[UPDATED 3/2!!!] Getting counteroffer'd to DEATH...

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
***** UPDATE - 3/5 11:43pm *****

"Reality Acceptance"

Well, things appear to have fizzled out finally. I just got off a conference call with my boss and a prospective replacement, and the replacement asked if he'd have access to me when he arrives Monday, March 12th. I said I would on be on staff at that point, but depending on my [Boss]'s (who was sitting right next to me) decisions in the coming days, he would probably have access to me after hours and on weekends.

After we got off the call, my boss asked one final time if it looked like the 9th was still my last day. I said, "yep...". He looked like he had already accepted it (he may have gotten a blow job this weekend, because he hasn't been his usual pissy self this morning) but was giving it one last shot, but then we moved on.

So I have every indication at this point that the drama is over. My personal time is in tact and should be paid out, and the powers that be have finally decided that it's time to focus on the future rather than dwell on the past.


***** UPDATE - 3/2 3:46pm *****

(recap: boss has been pushing me to ask my headhunter/future boss to start a week later than originally planned so he has time to fill my position)

Boss asked today if I had asked the placement firm about staying an extra week.

Me: Sorry, they said that I would be jeopardizing my status with [bank who hired me] and they weren't comfortable with it. (<- I never asked)

<boss loses it>

Boss: WHAT?! They are feeding you a line of SH*T!!!

Me: Maybe, but seeing as how I'm jobless right now (okay, maybe a little dramatic...), I'm not in a position to challenge them (<- I am, but not willing)

Boss: Maybe we could try this. How about I call your boss over at [bank where I was hired] and explain the situation to them.

Me: I don't [fscking] think so, [Boss]. We tried, it didn't work, we're done. The offer is still on the table for me to consult for you, but this isn't going to happen.

Boss: You know what, [VP of Marketing] is really good friends with the CIO over at [another bank]. I'm sure he has contacts at [bank where I was hired]... maybe he could call over there and pull a few strings.

<do you people see how narcissistic this asshole is? he's selling me this as though making this happen is the only thing that stands between us and TREASURE!>

Me: NO! Give up! It's not going to happen!!! (<- same way I talk to my son when I tell him he can't have a cookie for the fourteenth time) I wish I could help you in this regard, but I can't. What I CAN do is offer my services on a more formal basis, but what you're proposing is absolutely out of the question.


Now I'm actually getting worried that he'll just take this upon himself, regardless of what I say...


***** ORIGINAL POST *****

So I resigned Monday. Initially, it went as expected. I told my long-time mentor and boss that I was leaving due to atmosphere/managerial/culture issues; issues that are undeniable and are openly discussed at my company on a daily basis. No surprises there.

This is the third time I've quit on him and our company's President. Second time at this company, and one time at a previous company. At the previous company, I was severely underpaid. The first time at this company, I could not tolerate the organizational structure (micromanaged to hell and back), etc.

Basically, I've put these two through a hell of a lot... but in all fairness, they've put me through quite a bit, too, and I've made them a good deal of money.

But now we were in Day 3 of "Coerce jbourne77 Into Staying". At no point was it really flattering. I was already aware of my value to the company. I wanted to quit and be done with it. My resignation letter and verbal speeches left to room for imaginative thought: I was quitting, and that was final.

VP: What can I do to change your mind.
Me: Nothing. This is my final decision.

President: Do you want to take a night to think about it?
Me: If I said 'yes', it would only be so I could put off confronting you with my final decision, so no... I want to avoid that so we can all prepare for my departure.

Give my relationship with these two gentlemen, I felt I owed it to them to be open and honest about the reasons why I'm leaving. I'm getting a 20% raise, but it's not about the money (though it sure as hell doesn't hurt). This process began because of the amount of stress employees are under and the negative energy in the air.

They're offering to change it all up. "Bourne, we'll be as creative and forward-thinking as we need to be in order to keep you here. We need people like you here so we can fix the problems you describe."

Yeah, he's got a point. They can't fix the problems if they can't retain good people. Fair enough... and I believe him when he says they'll do whatever they can to fix things.

The Problem
Even if I wanted to entertain the counteroffer (which I really didn't at first... I had made my peace with leaving, and now that peace has been torn to shreds over the last few days), I'm well aware of the fact that this is the THIRD TIME I've put them through this. They've ASSURED me that, because they can understand why I want to leave and they've known me for so long, they don't question my loyalty and integrity. Not only do I have a hard time believing that (if I were them, I would feel differently), but I already make - on average - 15% more than my peers and 20% - 25% more than those reporting to me. I'm not comfortable creating an even greater disparity between my salary and everyone else's for several obvious reasons (guilt, I'll stick out like a sore thumb on paper, etc).


I just needed to vent. I'm supposed to give my boss my "final decision" (for the 14th time in three days) later this afternoon. I don't know if I came here for advice, but I've analyzed the situation so much at this point that I'm all but mentally paralyzed.
 

MmmSkyscraper

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
9,472
1
76
Have you got a job to walk into?

Would you find it difficult to find another job?

Are you happy doing what you do? I mean the tasks you perform, organisational problems aside.

Do you like the people you work with?

Do you honestly think things will change this time?

Don't worry about the salary difference, you get paid what you're worth to the company.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
This being the third time, I think staying would be the wrong thing to do. It's important to keep yourself happy. As far as micromanagement, I hear ya there. It goes on here too, big time.

Micromanagers can't change. It's part of their nature.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
15
81
fobot.com
STOP GOING TO THAT PLACE

even if you gave them "2 weeks notice" , STOP GOING THERE

THEY ARE THE DEVIL AND WILL EAT YOUR SOUL
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Whatever you do, DO NOT TAKE THE COUNTER. You will be considered disloyal and if they ever downsize, you will be the first to go.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
Have you got a job to walk into?

Yes

Would you find it difficult to find another job?

No, provided market conditions remain the same

Are you happy doing what you do? I mean the tasks you perform, organisational problems aside.

Depends on the day

Do you like the people you work with?

50% have great character, the other 50% can/should go to hell

Do you honestly think things will change this time?

Some things will, some things won't. My bosses are not good at fixing root causes of problems. However, I can be positioned to be the one guiding the changes.

Don't worry about the salary difference, you get paid what you're worth to the company.

Fair enough

 

theknight571

Platinum Member
Mar 23, 2001
2,896
2
81
If you've already got another job lined up, and it's something you want to do, then go.

I think you're just setting yourself up for a 4th time, if you stay.
 

MmmSkyscraper

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
9,472
1
76
If it was me and I had generally good working conditions other than the current problems, I'd probably stay. They wouldn't be so willing to keep you if they didn't want you around. Even if you're vital in the short term, they can't easily get rid of you in the future. If it doesn't work out, you can decide to leave.

It sounds like they might be genuine about wanting to change things, they have a point they need good people to help them do it. Be aware you need to step up and take part in that, which I'm sure you would.

Just my 2p.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
Remember, crap rolls downhill. You have to look at how everyone is treated not just yourself. If the work atmosphere is crappy, it didn't get that way overnight. Say so long and go for another job.

Poorly run companies love to talk the talk but rarely show the commitment to change because it costs money in training, hiring, reorginization and, means giving up some control to the employees.
 

Yossarian

Lifer
Dec 26, 2000
18,010
1
81
Just leave already. It isn't your job to fix the place, don't expect them to change just because you agree to stay.
 

iroast

Golden Member
May 5, 2005
1,364
3
81
I say leave. They had plenty of chances to make the working environment a better one. There's just too many issues to deal with if you were to stay. Thank them profusely and then leave after your 2-weeks notice.
 

D1gger

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
5,411
2
76
It is incredibly hard to change corporate culture. Trust me, I have been trying to do just that in the organization I took over 5 years ago. The previous senior managment was in to extreme micro management and 2nd guessed every decision a manager made. This bread a culture where nobody felt confidence in making a decision or taking a chance. I am trying to change that, to empower the management and let them learn by making mistakes and not getting there head chopped off. The old management team just don't get it and are still coming to me for every little decision.

If you truly believe they can change the culture and fix the significant problems you have with the company, then you can consider the counter-offer, but in my experience they will have difficulty in keeping their promises of change.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,974
44,863
136
IIRC from your previous threads, you were promised changes before when you tried to quit and didn't get jack except lip service. You also expressed severe doubts about the company ever attaining profitability even if it was extremely well run which it obviously isn't.

I see no reason to believe them the second time around. Your mental welfare is suffering and you already have a job with more money lined up in what looks to be a more sane environment.

Time to push away from the table, thank them for the memories, and walk out the door.
 

rsd

Platinum Member
Dec 30, 2003
2,293
0
76
You basically sound like you wrote a YAGT about a long-time gf/ex. Seriously (and I don't mean that in a critical way). If it were a YAGT I think you'd realize that you need to cut your ties at this point, because likely nothing will change.
 

eleison

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2006
1,319
0
0
Sounds like OP is an abused girlfriend who always ask for more.. but yet threatens to leave every time..

Don't worry OP, he'll eventually love you in the end!! :)



Originally posted by: jbourne77
So I resigned Monday. Initially, it went as expected. I told my long-time mentor and boss that I was leaving due to atmosphere/managerial/culture issues; issues that are undeniable and are openly discussed at my company on a daily basis. No surprises there.

This is the third time I've quit on him and our company's President. Second time at this company, and one time at a previous company. At the previous company, I was severely underpaid. The first time at this company, I could not tolerate the organizational structure (micromanaged to hell and back), etc.

Basically, I've put these two through a hell of a lot... but in all fairness, they've put me through quite a bit, too, and I've made them a good deal of money.

But now we were in Day 3 of "Coerce jbourne77 Into Staying". At no point was it really flattering. I was already aware of my value to the company. I wanted to quit and be done with it. My resignation letter and verbal speeches left to room for imaginative thought: I was quitting, and that was final.

VP: What can I do to change your mind.
Me: Nothing. This is my final decision.

President: Do you want to take a night to think about it?
Me: If I said 'yes', it would only be so I could put off confronting you with my final decision, so no... I want to avoid that so we can all prepare for my departure.

Give my relationship with these two gentlemen, I felt I owed it to them to be open and honest about the reasons why I'm leaving. I'm getting a 20% raise, but it's not about the money (though it sure as hell doesn't hurt). This process began because of the amount of stress employees are under and the negative energy in the air.

They're offering to change it all up. "Bourne, we'll be as creative and forward-thinking as we need to be in order to keep you here. We need people like you here so we can fix the problems you describe."

Yeah, he's got a point. They can't fix the problems if they can't retain good people. Fair enough... and I believe him when he says they'll do whatever they can to fix things.

The Problem
Even if I wanted to entertain the counteroffer (which I really didn't at first... I had made my peace with leaving, and now that peace has been torn to shreds over the last few days), I'm well aware of the fact that this is the THIRD TIME I've put them through this. They've ASSURED me that, because they can understand why I want to leave and they've known me for so long, they don't question my loyalty and integrity. Not only do I have a hard time believing that (if I were them, I would feel differently), but I already make - on average - 15% more than my peers and 20% - 25% more than those reporting to me. I'm not comfortable creating an even greater disparity between my salary and everyone else's for several obvious reasons (guilt, I'll stick out like a sore thumb on paper, etc).


I just needed to vent. I'm supposed to give my boss my "final decision" (for the 14th time in three days) later this afternoon. I don't know if I came here for advice, but I've analyzed the situation so much at this point that I'm all but mentally paralyzed.

 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,793
6,803
136
Originally posted by: boomerang
This being the third time, I think staying would be the wrong thing to do. It's important to keep yourself happy. As far as micromanagement, I hear ya there. It goes on here too, big time.

Micromanagers can't change. It's part of their nature.

Obviously this job is not good for you. Quit and leave. Permanently. Don't look back. There are literally MILLIONS of jobs out there. I've had one or two jobs like this; don't get suckered into coming back. QUIT QUIT QUIT!!!
 
Jan 18, 2001
14,465
1
0
Smile and say thank you and then suggest that they really need to accept the fact that you have already quit.
 

AgaBoogaBoo

Lifer
Feb 16, 2003
26,108
5
81
What about asking for 50% more than they offered and to be in a position where you can change everything. If they agree, $$$

If they don't, you got out :p
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
What about asking for 50% more

That would destroy two relationships that, no matter what happens, I need to preserve to the absolute best of my ability.

If I decide to stay, I'll ask them to meet me half way on my new salary (about $10k/year).
 

BooGiMaN

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2001
7,955
0
0
you are being wishy washy...stick to your guns you are leaving for a reason and now you are starting to doubt yourself....

you made a decision to leave because you know its the best course of action....things will not change....




 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
0
0
Originally posted by: BooGiMaN
you are being wishy washy...stick to your guns you are leaving for a reason and now you are starting to doubt yourself....

you made a decision to leave because you know its the best course of action....things will not change....
This says it all. You got to where you are and are second guessing it.

BTW, the correct order is a) find a new job, b) quit ;)

 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
Don't be afraid to change your mind. If you feel bad about a 20% raise, take only 15% right now. Tell them you wanted to leave because you felt there was no hope, but their response has been encouraging, not to mention flattering, and you're willing to give it another shot.

Bottom line, don't be afraid to leave, but don't be afraid to stay either. You're intentions are good, and obviously your character is too based on their response, so don't worry about how you look either way.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Well, I just got out of his office... must have been the 4th or 5th discussion in all of this... it's a done deal: he has accepted my resignation.

HOWEVER, he has asked me to give him an additional week (three week's notice)... I told him I'd do everything in my power to make that happen, but I can't guarantee it since I've already committed to starting my new position Monday, March 12th, not Monday, March 19th.

I'll talk to him Friday and say I tried my best, but I'm not saying a word to my future boss. I'm all about doing all I can to help, but I'm not throwing my new job on the sword of sacrifice before I've even started there. I've offered my services to my current boss on a consulting basis (nights, weekends) once I've left, and he's free to take advantage of that if he truly needs more time out of me.

Originally posted by: gsellis
BTW, the correct order is a) find a new job, b) quit ;)

That's the procedure I followed.