for many, especially the novice, to separate the proverbial wheat from the chaff. I do my best to be an advocate for them. As opposed to pumping a company that I hold stock in, viral market for, or have warm feels about (the weirdest one)
Responses in bold.
 

moonbogg

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Jan 8, 2011
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Actually, no, no it's not pretty good. Hypothetically (and I know this is overly simplified) but if at 100% it spends 2000hrs at $30hr that's $60k in productivity. 15% performance loss over that period is $9K. No matter what the real numbers for the productivity to $ calculation is in the real world, I think it takes a perfect 10 in the mental gymnastics floor routine to rationalize buying a slower platform for a time is money project. Particularly over a couple of hundred dollars.

I have recently purchased 2 10th gen Intel combos for bang for buck gaming builds. But I would buy AMD in a hot second for productivity.
In general, I agree with this completely. There are exceptions and I think the OP may be one of them. I'm also in that camp (sort of). Most people who "do work" on their computer aren't sitting around waiting on large, CPU hungry operations to complete. For those who do work like that, then Ryzen is the only choice. It just is. It completely mauls anything Intel has to offer. We know how bad it is for Intel here, and it's ugly. But for those like the OP who've been getting by fine on an older 6 core, then a cheaper stop-gap 10 core is a good move and is already more than enough power likely.
I do work on my PC also, but it's drafting and design work and it doesn't give a crap what kind of CPU you have (within reason). So, I find it hard to justify spending so much more on a Ryzen chip when a 10850K is in the $300 range or 10700K is $250. Once the 10th gen is gone and it's between Alder Lake and the next Ryzen chips, they will both be expensive anyway, so at that point you just go with the best one. If a 12700K is $400 and a new Ryzen is $450 and the Ryzen is faster, at that point I just get the Ryzen. This is the same reason people have purchased enough R5 3600's to form a literal mountain if you put them all in one place, despite Intel being much faster for gaming and everything else than that particular chip. Price matters for most people.
 

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