*UPDATE2* problems with the car.. Can anyone help me?

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WarDemon666

Platinum Member
Nov 28, 2000
2,224
0
0
Originally posted by: iamaelephant
I wouldn't put too much stock into the fuel pump idea, despite the almost unanimous vote for it so far. I would check for vacuum leaks and if nothing shows up have you injectors cleaned. First try a bottle of injector cleaner, but most likely they will need to be removed and sonic cleaned (sometimes it's cheaper to just replace them).

A faulty fuel pump would affect fuel pressure (duh) and what you're describing doesn't sound like a pressure problem. However, we need more details. If you switch the key to the "on" position and wait 20 - 30 seconds, then try to start, does it fire up quickly or is it still slow? If it's still slow, it's not your fuel pump. If this test returns a positive result (quick startup) then it could be the pump, but more likely is a leak somewhere in your fuel system. Mosy commonly this is the injectors, leaking into the manifold. This explains why you need to crank the engine a lot when cold, but not when warm. Do you get a small puff of black smoke out of the exhaust when the car does fire up?

People please, when asking car questions give all relevant details. I can't stress this enough - a problem can not be diagnosed properly without a complete picture.
Click to expand...


As in my first post I try to leave the key on (I actually thought you had to put it on, wait 5 seconds, shut it off, put it back on for 5 seconds, cause it only injects fuel for the first few seconds...I seem to be wrong?) but it doesnt change anything. Only the first start is longer...

Ill try giving it a good 20 seconds tomorrow before work..

No black smoke at all... (at least I dont think so, I never see any through the rearview mirror)

Another question: will a deep cycle battery work for my set up? If so can I get any type? Im running out of ideas... I dont wanna buy another alternator I just changed mine and its only single output, i was thinking dual output but couldnt find any locally.... can a single output alternator power 2 batteries in a tank set up? will I kill my alternator?


Thanks again.
 
B

Brutuskend

Lifer
Apr 2, 2001
26,558
4
0
Fuel pump would be my guess.

Many newer cars have TWO pumps, one of which is in the gas tank. That would be the one causing the trouble IMO.
 
P

PaNsyBoy8

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2001
1,446
0
0
it coudl also be fuel filter.

wait...you are turnign the key on, off, then on again?

i've never heard anyone say to do that before.
 
C

Crucial

Diamond Member
Dec 21, 2000
5,026
0
71
Originally posted by: WarDemon666
Originally posted by: iamaelephant
I wouldn't put too much stock into the fuel pump idea, despite the almost unanimous vote for it so far. I would check for vacuum leaks and if nothing shows up have you injectors cleaned. First try a bottle of injector cleaner, but most likely they will need to be removed and sonic cleaned (sometimes it's cheaper to just replace them).

A faulty fuel pump would affect fuel pressure (duh) and what you're describing doesn't sound like a pressure problem. However, we need more details. If you switch the key to the "on" position and wait 20 - 30 seconds, then try to start, does it fire up quickly or is it still slow? If it's still slow, it's not your fuel pump. If this test returns a positive result (quick startup) then it could be the pump, but more likely is a leak somewhere in your fuel system. Mosy commonly this is the injectors, leaking into the manifold. This explains why you need to crank the engine a lot when cold, but not when warm. Do you get a small puff of black smoke out of the exhaust when the car does fire up?

People please, when asking car questions give all relevant details. I can't stress this enough - a problem can not be diagnosed properly without a complete picture.
Click to expand...


As in my first post I try to leave the key on (I actually thought you had to put it on, wait 5 seconds, shut it off, put it back on for 5 seconds, cause it only injects fuel for the first few seconds...I seem to be wrong?) but it doesnt change anything. Only the first start is longer...

Ill try giving it a good 20 seconds tomorrow before work..

No black smoke at all... (at least I dont think so, I never see any through the rearview mirror)

Another question: will a deep cycle battery work for my set up? If so can I get any type? Im running out of ideas... I dont wanna buy another alternator I just changed mine and its only single output, i was thinking dual output but couldnt find any locally.... can a single output alternator power 2 batteries in a tank set up? will I kill my alternator?


Thanks again.
Click to expand...


I dont have a honda but on all my GM cars the fuel pump only runs for a few seconds when you turn it to on but don't start it. You have to turn it off and wait a few seconds then back to on to get the pump to run again.
 
Evadman

Evadman

Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Feb 18, 2001
30,990
5
81
Originally posted by: Crucial
I dont have a honda but on all my GM cars the fuel pump only runs for a few seconds when you turn it to on but don't start it. You have to turn it off and wait a few seconds then back to on to get the pump to run again.
Click to expand...

The reason it is truning off is because the pressure regulator turned it off. Once pressure is reached, it does not continute to run. If it did, it would blow fittings and spray fuel everywhere, which generally is not a good thing.

When you turn the key to off and wait a seconds, the pressure bleeds off. So when turned abck to on, the pressure isn't there, so the pump turns back on.
 
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WarDemon666

Platinum Member
Nov 28, 2000
2,224
0
0
Ok so I tried it out again. this morning I waited a good 20 seconds. didnt start right away (it started on the first try, but just not on the first turn like it should!)

on break i tried it again, waited 20 seconds, didnt work..(3 hours from the last start)

Next break I tried again, waited 5 seconds, shut off, put back on, etc etc for about 30 seconds, it started right away (2 hours from the last start)

next break I tried again, same thing as last time I waited 5 seconds with the key on, shut the key off and put it on, it started right away (2.5 hours from the last start)

Conclusion: I still dont know what the ****** is wrong with my car lol


How much could it cost to change the injectors / clean them?


 
B

BatmanNate

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
12,444
2
81
I'd replace the fuel pump and filter like everyone said, and make sure you don't cheap out on the crush washers when you do. You can usually get your injectors flow tested/cleaned for about 10-15 bucks a pop if you take them out yourself. Good luck, I loathe working on Hondas. (check the cold start injector too if the car has one)
 
C

Crucial

Diamond Member
Dec 21, 2000
5,026
0
71
Originally posted by: Evadman
Originally posted by: Crucial
I dont have a honda but on all my GM cars the fuel pump only runs for a few seconds when you turn it to on but don't start it. You have to turn it off and wait a few seconds then back to on to get the pump to run again.
Click to expand...

The reason it is truning off is because the pressure regulator turned it off. Once pressure is reached, it does not continute to run. If it did, it would blow fittings and spray fuel everywhere, which generally is not a good thing.

When you turn the key to off and wait a seconds, the pressure bleeds off. So when turned abck to on, the pressure isn't there, so the pump turns back on.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. The pressure regulator doesn't have a mechanism to turn the pump off. The pressure regulator allows fuel to flow back into the return line at a set pressure nothing more. If the pump continued to run the regulator would do what it's supposed to do, open up and let the excess fuel bleed off into the return line keeping the pressure at the specified level.
 
C

Crucial

Diamond Member
Dec 21, 2000
5,026
0
71
Originally posted by: WarDemon666
Ok so I tried it out again. this morning I waited a good 20 seconds. didnt start right away (it started on the first try, but just not on the first turn like it should!)

on break i tried it again, waited 20 seconds, didnt work..(3 hours from the last start)

Next break I tried again, waited 5 seconds, shut off, put back on, etc etc for about 30 seconds, it started right away (2 hours from the last start)

next break I tried again, same thing as last time I waited 5 seconds with the key on, shut the key off and put it on, it started right away (2.5 hours from the last start)

Conclusion: I still dont know what the ****** is wrong with my car lol


How much could it cost to change the injectors / clean them?
Click to expand...

If it were one of my vehicles I would hook up a pressure guage to the fuel rail and verify the pump was ouputting the proper pressure. If it is you then turn it off and note the pressure. When you come back 3 hours later(or overnight) and the pressure is down significantly, you change the fuel pressure regulator. If after changing the regulator the symptoms are the same then you go for a new fuel pump.

If you test the pressure and it isn't up to spec then you either have a clogged fuel filter, bad regulator or a bad pump.

I'm sure a fuel filter and regulator are cheaper and easier to change but it's a good idea to figure out whats really wrong first and you can't really do that by starting it up after a few hours.

Again this would wok on GM's, I assume the honda would be similar in is design being a fuel injected car.
 
CrackRabbit

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,642
62
91
Having a flaky cam sensor certainly could cause the problems you are having.
Sounds like you have it diagnosed properly, get a new cam sensor and put it in.
:)
 
W

WarDemon666

Platinum Member
Nov 28, 2000
2,224
0
0
Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Having a flaky cam sensor certainly could cause the problems you are having.
Sounds like you have it diagnosed properly, get a new cam sensor and put it in.
:)
Click to expand...


So you think theres no need to bring it to the dealer to get it diagnosed?

Changing the sensor in the distributor (the TDC Sensor) will fix the problem?

Thanks again!!!!
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,353
14,761
146
IIRC, autozone will plug in a code-reader and tell you what the check-engine light is telling you. Then, you (or a qualified mechanic) get to figure out what is causing that particular code to come up. Could be anything from a bad O2 sensor to something serious...
 
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WarDemon666

Platinum Member
Nov 28, 2000
2,224
0
0
ok i brought it to the honda dealer. The ****** was rude and i hated the service.

He went to talk to a mechanic and they said 'code 8 is for engine idling problem, not the TDC center',,,, who should I believe? A book, or a mechanics opinion?

Where can i find details about error 8 when jumping the two wires on the net?

I cleared the error on the car so i cant bring it to the honda dealer to get fixed yet,,,, but thats what Ill do I think,, its 48$ to put it on the odbII reader.... (or i can but a reader myself for the computer and do it myself? the ODBII scantool for a computer is like 80$ and i can use it in my carputer setup to give me engine information etc....


Ideas?

I dont know what to do any more. i dont wanna bring the car to the honda dealer,, the ****** treated me like ******.
 
CrackRabbit

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,642
62
91
Autozone or a similar parts supply place will hook up an OBDII scanner to it for free.
You sound mechanicaly inclined, buy a cam sensor and replace it yourself.
Stealerships suck for service unless your car happens to be under warranty.
Edit: It looks like Honda uses a Crankshaft sensor instead of a camshaft one, at least on the SOHC engine.
 
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WarDemon666

Platinum Member
Nov 28, 2000
2,224
0
0
Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Autozone or a similar parts supply place will hook up an OBDII scanner to it for free.
You sound mechanicaly inclined, buy a cam sensor and replace it yourself.
Stealerships suck for service unless your car happens to be under warranty.
Edit: It looks like Honda uses a Crankshaft sensor instead of a camshaft one, at least on the SOHC engine.
Click to expand...

im in canada do u know of any free places?

Also, its the TDC sensor, not the crankshaft sensor, i read that there is 3 sensors in the distributor/cap.... i was planning on taking it apart and testing the sensors manually but i dont know what the resistance of them would be, and i cant find any information anywhere
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,353
14,761
146
Since you insist on trying to troubleshoot things over the internet on forums, why don't you go to one of the ones listed here:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n...LG,GGLG:2006-19,GGLG:en&q=honda+forums

Many of those people eat, sleep and sh!t Honda. Most likely, you'll find a few good mechanics there, some factory trained techs, others just good common sense mechanics, but overall, probably "more better" advice than you'll get here...;) Many of us are decent mechanics, but I know I've never turned a wrench on anything made by Honda...EVER, and have no intention of ever doing so...I DID own a Datsun p/u way back in the 70's however...but I don't think that counts...:roll:
 
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