Damn this is a good thread. I came in originally just looking for a good deal on protein and now've I've got numberous suggestions of great supplement sites and a 5% off coupon that storm897 generoursly sent me. Now I've even got a debate about protein sources lol. Good stuff. 100% whey tastes better than soy anyways! End of discussion (kidding)
Coupon sent. Also, just a reminder.
Before you register with ezpricematch.com, ask for the coupon mailed to your email and once you have it register. Otherwise they wont accpet a coupon being sent to a email they have in there database.
Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Or are you just trying desperately to remember the random things youve read about on the internet?
Storm
Thanks for the coupon! I checked their price after coupon & price matching to the place I usually buy Optimum whey (5lb containers) and found my place to still be cheaper. I use claytonnutrition.com. Their web prices are higher but if you email them a bulk order (I usually order 6 or more 5lb containers) they will sell them for $22 per container with free shipping.
Thanks
Jim
Thanks for the coupon! I checked their price after coupon & price matching to the place I usually buy Optimum whey (5lb containers) and found my place to still be cheaper. I use claytonnutrition.com. Their web prices are higher but if you email them a bulk order (I usually order 6 or more 5lb containers) they will sell them for $22 per container with free shipping.
Thanks
Jim
kotix, if you want to take the halfway academically respectable measure of providing footnotes tosomeone else's work, you need to cite them! Block-quoting without attribution is known as plagiarism in the "real world" -- and even in the rough & tumble of the Internet, it's simply good manners to acknowledge others.
On a completely different topic:
To make tasty protein shakes, mix in sugar-free instant pudding. Try mixing this:
40-50 g of vanilla whey
approx. 1/3 pack of Jello sugar-free pistachio pudding
2 packs sweetener (Nutrasweet, Splenda, etc.)
big handful of ice
24 oz. of cold water
Blend until smooth, about 2 minutes. Crushing the ice as a first step makes it go faster. If you need fiber, or want a thicker shake, mix in unflavored psyllium powder (aka, Metamucil). Walmart has a cheap store brand; 1 rounded tsp. should be enough. Milk also thickens.
For an Orange Julius-alike:
40-50 g vanilla whey protein
1/3 pack vanilla SF pudding
8 oz. orange juice
16 oz. cold water
1 pack sweetener
big handful of ice
Other personal favorites would be choc. whey + Nestle sugar-free Quik + butterscotch SF pudding; choc. whey + choc. pudding + SF Quick + mint extract.
For a shake somewhat high in calories, but very similar to McDonalds' vanilla shake:
40-50 g vanilla whey (also great with strawberry whey)
4 heaping tsp. vanilla SF pudding
5 heaping tsp. Jello cheesecake instant pudding (unfortunately not available sugar-free)
ice + water (less water than above)
2 packs sweetener
On a completely different topic:
To make tasty protein shakes, mix in sugar-free instant pudding. Try mixing this:
40-50 g of vanilla whey
approx. 1/3 pack of Jello sugar-free pistachio pudding
2 packs sweetener (Nutrasweet, Splenda, etc.)
big handful of ice
24 oz. of cold water
Blend until smooth, about 2 minutes. Crushing the ice as a first step makes it go faster. If you need fiber, or want a thicker shake, mix in unflavored psyllium powder (aka, Metamucil). Walmart has a cheap store brand; 1 rounded tsp. should be enough. Milk also thickens.
For an Orange Julius-alike:
40-50 g vanilla whey protein
1/3 pack vanilla SF pudding
8 oz. orange juice
16 oz. cold water
1 pack sweetener
big handful of ice
Other personal favorites would be choc. whey + Nestle sugar-free Quik + butterscotch SF pudding; choc. whey + choc. pudding + SF Quick + mint extract.
For a shake somewhat high in calories, but very similar to McDonalds' vanilla shake:
40-50 g vanilla whey (also great with strawberry whey)
4 heaping tsp. vanilla SF pudding
5 heaping tsp. Jello cheesecake instant pudding (unfortunately not available sugar-free)
ice + water (less water than above)
2 packs sweetener
References
1) Strauss, et al. "Genistein exerts estrogen-like effects in male mouse reproductive tract," Mol Cell Endocrinol 1998 Sep 25;144(1-2);83-93
2) Casanova M, et al. "Developmental effects of dietary phytoestrogens in Sprague-Dawley rats and interactions of genistein and diadzein with rat estrogen receptors alpha and beta in vitro," Toxicol Sci 1999 Oct;51(2):236-44
3) Kumi-Diaka J, et al. "Cytotoxic potential of the phytochemical genistein isoflavone and certain environmental chemical compounds on testicular cells," Biol Cell, 1999 Sep;91 (7): 515-23
4) Anderson, et al. "Effect of various genotoxins and reproductive toxins in human lymphocytes and sperm in Comet assay," Teratog Carcinog Mutagen 1997;17(1);29-43
5) Hopert, et al. "Characterization of estrogenicity of phytoestrogens in an endometrial-derived experimental model," Environ Health Perspect 1998 Sep;106(9); 581-6
6) Setchell, et al. "Dietary Estrogens?a probable cause of infertility and liver disease in captive cheetahs," Gasteroenterology 1987 Aug;93(2);225-33
References Cited
1.Breinholt V, et al. "Estrogenic activity of flavonoids in mice. The importance of estrogen receptor distribution, metabolism and bioavailability." Food Chem Toxicol 2000 Jul;38(7):555-64
2.Casanova M, et al. "Developmental effects of dietary phytoestrogens in Sprague-Dawley rats and interactions of genistein and daidzein with rat estrogen receptors alpha and beta in vitro." Toxicol Sci 1999 Oct;51(2):236-44
3.Stahl S, et al. "Phytoestrogens act as estrogen agonists in an estrogen-responsive pituitary cell line." Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 1998 Sep;152(1):41-8
4.Zhong, et al. "Effects of dietary supplement of soy protein isolate and low fat diet on prostate cancer." FASEB J 2000;14(4):a531.11
5.Nagata C, et al. "Inverse association of soy product intake with serum androgen and estrogen concentrations in Japanese men." Nutr Cancer 2000;36(1):14-8.
6.Habito RC, et al. "Effects of replacing meat with soyabean in the diet on sex hormone concentrations in healthy adult males." Br J Nutr 2000 Oct;84(4):557-63
7.Strauss L, et al. "Genistein exerts estrogen-like effects in male mouse reproductive tract." Mol Cell Endocrinol 1998 Sep 25;144(1-2):83-93
8.Santell RC, et al. "Dietary genistein exerts estrogenic effects upon the uterus, mammary gland and the hypothalamic/pituitary axis in rats." J Nutr 1997 Feb;127(2):263-9
9.Harrison RM, et al. "Effect of genistein on steroid hormone production in the pregnant rhesus monkey." Proc Soc Exp Biol Med 1999 Oct;222(1):78-84
10.Zand RS, et al. "Steroid hormone activity of flavonoids and related compounds." Breast Cancer Res Treat 2000 Jul;62(1):35-49
11.Nagel SC, et al. "The effective free fraction of estradiol and xenoestrogens in human serum measured by whole cell uptake assays: physiology of delivery modifies estrogenic activity." Proc Soc Exp Biol Med 1998 Mar;217(3):300-9
12.Aukema HM, Housini I. "Dietary soy protein effects on disease and IGF-1 in male and female Han:SPDR-cy rats." Kidney Int 2001 Jan;59(1):52-61
13.Klein M, et al. "Energy metabolism and thyroid hormone levels of growing rats in response to different dietary proteins?soy or casein." Arch Tierernahr 2000;53(2):99-125.
14.Flynn KM, et al. "Effects of genistein exposure on sexually dimorphic behaviors in rats." Toxicol Sci 2000 Jun;55(2):311-9
15.Atanassova N, et al. "Comparative effects of neonatal exposure of male rats to potent and weak (environmental) estrogens on spermatogenesis at puberty and the relationship to adult testis size and fertility: evidence for stimulatory effects of low estrogen levels." Endocrinology 2000 Oct;141(10):3898-907
16.Whitten PL, et al. "Phytoestrogen influences on the development of behavior and gonadotropin function." Proc Soc Exp Biol Med 1995 Jan;208(1):82-6
17.Kumi-Diaka J, et al. "Cytotoxic potential of the phytochemical genistein isoflavone (4',5',7-trihydroxyisoflavone) and certain environmental chemical compounds on testicular cells." Biol Cell 1999 Sep;91(7):515-23
18.Ashton E, Ball M. "Effects of soy as tofu vs meat on lipoprotein concentrations." Eur J Clin Nutr 2000 Jan;54(1):14-9
19.Madani S, et al. "Dietary protein level and origin (casein and highly purified soybean protein) affect hepatic storage, plasma lipid transport, and antioxidative defense status in the rat." Nutrition 2000 May;16(5):368-75.
20.Risbridger G, et al. "Evidence that epithelial and mesenchymal estrogen receptor-alpha mediates effects of estrogen on prostatic epithelium." Dev Biol 2001 Jan 15;229(2):432-442
21.Schadereit R, et al. "Whole body protein turnover of growing rats in response to different dietary proteins?soy protein or casein." Arch Tierernahr 1999;52(4):311-21
22.Ji S, et al. "Soybean isoflavones, genistein and genistin, inhibit rat myoblast proliferation, fusion and myotube protein synthesis." J Nutr 1999 Jul;129(7):1291-7
23.Keung WM. "Dietary estrogenic isoflavones are potent inhibitors of beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase of P. testosteronii." Biochem Biophys Res Commun 1995 Oct 24;215(3):1137-44
References
1. Atanassova N (2000). Comparative Effects of Neonatal Exposure of Male Rats to Potent and Weak (Environmental) Estrogens on Spermatogenesis at Puberty and the Relationship to Adult Testis Size and Fertility: Evidence for Stimulatory Effects of Low Estrogen Levels. Endocrinology Vol. 141, No. 10 3898-3907
2. Chorazy PA (1995). Persistent hypothyroidism in an infant receiving a soy formula: case report and review of the literature. Pediatrics Jul: 96 (1 Pt 1): 148-50
3. Irvine CHG (1998). Phytoestrogens in soy-based infant foods: concentrations, daily intake, and possible biological effects. Proc Soc Exp Biol Med1998 Mar; 217 (3): 247-53)
4. Lohrke B (2001). Activation of skeletal muscle protein breakdown following consumption of soybean protein in pigs. Br J Nutr 2001 Apr; 85 (4): 447-57
5. Nagata C (2000). Inverse association of soy product intake with serum androgen and estrogen concentrations in Japanese men. Nutr Cancer; 36 (1): 14-8
6. Newbold RR (2001). Uterine Adenocarcinoma in Mice Treated Neonatally with Genistein. Cancer Research 61, 4325-4328
7. Pollard M (2000). Prevention of spontaneous prostate-related cancer in Lobund-Wistar rats by soy protein isolate/isoflavone diet. Prostate 2000 Oct 1; 45 (2): 101-5
8. Strauss L (1998). Genistein exerts estrogen-like effects in male mouse reproductive tract. Mol Cell Endocrinol Sep 25; 144 (1-2): 83-93
9. Weber KS (2001). Dietary soy-phytoestrogens decrease testosterone levels and prostate weight without altering LH, prostate 5alpha-reductase or testicular steroidogenic acute regulatory peptide levels in adult male Sprague-Dawley rats. J Endocrinol Sep; 170 (3): 591-9
Couple of points I've picked reading elsewhere that probably fall within the scope of your prolific post:
1. In the american food industry, soybean oil is virtually in everything (a point you alluded to). What's worse is that it often is of the partially hydrogenated variety, which is seemingly worse that artery-clogging saturated fat. So if you want to avoid soy, you have to basically not buy pre-processed, pre-packaged foods, which is the typical person does. Moreover, who knows what's in animal feed?!
2. I've read about some of those studies of asian diets. They also point out that soy is a relatively small portion of the meal. For example in Japan you would almost assuredly also have a fish or seafood portion too. It is thought that the effects of the soy isoflavones is mitigated by the inclusion of other proteins in the same meal.
3. although research into soy has been around for a long time, the larger number of soy products being brought out is relatively recent. I've read it argued that the way to introduce a new food into the popular culture is first to target a small group of people and then the momentum picks up from there. Soy I believe was long-known for an alternative to baby formula for lactose intolerance, and more recently it's been targeted at affluent people seeking ways to be "healthy" (read: Baby-Boomer generation).
Just some food for thought
1. In the american food industry, soybean oil is virtually in everything (a point you alluded to). What's worse is that it often is of the partially hydrogenated variety, which is seemingly worse that artery-clogging saturated fat. So if you want to avoid soy, you have to basically not buy pre-processed, pre-packaged foods, which is the typical person does. Moreover, who knows what's in animal feed?!
2. I've read about some of those studies of asian diets. They also point out that soy is a relatively small portion of the meal. For example in Japan you would almost assuredly also have a fish or seafood portion too. It is thought that the effects of the soy isoflavones is mitigated by the inclusion of other proteins in the same meal.
3. although research into soy has been around for a long time, the larger number of soy products being brought out is relatively recent. I've read it argued that the way to introduce a new food into the popular culture is first to target a small group of people and then the momentum picks up from there. Soy I believe was long-known for an alternative to baby formula for lactose intolerance, and more recently it's been targeted at affluent people seeking ways to be "healthy" (read: Baby-Boomer generation).
Just some food for thought
I read the article. How do I get those BCAA and other stuff? Is it something I can buy, if so what product is it?
Storm897: How did you get the glutamine, and dextrose and stuff?
Whey protein has everything you need as far as proteins go seizure... unless its a real craptastic kind of protein...
BCAA are branched chain amino acids that are included in whey protein... glutamine is another amino acid that is in whey...
dextrose is a complex sugar that you can find in some foods... do a little research... I think banana's have a good amount... the dextrose is to spike insulin which inhibits cortisol from breaking down proteins as fast... thus your body has more to work with right after workout... so its good to get an insulin spike after workout, but to steer clear of it most the rest of the day
BCAA are branched chain amino acids that are included in whey protein... glutamine is another amino acid that is in whey...
dextrose is a complex sugar that you can find in some foods... do a little research... I think banana's have a good amount... the dextrose is to spike insulin which inhibits cortisol from breaking down proteins as fast... thus your body has more to work with right after workout... so its good to get an insulin spike after workout, but to steer clear of it most the rest of the day
Man, I am doing a bulking right now and I started taking Soy protein like 2-3weeks agao and I have not gained much weight anymore I am mixing one scoop of soy protein with one scoop of whey. I will use only whey and add some eggs to it. can I get a cupon too. my email is:
juan_luevano@hotmail.com
I am mixing one scoop of soy protein with one scoop of whey. I will use only whey and add some eggs to it. can I get a cupon too. my email is:juan_luevano@hotmail.com
kotix, I of course saw the references included with what I assume are gigantic cut & pastes of others' writing. Who are you quoting? Or are we to believe that you essentially wrote a term paper (broken into several parts that don't relate to one another) for the people reading this post?
I'm not arguing with the findings cited. But if you want this huge disgorgement of information to function as a way of scientifically validating your viewpoint, your method of doing so is antithetical to academics.
I'm not arguing with the findings cited. But if you want this huge disgorgement of information to function as a way of scientifically validating your viewpoint, your method of doing so is antithetical to academics.
what's more important, the information which supports an argument, or the title/author? i pasted several articles from diff. boards which accounts for the divergence from one work to the next.
i'm merely posting information. i'm just pointing out there's more than enough studies which suggests the adverse affects of soy. for that you personally attack me because i don't follow MLA style. :lame:
i'm merely posting information. i'm just pointing out there's more than enough studies which suggests the adverse affects of soy. for that you personally attack me because i don't follow MLA style. :lame:
Good god almighty, some hugely inaccurate health information on here. Man, has more than about, what TWO people on this thread actually taken a nutrition or kinesiology class at all? And no I dont mean reading the latest fad diet book or literature from the supplement biz. Let's look at this gem:
"plus it's good if you're working out cause pumping so much Fe will take a toll on your bones. good luck"
Hello brain surgeon, a monstrous tome of established research shows you that resistance exercise, esp. weight training, HELPS INCREASE bone density / strength and the retention of such into old age. Unless of course you have missed the last decade of the medical profession prescribing resistance exercise to the older folks as a way of combating the onset of osteoporosis.
Soy is an inferior biological value protein. The PER of even soy isolate is inferior to most animal-source proteins such as whey, egg, milk, etc. You CAN gain muscle on soy but you will need to eat a LOT more of it to get the effect of a good CFM whey product for example. The ONLY reason to use soy is either if you are on a budget or an ideological basis (e.g. you are a veg-head). On the isoflavones argument: repeat after me - MACRONUTRIENTS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN MICRONUTRIENTS. You cannot make up for an inferior macronutrient with the purported benefit of one of its micronutrients. Thus, the potential benefit of isoflavones is far inferior and secondary in importance to the potential benefit of a superior protein (such as WPI) in that your body depends first and foremost on macronutrients (carbs, fats, proteins) to power and repair itself. You cannot survive on vitamins however you can survive on carbs, fats, and proteins. Thus you should choose a protein on its value as a macronutrient first and not for any micronutrients it may have. Hence, dont pick soy over a good whey protein.
Additionally many retail whey proteins are crap. Why? They hide the actual protein mix behind proprietary names. Thus you have no idea how much of the protein mix is actually the cheap stuff like WPC or hydrolyzed whey etc. , and how much of it is the good stuff (WPI, CFM whey).
If you want a real deal on a quality product (I would consider it a hot deal) then you want to check out Protein Factory at the beginning of each month when they run their monthly specials. proteinfactory.com allows you to customize your protein / MRP the way you want, or you can choose from one of their existing formulas and choose your flavor a sweetener. This company is a blender - they are at the level of manufacturer that supplies your Muscletech, Optimum, etc. - those companies have a company blend, package, and label a product for them and drop ship it to their warehouses, they do not physically make the product. Proteinfactory does. The product is high quality, highly endorsed by hardcore gym rats (check the various musclehead forums around), and comes with no mystery as the the composition of what you get.
"plus it's good if you're working out cause pumping so much Fe will take a toll on your bones. good luck"
Hello brain surgeon, a monstrous tome of established research shows you that resistance exercise, esp. weight training, HELPS INCREASE bone density / strength and the retention of such into old age. Unless of course you have missed the last decade of the medical profession prescribing resistance exercise to the older folks as a way of combating the onset of osteoporosis.
Soy is an inferior biological value protein. The PER of even soy isolate is inferior to most animal-source proteins such as whey, egg, milk, etc. You CAN gain muscle on soy but you will need to eat a LOT more of it to get the effect of a good CFM whey product for example. The ONLY reason to use soy is either if you are on a budget or an ideological basis (e.g. you are a veg-head). On the isoflavones argument: repeat after me - MACRONUTRIENTS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN MICRONUTRIENTS. You cannot make up for an inferior macronutrient with the purported benefit of one of its micronutrients. Thus, the potential benefit of isoflavones is far inferior and secondary in importance to the potential benefit of a superior protein (such as WPI) in that your body depends first and foremost on macronutrients (carbs, fats, proteins) to power and repair itself. You cannot survive on vitamins however you can survive on carbs, fats, and proteins. Thus you should choose a protein on its value as a macronutrient first and not for any micronutrients it may have. Hence, dont pick soy over a good whey protein.
Additionally many retail whey proteins are crap. Why? They hide the actual protein mix behind proprietary names. Thus you have no idea how much of the protein mix is actually the cheap stuff like WPC or hydrolyzed whey etc. , and how much of it is the good stuff (WPI, CFM whey).
If you want a real deal on a quality product (I would consider it a hot deal) then you want to check out Protein Factory at the beginning of each month when they run their monthly specials. proteinfactory.com allows you to customize your protein / MRP the way you want, or you can choose from one of their existing formulas and choose your flavor a sweetener. This company is a blender - they are at the level of manufacturer that supplies your Muscletech, Optimum, etc. - those companies have a company blend, package, and label a product for them and drop ship it to their warehouses, they do not physically make the product. Proteinfactory does. The product is high quality, highly endorsed by hardcore gym rats (check the various musclehead forums around), and comes with no mystery as the the composition of what you get.
I cant send because it says your already registered. I can only send you the coupon to an email before you register that email with ezpricematch.com.
Both are important. What is "lame" is cutting and pasting the results of the hard work of others, and then leaving the ostensible impression that the hard work was yours.
Perhaps someday you will attend a "L33T UNiV3R51+Y " and understand this.
While we are discussing "L4ME," more appropriate Netiquette would be to provide a link so that those interested in the arcanery of soy metabolism might read further, rather than hijacking the thread with a 200-line plagiarized dump.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,929
- 142
- 106
Just go to www.allthewhey.com and get cheap protein.
10 lbs. of WPC is only $38.99.
10 lbs. of the Isolate is $64.95.
Shipping is $5.95.
Or go to ebay and search for whey. One place there has a 33 lb. bag for $89 but the shipping is $29. Still it's cheap when you calculate the price per pound.
10 lbs. of WPC is only $38.99.
10 lbs. of the Isolate is $64.95.
Shipping is $5.95.
Or go to ebay and search for whey. One place there has a 33 lb. bag for $89 but the shipping is $29. Still it's cheap when you calculate the price per pound.
Good information from www.nutrabio.com:
Read this first, before you purchase protein again!
Most people don't realize that supplement companies don't actually manufacture their own whey protein. Sure, they boast about the millions of dollars they spend in research to produce their unique brand of whey, but when it comes down to it, every one of those sports supplement companies are purchasing their whey protein from a handful of USDA licensed dairy producers. That's because whey protein is actually produced as a bi-product in the cheese manufacturing process, and only a few, very large dairy companies have the ability and technology to manufacture whey.
This Protein has a Street Value ranging from $500 to over $1000 when compared to companies selling you the exact same protein, repackaged with their labels on it.
After producing cheese, these dairy companies process the leftover whey to eliminate most of the lactose (sugar) and fat. What they are left with is a high quality protein that has a full spectrum of amino acids (building blocks of protein). This protein is then packaged in 33.1 pound bags (just like the one you see here) and shipped out to supplement manufacturers like EAS, Champion, Designer and so on, who add flavoring, carbs and other additives, then put tons of marketing behind it and call it their own. If you compare the price of this protein to store bought brands that use the exact same protein, you'll find the street value of this 33.1 pound bag ranges between $500 and $1000 depending on which brand and where you purchase it. I could understand paying more for better protein, but when it's the exact same stuff, it doesn't make much sense. You would have to purchase 17 of those 2 pound tubs at $30 to $40 to get the same value.
Read this first, before you purchase protein again!
Most people don't realize that supplement companies don't actually manufacture their own whey protein. Sure, they boast about the millions of dollars they spend in research to produce their unique brand of whey, but when it comes down to it, every one of those sports supplement companies are purchasing their whey protein from a handful of USDA licensed dairy producers. That's because whey protein is actually produced as a bi-product in the cheese manufacturing process, and only a few, very large dairy companies have the ability and technology to manufacture whey.
This Protein has a Street Value ranging from $500 to over $1000 when compared to companies selling you the exact same protein, repackaged with their labels on it.
After producing cheese, these dairy companies process the leftover whey to eliminate most of the lactose (sugar) and fat. What they are left with is a high quality protein that has a full spectrum of amino acids (building blocks of protein). This protein is then packaged in 33.1 pound bags (just like the one you see here) and shipped out to supplement manufacturers like EAS, Champion, Designer and so on, who add flavoring, carbs and other additives, then put tons of marketing behind it and call it their own. If you compare the price of this protein to store bought brands that use the exact same protein, you'll find the street value of this 33.1 pound bag ranges between $500 and $1000 depending on which brand and where you purchase it. I could understand paying more for better protein, but when it's the exact same stuff, it doesn't make much sense. You would have to purchase 17 of those 2 pound tubs at $30 to $40 to get the same value.
True PG, but companies do a little more than just add flavoring, they make it edible. Ive had some of the sack whey and its vile stuff, doesn't dissolve well, etc... its worth it to me anyways to pay an extra 50% markup or so I can know exactly what I'm taking in and have it not make me puke
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