[UPDATE 10/4/16] It is official! Pixel and Pixel XL (formerly Nexus 2016)

[agent00f]

I'm personally surprised at all the quick responses on AT dismissing these phones, and I'm almost certain it has to do with the price of it.

I've been daily driving both the Nexus 6P and the Pixel XL, and have had none of the experiences of the people trying demo phones or quick touches.

There were notes of the "understated" look of the phone, but the chamfered edges of this phone feel leads better than my 6P. Setting up the phone was painless, but I really wish Android would get up to date on enforcing good backups and restores. I would have loved to reinstall all my apps with data in tact (all my authorization apps and things with accounts). But Android just doesn't do that well. So I had to clean off all my apps, and break / reinstate my authenticator tokens. That's a bit of a pain.

Android on this phone is not Android on the 6P. It's not Android on any Android phone I've ever experienced. The experience is very smooth. I have not experienced any lagged responses, no stutters, or anything like that. Graphics benchmarks lost 5 FPS at 1440P between the first run, and 20 minutes later of steady runs. I experienced very little practical downclocking going on.

The display is absolutely fantastic, the Storage is lightning fast (I imported 50GB of my music from my USB SSD to my phone in 7 minutes). The USB Power Delivery standard charging is even faster than the 6P's.

Speaking of power, the battery life on this is not even in the same league with the 6P. I'm sitting here on my phone that's been used for a day and a half. There's still 35% battery left. This is every bit in the same league with the iPhone, which early reports were indicating.

The camera is fast. The pictures it takes looks great. The Front Facing Camera (for as little as I use it) may be the best one I've ever used, even compared to my coworkers iPhone 7 Plus.

It's a good phone. Just like the 6P, iPhone, and every other phone before it, there's things I wish were different, changed, or slightly tweaked. Honestly, I still kind of wish I got the regular Pixel. I think I underestimate just how much I miss small phones.

But from just a few days with it I can easily determine this. If you are saying that the Pixel is just an overpriced Nexus, you're simply wrong, and I implore you to give it a chance.

The real question is, how is this vs. the iPhone 7 Plus? The hardware is not at parity with the iPhone 7. No water proofing, but a better camera are just 2 points that differentiate the similar priced devices. But for me, and a lot of others, the way the Apple ecosystem works is enough of a reason why the iPhone 7 won't be a consideration, and for me, for that reason, the Pixel XL is a winner.

Android is usually smooth and gets decent battery for the first few days on any new phone. There's no reason to believe 7.1 magically changed this.

In terms of features, particular more sophisticated/cloud ones, Google has more/better than apple, but the basic user experience is significantly worse.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Android is usually smooth and gets decent battery for the first few days on any new phone. There's no reason to believe 7.1 magically changed this.

It's always been a problem in iOS too if you're being honest.

The difference is Apple has an excellent backup and restore function that has been working since forever while Android only has root and Titanium Backup, which Google is actively trying to get rid of while not making their own stuff work.

 

[agent00f]

Android deteriorates much more noticeable than IOS. It's also prone to seemingly random problems whenever it feels like.

For example, a week after 7.0 final dropped google photos started using a massive amount of battery. I tried half a dozen methods incl turning off sync, restarting, clearing cache then data, uninstalling, etc over days to fix it no avail, then it magically fixed itself overnight just before I tried system reset. Just yesterday bluetooth used a reported 6000mah which doesn't even make any sense but seems a restart fixed that. I have little reason believe all that's fixed in 7.0 -> 7.1 and similar incremental hw update.

 

[VashHT]

Meh you can go to forums and see plenty of people having problems with iOS updates. My 7.0 experience on my 6P has been mostly fine, I had a bluetooth battery drain issue when it first hit but there was a small update that fixed it.

 

[sweenish]

People citing their one-off personal experiences as some sort of wide trend are doing it wrong. Anecdotes count for jack. For one, I didn't have those issues. See how they just cancel each other out? Starting with 5.1, every Android release has been great for me. My N7 2013 just keeps getting faster and faster.

Even on custom 7.0, my N7 2013 was doing great. I reverted so Play Movies would work again.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Yeah no kidding. My wife just updated her 6s to iOS10 and she's complaining of random app crashes since. I'll probably have her do a backup and restore to clear up the issues.

These are just anecdotes but the takeaway is that slowdowns aren't relegated to a particular OS.

 

[agent00f]

Meh you can go to forums and see plenty of people having problems with iOS updates. My 7.0 experience on my 6P has been mostly fine, I had a bluetooth battery drain issue when it first hit but there was a small update that fixed it.

Major iOS update issues tend to be hw limitations, like that which typically accompanies updating hw that's several years old, which I guess still doesn't particularly concern android.

Android is clearly good enough for the lower/mid end of the market, but there's good reason why people hesitate to pay as much as they do for apple without compelling extras.

Some of this is outside google's control, like the relatively crap qualcomm socs, but it's not as if they give enough of a shit to do everything in their power like push support past 2 years.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Android is usually smooth and gets decent battery for the first few days on any new phone. There's no reason to believe 7.1 magically changed this.

In terms of features, particular more sophisticated/cloud ones, Google has more/better than apple, but the basic user experience is significantly worse.

I've already noted that I have both of these phones side by side. Both of these phones are set up in a stock state just a few days out of box. The 6P and Pixel XL feel very different in use all the same. The Pixel line is using a different scheduler from the Nexus phones, and there have been specific drivers and UI tweaks for this phone specifically, not 7.1 different. I have no reason to believe 7.1 magically changed this, but then again, I'm not repeatedly saying 7.1 like that is the only difference between Pixel and Nexus. It isn't. We've known about that for months now, so why are you taking none of the other points into consideration?

Android deteriorates much more noticeable than IOS. It's also prone to seemingly random problems whenever it feels like.

For example, a week after 7.0 final dropped google photos started using a massive amount of battery. I tried half a dozen methods incl turning off sync, restarting, clearing cache then data, uninstalling, etc over days to fix it no avail, then it magically fixed itself overnight just before I tried system reset. Just yesterday bluetooth used a reported 6000mah which doesn't even make any sense but seems a restart fixed that. I have little reason believe all that's fixed in 7.0 -> 7.1 and similar incremental hw update.

I have never experienced this issue on any of my 7.0 devices, whether native (Nexus 6P), or ROM'd in. You appear to be using anecdotes of personally encountered issues as valid data to justify Android's User experience vs. iOS. Do you have anything empirical to note that this google photos or bluetooth issue is something widespread? Like the empirical evidence noting the up to 75% reduction in LTE performance depending on your iPhone 7 lottery?

Your dismissiveness is noted, but you're doing yourself a disservice. You can have "little reason to believe" all you want, but testing in the coming days I'm sure will leave a clearer picture. If we're just sticking to anecdotes though, I can still note that there is a clear improvement between a stock 6P and a stock Pixel XL, and I have none of the problems you've spoken of.

 

[Kazukian]

I ran the beta OS's on my nexus 6 with no problems.

Also, Google inked a deal with ubreakifix for a walk in warranty repair experience with it's Pixel phones, pretty slick.

 

[agent00f]

I've already noted that I have both of these phones side by side. Both of these phones are set up in a stock state just a few days out of box. The 6P and Pixel XL feel very different in use all the same. The Pixel line is using a different scheduler from the Nexus phones, and there have been specific drivers and UI tweaks for this phone specifically, not 7.1 different. I have no reason to believe 7.1 magically changed this, but then again, I'm not repeatedly saying 7.1 like that is the only difference between Pixel and Nexus. It isn't. We've known about that for months now, so why are you taking none of the other points into consideration?

So the scheduler was the root of android latency problems, and they didn't both with fixing it until many years later in version 7.1? Maybe they can also tweak that one thing causing shit battery life compared to ios on all billion phones up to now. Literally every one of their phone & os intros are accompanied by proclamations & reviews how this time it's different, and it's regrettable fans haven't learned their lesson yet.

It's simply a matter of reality to acknowledge that the system was designed from the start with low priority for responsiveness and power consumption, and if they couldn't fix it the last 10 times why the renewed optimism now.

I have never experienced this issue on any of my 7.0 devices, whether native (Nexus 6P), or ROM'd in. You appear to be using anecdotes of personally encountered issues as valid data to justify Android's User experience vs. iOS. Do you have anything empirical to note that this google photos or bluetooth issue is something widespread? Like the empirical evidence noting the up to 75% reduction in LTE performance depending on your iPhone 7 lottery?

Your dismissiveness is noted, but you're doing yourself a disservice. You can have "little reason to believe" all you want, but testing in the coming days I'm sure will leave a clearer picture. If we're just sticking to anecdotes though, I can still note that there is a clear improvement between a stock 6P and a stock Pixel XL, and I have none of the problems you've spoken of.

Consider the underlying situation when literally every release is accompanied by "this one is truly up to par with iphone, srsly guys". I owned more than half of all the nexuses and have more than enough reason to want to like android but it's pretty clear by now google really doesn't give a shit about fixing anything. They have every opportunity to update their own expensive phone yet still can't commit to more than 2 years.

And let's be even more clear, who's willing to bet that the pixel will have resale value anywhere close to the iphone in a year or two?

 

[VashHT]

If you don't mind me asking why don't you just switch to an iPhone? I've used several so I disagree with your assessment from personal experience, but if you really feel that iOS and the hardware are that much better why bother with Android at all?

 

[thecoolnessrune]

So the scheduler was the root of android latency problems, and they didn't both fixing it until many years later in version 7.1? Maybe they can also fix that one thing causing shit battery life compared to ios on all billion phones up to now. Literally every one of their phone & os intros are accompanied by proclamations & reviews how this time it's different, and it's regrettable fans haven't learned their lesson yet.

It's simply a matter of reality to acknowledge that the system was designed from the start with low priority for responsiveness and power consumption, and if they couldn't fix it the last 10 times why the renewed optimism now.



Consider the underlying situation when literally every release is accompanied by "this time we've up to par with iphone, srsly guys". I owned more than half of all the nexuses and have more than enough reason to want to like android but it's pretty clear by now google really doesn't give a shit about fixing anything.

When you say the above concerning the scheduler (while still ignoring UI and driver specific tweaks), you do yourself a disservice. I'm not sure if you're just ignorant in regards to designing schedulers and kernels, or if you're some programming god that has chosen not to bless the world in regards to your capabilities, but you make yourself to appear very silly being so dismissive about the undertaking involved in designing a scheduler or a kernel. Combined with the heavy fragmentation in the Android world, then I think many issues that have been seen are rather understandable. There's a reason Apple owns the entire ecosystem. Fortunately for me, in what must be nothing short of the best luck in the world, I've had none of these problems. As others have noted, since Lollipop, I saw a massive change in what I was getting from Android products, and it was definitely a change for the better. But again, my fortune through all the phones I've had could just as easily be seen as "magic" from the eyes of someone who seems to have nothing but problems with them.

Again though, you say "in 7.1" like this is some generic thing that Android is getting, just like you've been doing. I don't know why you keep doing, but it's your prerogative I suppose, and your flag to wave. This is not "7.1" we're talking about. It's Pixel we're talking about. We're saying repeatedly that Pixel is being build with a hands on approach to the software that Google has not had the ability to do yet with previous phones. The fact you keep disregarding it and choosing to focus on these changes being focused on Android holistically is either willful ignorance or bad reading. In fact, we've known about much better battery life since early October, so I guess for someone who owns half the Nexus fleet, you just choose not to read?

I will say your dismissive attitude is not unique. There's a lot of people who have "given up" on Google, yet not moved to iOS. Google goes through the massive effort of designing and building their own phone this time, with their own software optimizations designed for that product specifically, which they've never been able to do before, and as a result they charge iPhone prices for it, and people dismiss it as "it's the same thing all over again", despite Google Engineers saying differently, despite Reviewers saying differently, despite end users saying differently, "google doesn't give a shit about fixing anything".

Well ok then. I'll remember that anecdotal evidence when I'm in the Datacenter holding a Webex session over LTE on my Pixel XL with no stuttering, while my coworker can't even get a signal on his Intel modem equipped iPhone 7. I'll keep waiting for my experience in there to get worse than his.

 

[agent00f]

If you don't mind me asking why don't you just switch to an iPhone? I've used several so I disagree with your assessment from personal experience, but if you really feel that iOS and the hardware are that much better why bother with Android at all?

Until recently I didn't use a smartphone enough to justify shelling out for a flagship, and I've been getting these for free or close enough anyway.

I'll probably evaluate my choices again next year when the iphone update will likely be substantial, and if it's worth paying for I don't foresee anything comparable from google, esp when google's greatest advantage in services is available on ios anyway.

 

[o306]

Seems like Google half-assed it on the "premium" Pixel according to this article:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...h-to-mold-an-htc-phone-into-a-google-product/

 

[agent00f]

When you say the above concerning the scheduler (while still ignoring UI and driver specific tweaks), you do yourself a disservice. I'm not sure if you're just ignorant in regards to designing schedulers and kernels, or if you're some programming god that has chosen not to bless the world in regards to your capabilities, but you make yourself to appear very silly being so dismissive about the undertaking involved in designing a scheduler or a kernel. Combined with the heavy fragmentation in the Android world, then I think many issues that have been seen are rather understandable. There's a reason Apple owns the entire ecosystem. Fortunately for me, in what must be nothing short of the best luck in the world, I've had none of these problems. As others have noted, since Lollipop, I saw a massive change in what I was getting from Android products, and it was definitely a change for the better. But again, my fortune through all the phones I've had could just as easily be seen as "magic" from the eyes of someone who seems to have nothing but problems with them.

Again though, you say "in 7.1" like this is some generic thing that Android is getting, just like you've been doing. I don't know why you keep doing, but it's your prerogative I suppose, and your flag to wave. This is not "7.1" we're talking about. It's Pixel we're talking about. We're saying repeatedly that Pixel is being build with a hands on approach to the software that Google has not had the ability to do yet with previous phones. The fact you keep disregarding it and choosing to focus on these changes being focused on Android holistically is either willful ignorance or bad reading. In fact, we've known about much better battery life since early October, so I guess for someone who owns half the Nexus fleet, you just choose not to read?

I will say your dismissive attitude is not unique. There's a lot of people who have "given up" on Google, yet not moved to iOS. Google goes through the massive effort of designing and building their own phone this time, with their own software optimizations designed for that product specifically, which they've never been able to do before, and as a result they charge iPhone prices for it, and people dismiss it as "it's the same thing all over again", despite Google Engineers saying differently, despite Reviewers saying differently, despite end users saying differently, "google doesn't give a shit about fixing anything".

Well ok then. I'll remember that anecdotal evidence when I'm in the Datacenter holding a Webex session over LTE on my Pixel XL with no stuttering, while my coworker can't even get a signal on his Intel modem equipped iPhone 7. I'll keep waiting for my experience in there to get worse than his.

I assure you I understand how kernels & schedulers work in some detail, and understanding it is exactly why proclaiming it's the crux of android latency problems is laughable. If that's true, what's preventing them from making it work right on the last 7 nexus phones with mostly qualcomm socs, the 5/6 with the more or less same krait chip and last with the same ref design as most of the arm ecosystem?

Seems like Google half-assed it on the "premium" Pixel according to this article:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...h-to-mold-an-htc-phone-into-a-google-product/

LOL, that's pretty much my impression from first looks. There's no other reason for the bottom antenna area to be basically the same sans actual features other than starting out with htc blueprints.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I assure you I understand how kernels & schedulers work in some detail, and understanding it is exactly why proclaiming it's the crux of android latency problems is laughable. If that's true, what's preventing them from making it work right on the last 7 nexus phones with mostly qualcomm socs, the last 3 with the more or less same 800 series chip?

For the bolded above, I assume you're directing that statement towards me? If so, can you provide a quote where I said the revised kernel and scheduler is the crux of android latency problems? I'm fairly certain I said no such thing, but if I did, it's worth correcting.

 

[agent00f]

For the bolded above, I assume you're directing that statement towards me? If so, can you provide a quote where I said the revised kernel and scheduler is the crux of android latency problems? I'm fairly certain I said no such thing, but if I did, it's worth correcting.

This is what you said in reply to mundane incremental updates: "The 6P and Pixel XL feel very different in use all the same. The Pixel line is using a different scheduler from the Nexus phones, and there have been specific drivers and UI tweaks for this phone specifically, not 7.1 different.".

So it it's not the scheduler, then it must be the specific drivers (supplied by qualcomm to all vendors), or UI (a modified launcher app). It's not as if the 820 series hasn't already been out for a year and always been mediocre compared to Ax chips.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

This is what you said in reply to mundane incremental updates: "The 6P and Pixel XL feel very different in use all the same. The Pixel line is using a different scheduler from the Nexus phones, and there have been specific drivers and UI tweaks for this phone specifically, not 7.1 different.".

So it it's not the scheduler, then it must be the specific drivers (supplied by qualcomm to all vendors), or UI (a modified launcher app). It's not as if the 820 series hasn't already been out for a year and always been mediocre compared to Ax chips.

So I didn't say that. Good.

 

[Kazukian]

Seems like Google half-assed it on the "premium" Pixel according to this article:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...h-to-mold-an-htc-phone-into-a-google-product/

Yep, seems like a "parts bin" phone this generation, honestly, I was surprised that they partnered with HTC.

The "custom silicone" in future devices is interesting, Apple has years of experience making their custom chips, has bought several chip designing companies... I'm curious what Google is planning. To really take advantage of a custom chip, they'd have to tailor the OS to it, further distancing themselves from the other Android manufacturers.

 

[dawheat]

This is what you said in reply to mundane incremental updates: "The 6P and Pixel XL feel very different in use all the same. The Pixel line is using a different scheduler from the Nexus phones, and there have been specific drivers and UI tweaks for this phone specifically, not 7.1 different.".

So it it's not the scheduler, then it must be the specific drivers (supplied by qualcomm to all vendors), or UI (a modified launcher app). It's not as if the 820 series hasn't already been out for a year and always been mediocre compared to Ax chips.

I recall Google claiming that the Pixel's touch latency is the best on any Android phone and on par with the iPhone. Would be interesting if anyone has actually measured this.

 

[agent00f]

So I didn't say that. Good.

I was being facetious about the drivers & launcher.

 

[agent00f]

I ran the beta OS's on my nexus 6 with no problems.

Also, Google inked a deal with ubreakifix for a walk in warranty repair experience with it's Pixel phones, pretty slick.

The 6's problem is that the phone is basically broken <50% battery when they turn off half the cores. Again it seems like a hack for marginally better battery life that google never bothered to remedy properly and now it lies abandoned unless you flash some shady fix.

Yep, seems like a "parts bin" phone this generation, honestly, I was surprised that they partnered with HTC.

The "custom silicone" in future devices is interesting, Apple has years of experience making their custom chips, has bought several chip designing companies... I'm curious what Google is planning. To really take advantage of a custom chip, they'd have to tailor the OS to it, further distancing themselves from the other Android manufacturers.

The Ax chips are just arm (except much better than the reference) and would probably run android without much work. Even worse the qualcomm socs would proabably ios pretty easily and better than android.

The problem was that google bought a small company which designed a smartphone os back when they weren't expected to do much. Eg. here's no reason for a garbage collected JIT language's unpredictable latency which wasn't half fixed until 5.0, and will prolly never be fixed in aggregate.

 

[Kazukian]

I have to admit, I'm lost. No argument here. Am hooked by the Apple ecosystem anyway, but like to dabble with Android.

 

[VashHT]

Anyway maybe we can get back to actually talking about the phones, I'm at 40 hours off the charger with 2 hours screen on time and a lot of music/audiobook listening so I'm pretty happy with the battery life so far, my 6P would easily be dead by now.

 

[ControlD]

Anyway maybe we can get back to actually talking about the phones, I'm at 40 hours off the charger with 2 hours screen on time and a lot of music/audiobook listening so I'm pretty happy with the battery life so far, my 6P would easily be dead by now.

Both of the guys in my office with Pixels are amazed at the battery life they are getting so far.