Most of the info I've read says a current card like an NVidia 6800GT will draw something like 6 amps under load, which will still leave you with 16A left for everything else (PLENTY!).
I'm not sure if Flexy is talking about future cards that will draw more power or what (I've never seen a current vid card that actually draws 10 amps except for workstation-class stuff).
22 amps SUSTAINED on a 12V rail is middle-high-end. If you look at the majority of generic PSUs out there that claims to be "500W", you will see that they don't put out more than 18 amps PEAK (nevermind sustained) on the 12V rail.
The PSU/mobo/CPU combo I listed is one of the tried-and-true preferred configs for HTPC builders, and they usually add something like an NVidia 6600 vid card plus multiple tuner and capture cards, as well as large HDs for storing all the PVR-recorded TV programs. 22 amps is definitely plenty.
I'm not sure if Flexy is talking about future cards that will draw more power or what (I've never seen a current vid card that actually draws 10 amps except for workstation-class stuff).
22 amps SUSTAINED on a 12V rail is middle-high-end. If you look at the majority of generic PSUs out there that claims to be "500W", you will see that they don't put out more than 18 amps PEAK (nevermind sustained) on the 12V rail.
The PSU/mobo/CPU combo I listed is one of the tried-and-true preferred configs for HTPC builders, and they usually add something like an NVidia 6600 vid card plus multiple tuner and capture cards, as well as large HDs for storing all the PVR-recorded TV programs. 22 amps is definitely plenty.
Wisdom:
I have done a lot of "homework" on Sunday and I finally decided on a few things.
Buying this AMD Athlon64 3000+ "Winchester" is a no-brainer. Alos, choosing this Forton Source 500W P/S is as equally a no-brainer. I have never owned or used a Fortron Source P/S before but I have heard good things about their P/S. This model is rated at 30A on the 3.3V rail, 28A on the 5V rail, and 15A on EACH of the TWO 12V rails. I think using a dual-rail 12V P/S for a PCI-E rig is a smart option based on what I've been reading here at Anandtech and "around" the web.
For the motherboard I am going with either this Gigabyte Socket 939 nFORCE 4 motherboard or this MSI Socket 939 nFORCE 4 motherboard as they have the required PCI-E slot for the PCI-E graphics card and both have enough PCI slots for legacy items. The MSI board, however, does NOT have any onboard firewire but I don't know that I'll need that although it would be nice to have it onboard and not have to purchase a firewire add-on card if I discovered I needed one down the road.
I seriously considered this SOLTEK Socket 939 nFORCE 4 motherboard but it has a few limitations. For starters it only has 2 PCI slots and one of them may be unusable because of its close proximity to the PCI-E slot. The PCI-E slot is located in a poor position on the board for good cooling of the graphics card. Check this recent thread on this mobo here at ANANDTECH for "proof" of this opinion. Furthermore, for some insane reason, Soltek elected to opt for only a 20 pin ATX connector on the motherboard with no internal support for the extra juice (and split 12V rails) that most people at this forum suggest are a requirement for a PCI-E motherboard.
It's a shame because their SL-K890Pro-939 VIA K8T890 chipset has been getting GREAT review all over the world. Here is a link to 11 other sites around the world where they have found this board to be excellent!!!
I have dealt with via-based boards in the past and my experience has always been less than enjoyable even though VIA has come a LONG way in the quality/reliability of their chipsets in the last few years!!! The SL-K890Pro-939 is available here at NewEgg and everyone there seems to like it too !!! Everyone claims it is a feature-rich board; I notice it (like the OTHER Soltek board) has only 2 legacy PCI slots and only a 20 pin P/S connector but it DOES have a more intelligent placing of the PCI-E 16 graphics card and other slots/connectors. Do you think I should consider THIS board ???
I've done a LOT of videocard research here at ANANDTECH and over at Toms. I found what I think might be a good value for the performance quotient with this thsi ASUS Radeon X700 card for $112.50 delivered from Newegg. I am also considering this standard GeFORCE 6600 by Asus for $119.50.
Each card has an 8 pixel pipeline and 3 vertex shaders and are based on a 0.11 micron fab. I don't know how may ROPS (Raster Operation Pipes) each chipset contains and I realize their Pixel Fillrates and Triangle Transform rates (and some other factors) are different but the two different chipsets have a LOT in common!
The biggest difference between the two I can find is that the standard GeFORCE 6600 has a 128bit memory interface x 500MHz memory clock divided by 8 bits/byte = 8000 MB/s (8GB/s) theoretical memory bandwidth while the Radeon X700-based card has a 128 bit memory interface x 700 MHz memory clock divided by 8bits/byte = 11,200 MB/s (11.2 GB/s) theoretical memory bandwidth.
So with the pixel pipeline and vertex shaders being roughly equivalent but the memory bandwith of the Radeon x700 being 40% GREATER than the GeFORCE 6600 card I THINK that (at $6.50 LESS money) the RADEON x700 with the ASUS-quality name is the way to go. WHAT DO YOU THINK???
My only OTHER"video" idea is to go with this Radeon x300 for now based on information obtained from this article over at Toms. I'd use it as a temporary solution until I went with this GeFORCE 6600GT later on based on information obtained in this April 2005 article over here at Toms !!!
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT ???
I have deiced it's a no-brainer to go with this STANDARD TV ATI Tuner here at NewEgg based on information in this April 12, 2005 article here at ANANDTECH !
As far as RAM is concerned I've decided on this 1 GB (512MB X 2) Patriot Cas 2.-3-2-5 at $135 because it is lower latency and costs less than this higher latency Mushkin here at Neweggg and this or this higher latency and more expensive RAM from Mushkin DIRECT.
So really the ONLY TWO BIG diemmas facing me are the:
1) mobo diemma described above
and
2) the videocard dilemma described above
Any help ANY of you can give me on this will be GREATLY appreciated !!!!
I will order the parts I've decided upon early Monday morning and await HELP on deciding WHICH MOBO and VIDEOCARD option to go with.
THANKS,
Greg
I see that justification for going with the Asus Radeon X700 card (if I go the $110 dollar card route) is justified by this article here at Anadtech !!! 
Greg
Greg
kitkat22
Golden Member
- Feb 10, 2005
- 1,464
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I personally was considering the soltek and from reading the reviews would go with the board. Are you actually using any PCI legacy devices? With the video card you'll get good results either way. I'm personally a fan of ATI, but others will argue against that. If you have the funds get the X700. Overall it would save you some money.
Hi cscpianoman.
THANK YOU for you "pat on the back".
As I mentioned in the thread I think I"m going to go with this farily low latency 1 GB pack at NewEgg INSTEAD of something like this popular Corsair VALUERAM 1 GB pack at NewEgg !
Thanks again,
Greg
THANK YOU for you "pat on the back".
As I mentioned in the thread I think I"m going to go with this farily low latency 1 GB pack at NewEgg INSTEAD of something like this popular Corsair VALUERAM 1 GB pack at NewEgg !
Thanks again,
Greg
NO Problem cscpianoman. May I ask you which of the TWO Soltek boards, the nFORCE 4 -based board or the Via K8T890-based Soltek are you recommending ???
Thanks,
Greg
Thanks,
Greg
i'd still say that the ati motherboard would be a good choice for you, it basically has a x300se onboard card which will get you by until you have money for a much better one. if not i'd go with the gigabyte board with the x700 card. its definately a better card than the 6600 in everything but doom. also your memory choice isn't bad but i'd still recommend the G.skill memory as it is cheaper and still has the tight timings.
To save time I'll "paste" two responses I left at another thread. With the exception of the mobo we are on the same "track".
and then this one:
See what I mean ???
So the MOBO decision is the LAST thing I have to make.
Greg
and then this one:
See what I mean ???
So the MOBO decision is the LAST thing I have to make.
Greg
The ATI-based MSI board is ALSO out-of-stock.
I read the anandtech Article on that ati chipset and I'm STILL not ENTIRELY sold.
The board is awfully small (micro ATX) and cramped - the IDE, floppy and P/S connectors are AWFULLY close together and there are only 3 other slots (Standard PCI) besides the PCI-E graphics slot. Hmmmm, I still have the board on my NewEgg wishlist. I may dl the manual from ATI if I can and see if I can learn any more about it.
Of my remaining three board choices BESIDES the MSI- ATI which one would you suggest ????
That's actually a good thing. Throw it into a full- or mid-tower and be amazed at how spacious things are because of the small board.
Also, the Fortron Blue Storm is not the best choice, not at that price. That PSU does not have active PFC and is not particularly quiet. And pray tell why do you need 15 amps on two rails if you are not building a mega-gaming machine? The only reason to get that much amps is if you are going to run an SLI rig.
A Seasonic S12-430 will cost you $85 at PC Alchemy, has dual rail with comparable amperages, active PFC, and is 80% efficient throughout its operating range, a MUCH better PSU than the Blue Storm for a few bucks less even. Like its lower-power cousin the Super Tornado 400, the S12 is also one of the quietest PSUs your money can buy. (PC Alchemy also has the MSI RS480 in stock for $85.)
I leave it up to you your choice of mobo and vid card-- You have all the information to make a decision. Good luck.
Before I throw in my hat, I got a few questions: What's with the bold/caps/"kiddy" talk? Sorry, I had to let that out.
Alright, now on the helpful side of things.
If you're not planning on gaming, honestly I'd avoid the SLi route - read around, and people will tell ya it's more of a hassle than it's worth.
Ok - it doens't sound like you're a big overclocker, so I woudln't recommend a DFI board.
Here's what I'd recommend:
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103935 Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-400 ATX12V 400W $59.00
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128283 Gigabyte K8N-Ultra 9 $143.00
Since your hard drive isn't NCQ (I don't think it is - sorry it's on the previous page), you could also get the ABit nforce4 motherboard
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127197
I heard that was pretty stable as well.
-The Pentium Guy
Alright, now on the helpful side of things
.If you're not planning on gaming, honestly I'd avoid the SLi route - read around, and people will tell ya it's more of a hassle than it's worth.
Ok - it doens't sound like you're a big overclocker, so I woudln't recommend a DFI board.
Here's what I'd recommend:
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103935 Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-400 ATX12V 400W $59.00
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128283 Gigabyte K8N-Ultra 9 $143.00
Since your hard drive isn't NCQ (I don't think it is - sorry it's on the previous page), you could also get the ABit nforce4 motherboard
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127197
I heard that was pretty stable as well.
-The Pentium Guy
I would go for:
1) OCZ Modstream
2) K8N Neo4 Platinum
3) Athlon 64 3000+
4) 2 512mb CVS sticks
5)That x700 that you wanted i guess
6) XP Home, or Pro I guess
That looks similar to my system, and I havent had any problems yet.
1) OCZ Modstream
2) K8N Neo4 Platinum
3) Athlon 64 3000+
4) 2 512mb CVS sticks
5)That x700 that you wanted i guess
6) XP Home, or Pro I guess
That looks similar to my system, and I havent had any problems yet.
Sho: I appreciate ANY suggestions... and it is NOT the vidcard that is out of stock, in fact I ordered the Asus/ATI X700 Sunday. It was the ATI mobo and the G.Skill RAM that were out of stock.
Wisdomtooth:
You do have a LOT of wisdom so I find out. I was exhausted over the weekend and the concept of PFC (Power Factor Correction) went right out the door when I was hunting for Power Supplies. The Fortron does have passive PFC but I realize that active PFC is the best choice because it utilizes a circuit to correct power factor, is able to generate a theoretical power factor of up to 95%, markedly diminishes total harmonics, automatically corrects for AC input voltage, and is capable of a full range of input voltage. Also, the Seasonic S12-430 you mentioned is available for $85 plus shipping over at PCAlchemy.
Unfortuneately, the Fortron is already on its way to my door from NewEgg. Actually, I've never before owned a PC that's used a P/S with active PFC and they all seem to "get by" somehow.
Because a P/S with passive PFC may be affected when environmental vibration occurs I am going to purchase this Antec Power Supply and Case Fan Vibration Dampening Kit.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Greg
I have very poor vision; that's why I use the CAPS and the BOLD. I can find no way to increase font size in the options available in these thread reply boxes. If you know of a way for me to increase my font size PLEASE let me know.
The P/S you suggest does NOT have ACTIVE PFC.
The Abit motherboard you suggested has its chipset w/hsf located in a position that could interfere with the use of two of the PCI-E slots. And what is it with that WIERD dual-fan setup at the back of the board??? I know it's for cooling but it seems like overkill. I guess those Abit overclockers need all the cooling they can get.
Now, to be less sarcastic, one of my mobo choices is the Gigabyte GA-K8NF-9, the less expensive version of the Gigabyte K8N-Ultra 9 you suggest. I've compared their features and I can't really see a big difference between it and it's little sister Gigabyte GA-K8NF-9. If you can explain to me WHY the Gigabyte K8N-Ultra 9 is a better choice than the Gigabyte GA-K8NF-9 I will be HAPPY to listen.
Thank You !
Very sorry about that, I'm sorry if I offended you.
Heh, to increase font size? Easy.
a) Increase (or decrease actually) your resolution
b) In internet explorer just go to View | Text Size | Largest
.You're right about that powersupply, I guess I picked it in a hurry.
I'd go with the Seasonic that others have suggested.
Yeah, abit is known for their stability, that so called "OTES Cooling" is for their Mosfets.
The higher end board has an "OTES RAM FLOW" which is a little floater thing that blows air right into the ram.
There are several advantages to the Ultra-9 as opposed to the K8NF-9, somewhat minor anyways.
1) The pretty box
2) More cables included
3) Dual BIOS
That's pretty much the only big difference between them.
The K8NF-9, like the Abit, is nforce4 as opposed to nforce4 ultra. It's missing features like ActiveArmor (Firewall) and SATA II / NCQ. Pretty much it.
Hope that helps a bit.
-The Pentium Guy
Originally posted by: The Pentium Guy
Very sorry about that, I'm sorry if I offended you.
Heh, to increase font size? Easy.
a) Increase (or decrease actually) your resolution
b) In internet explorer just go to View | Text Size | Largest
You're right about that powersupply, I guess I picked it in a hurry.
I'd go with the Seasonic that others have suggested.
Yeah, abit is known for their stability, that so called "OTES Cooling" is for their Mosfets.
The higher end board has an "OTES RAM FLOW" which is a little floater thing that blows air right into the ram.
There are several advantages to the Ultra-9 as opposed to the K8NF-9, somewhat minor anyways.
1) The pretty box
2) More cables included
3) Dual BIOS
That's pretty much the only big difference between them.
The K8NF-9, like the Abit, is nforce4 as opposed to nforce4 ultra. It's missing features like ActiveArmor (Firewall) and SATA II / NCQ. Pretty much it.
Hope that helps a bit.
-The Pentium Guy
Pentium:
No you didn't offend me about the caps and bold thing; when I've posted at other threads lately I've been told the same thing by other people. Thanks for the "IE font size" and "screen resolution" suggestions. Fortuneaely I'm informed enough to have been aware of those options for years. The biggest problem with both those options is EVERYTHING becomes big and not just font size. Deceasing screen resolution, of course, makes the windows and everything so large that you can hardly "fit" anything on the screen. Increasing the font size in internet explorer makes the font size of text which is already large become TOO BIG. A good compromise is that some programs have ways to increase the font size just within the program you are using (like should be available in this text window in which I am straining to see the text). Too bad there isn't a "preference setting" somewhere on the forum site to increase font size for us old guys with poor eyesite. But I have to remember that MOST of the folks the come here are people young enough to be my children ( I'm 46 ) !!!
No problem on the P/S suggestion, anyone could make that mistake, lol. I did this weekend when I orderd the $93 Forton Source 500W P/S with only passive PFC. Oh well, sometimes I feel I can't do anything right, lol.
The Abit board is unusual isn't it? It's not my cup ot tea though, lol.
Yeah, the DUAL BIOS is about the only interesting feature on the Gigabyte K8N-Ultra 9 board that isn't available on the GA-K8NF-9; funny I thought that was pretty well standard on ALL Gigabyte boards by now; heck even AOpen is using a similar feature on many of their boards.
I need to ask you though, what is the importance of having ActiveArmor when one has a good software firewall? And what are the benefits of SATA II over SATA - two of the features available on a board with the nForce 4 Ultra chip.
And what is NCQ ???
I have not been keeping up as well these last two years as I used so I apologize for not knowing about SATA II and NCQ. I'll be back in the groove sometime this year, lol.
If ActiveArmor, SATA II and NCQ important features to have for future upgrading than I would probably be willing to shell out the extra bucks for an nForce 4 ULTRA board.
Thanks for a response to the above questions,
Greg
sata II will give you nothing since 7200rpm drives are no where near maxing out sata 150 or even ide. ncq is native command queuing, which basically is used in certain drives to access files sequentially as possible instead of jumping all over the platter. in reality it offers anywhere from lower performance to slightly better performance.
i really wouldn't worry about the firewall, its a nice feature to have but realistically for the home user windows xp sp2 firewall is adequate. also many users already have a hardware firewall in their router if they have high speed internet.
i really wouldn't worry about the firewall, its a nice feature to have but realistically for the home user windows xp sp2 firewall is adequate. also many users already have a hardware firewall in their router if they have high speed internet.
Sho, good to see you.
Current SATA drives aren't "maxing out" SATA 150 but will FUTURE drives (one available in the next couple of years) be able to take advantage of SATA II ???
I've been meaning to pm you today to tell you I received an in-stock notice from NewEgg on the G.Skill RAM you had suggested.
Looks like I messed up on the RAM as well as the power supply. If the G.Skill can reliably perform as well as the Patriot RAM I ordered and at the same timings then I could have saved about $30 by opting for the G.Skill.
I went ahead Sunday and ordered the Fortron P/S, the Asus x700 videocard and the Patriot 1 GB pack.
I'm still deciding on the Mobo but I'm getting closer to a decision.
The CPU decision had been made before you suggested the same one I'll be ordering; the AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Socket 939 "Winchester". With CPU prices changing (usually dropping) so suddenly I'm not going to make the same mistake I've made before and so I'm going to order the CPU last. Maybe in a week its price will drop, lol.
I should have listened to you and Wisdom more than I did but I am stubborn and I am not too wise, lol.
So you don't think the added features of the Ultra version of the nFORCE 4 chip are worth the extra money?
Your "light" shows you are online. I hope you respond to this before the evening is over.
Thanks again for all your suggestions.
Greg
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