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UPDATE: A'ight, my final list of law schools.
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billandopus
Platinum Member
Oh ... you wouldn't really rate it in a concrete fashion per se ... but in a manner of "reputation" and perception.
I have many lawyer friends - working with their own perceptions and opinions - gleaned over the years one can ascertain a possible "advantage" in attending particular schools.
Now, i'm referring to the Canadian system here because our legal industry is much smaller in scope than the US. If you are doing corporate law in Canada in many sub-areas of corp you really can only practice in Toronto because of the particular economic and financial mitigating factors. It's more difficult to practice in Vancouver or Calgary because Toronto is "where it's at" for that particular sector. Now, if the economy were to do "better" in Vancouver then you could fashion yourself a career there ... but at the present time you'd have to move to Toronto to get any play.
The "old-boy" networking comes into effect in these insular and limited areas of particular law in Canada ... so my answer may not apply in the States to as much of a degree.
Besides, my more serious answer to your question would be more to the effect of "it's more important how hard and how smart you work with your degree as opposed to where you got it."
I'm just saying that having the "right" alma mater can make a difference at times. That's all. Much the same in many things in life.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Everything is secondary to rank, or reputation in law. If you get into a top school, costs etc do not matter. If you were to get into Harvard, lets say, and do reasonably well, the costs of your education will be insignificant compared to what you will earn. Remember, once you are out of school, you will be better able to call the shots, as you will be in a better position to decide where and how to practice. It has been the experience of those I know who practice that in this case, school name counts for more than anything, provided you dont screw up 😉
*sigh* and the cold hard facts start rolling in.
Now, here's a question - let's say I end up finding a good, top-tier school - (looking at a few that are ~22 as definites, a few that are top 10 as possibles); so I go to a top-tier school, but doesn't have the same name recognition as Harvard, Yale, Columbia, etc. I go through, graduate with a focus in taxation - come out with that, my CPA license, some research experience... I think I just answered my own question. Hmm.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
I don't know how law schools are ranked, but you can believe law firms do. Public name recognition does not always equal ranking. I was thinking of what potential employeers see. If you can find a suitable school that both public recognition and ranking, that is obviously good, however ranking IS employeer recognition. Of course, if you have a specific area in mind, you would want to pick a school that excels in that speciality. I think that placemant statistics after graduation would be very helpful, if you can find those.
Axon
Platinum Member
Or,
While it is true that the higher ranked a school, the better your chance for landing an associate position, there are other factors to consider. While I generally recommend that you go to your highest-ranked acceptance, if you have two schools that are similar in ranking, make sure to give them a thorough examination.
Some factors:
1. What Law Firms hire from the school - how large are the firms, what cities are the main "feeders," how bad are the hours of a 1st year associate, and what class ranking does the firm cut-off at. Think of it like this - if you graduate top 5% from ANY school in the top 100, you are virtually guaranteed a job somewhere. Maybe not your first choice firm, but somewhere. But if you land in the top 15%, what are your options? Top 30%? Et cetera. Chew that out.
2. Miscallenous programs - Always a factor. Misc. programs can really make a difference. St. John's Law, for example, provides a free laptop to every first year student. Syracuse Law has a "law firm" class which actually operates like a firm - you're expected to create stips/orders, memos, complaints, responses, waivers, et all - and the professors, who act like senior partners, really change things up on you. They'll call you at 2 am and say they need a response by noon the next day. While this can be brutal, this is going to be exactly like your job as an associate. It really prepares you and makes you more attractive.
3. Financial Aid/Grants - The bottom line. Who's offering more grant money? I know 35 year-old partners that are STILL paying their loans. 50- 100 k debt is a big load, and you really need to keep a good head about this.
In the end, you'll know where to choose.
While it is true that the higher ranked a school, the better your chance for landing an associate position, there are other factors to consider. While I generally recommend that you go to your highest-ranked acceptance, if you have two schools that are similar in ranking, make sure to give them a thorough examination.
Some factors:
1. What Law Firms hire from the school - how large are the firms, what cities are the main "feeders," how bad are the hours of a 1st year associate, and what class ranking does the firm cut-off at. Think of it like this - if you graduate top 5% from ANY school in the top 100, you are virtually guaranteed a job somewhere. Maybe not your first choice firm, but somewhere. But if you land in the top 15%, what are your options? Top 30%? Et cetera. Chew that out.
2. Miscallenous programs - Always a factor. Misc. programs can really make a difference. St. John's Law, for example, provides a free laptop to every first year student. Syracuse Law has a "law firm" class which actually operates like a firm - you're expected to create stips/orders, memos, complaints, responses, waivers, et all - and the professors, who act like senior partners, really change things up on you. They'll call you at 2 am and say they need a response by noon the next day. While this can be brutal, this is going to be exactly like your job as an associate. It really prepares you and makes you more attractive.
3. Financial Aid/Grants - The bottom line. Who's offering more grant money? I know 35 year-old partners that are STILL paying their loans. 50- 100 k debt is a big load, and you really need to keep a good head about this.
In the end, you'll know where to choose.
billandopus
Platinum Member
Have you checked out the usual suspect - the US News rankings of top law schools?
For what it's worth - there's probably some good info there.
For what it's worth - there's probably some good info there.
We need some more information: Where do you plan on practicing law after graduation? Do you want to do tax work at a big firm?
With your current list, UM is head and shoulders above the others reputation-wise and would give you national reach in terms of post-graduation opportunities in this economy as long as you're top 50% in your class. However, if you're planning on practicing in Seattle, I would caution you against going out to far away schools such as U of Illinois and even more so Fordham ...not b/c they aren't good schools but b/c your employment opportunities will be much better in Washington if you go to UW, and a Fordham would be much more expensive than UW. That isn't to say that a Seattle firm wouldn't hire someone with good grades from Fordham - all I'm saying is that hiring committees out in Seattle probably rarely get applicants from Fordham students b/c I assume most Fordham grads stay in NYC and most GWU grads stay in DC or go to NYC.
Do your due diligence. Look up firms in cities where you may want to practice and see where their attorneys went to school. Is going to a W&M or Washington&Lee worth giving up the opportunity to build important contacts/networks at UW (assuming you want to practice in Washington state)?
With your current list, UM is head and shoulders above the others reputation-wise and would give you national reach in terms of post-graduation opportunities in this economy as long as you're top 50% in your class. However, if you're planning on practicing in Seattle, I would caution you against going out to far away schools such as U of Illinois and even more so Fordham ...not b/c they aren't good schools but b/c your employment opportunities will be much better in Washington if you go to UW, and a Fordham would be much more expensive than UW. That isn't to say that a Seattle firm wouldn't hire someone with good grades from Fordham - all I'm saying is that hiring committees out in Seattle probably rarely get applicants from Fordham students b/c I assume most Fordham grads stay in NYC and most GWU grads stay in DC or go to NYC.
Do your due diligence. Look up firms in cities where you may want to practice and see where their attorneys went to school. Is going to a W&M or Washington&Lee worth giving up the opportunity to build important contacts/networks at UW (assuming you want to practice in Washington state)?
DainBramaged
Lifer
Without pics, it is just words on my screen. Merely a bunch of pixles! PICS????
DainBramaged
Lifer
Without pics, it is just words on my screen. Merely a bunch of pixles! PICS????
Corporate Thug
Lifer
UC hasting is a 3rd tier ;aw school and davis is second teir. honestly, i wouldnt apply to anything but 1st tiers
USC
UCLS
Cornell
a few good schools
USC
UCLS
Cornell
a few good schools
UC Hastings and UC Davis are both 1st tier law schools.
RabidMongoose
Lifer
So how long does it take to fill out the applications? How many essays are there? How many recommendations did you need?
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