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Upcoming Radeon HD 6000 Series Is All-New Architecture

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
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"AMD originally wanted a brand-new architecture (the first since Radeon HD 2000 series) on TSMC's 32-nm node, and it was codenamed "Northern Islands." Then they hit a snag: TSMC cancelled their 32-nm, instead deciding to go straight to 28-nm in 2011. At this point, a new family codename called "Souther Islands" came about; apparently it was still 40-nm, and would be a more efficient version of "Evergreen" (Radeon HD 5000 series).

This is not true. The upcoming Radeon HD 6000 series IS "Northern Islands" and IS a brand-new architecture. After the 32-nm process was cancelled, AMD moved "Northern Islands" back to the 40-nm node (obviously it probably lost a few shader/texture/pixel units to what AMD had planned for 32-nm), and also started work on "Southern Islands." The "Southern Islands" family will be a 28-nm die-shrink of "Northern Islands" and will most likely be manufactured at Globalfoundries (though it could still be TSMC, or even both).

The end point to take away is that the Radeon HD 6000 series is a new architecture, and that more than helps explains some of these insane early benchmarks that have been floating around. Die sizes are said to be about 10-15% bigger across the board, but the performance also looks to be 60%+ higher in some cases; more than a fair tradeoff. It's time to get excited for new GPUs again."

http://vr-zone.com/forums/837763/upcoming-radeon-hd-6000-series-is-all-new-architecture.html
 
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happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
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Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,080
1,218
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The end point to take away is that the Radeon HD 6000 series is a new architecture, and that more than helps explains some of these insane early benchmarks that have been floating around. Die sizes are said to be about 10-15% bigger across the board, but the performance also looks to be 60%+ higher in some cases; more than a fair tradeoff. It's time to get excited for new GPUs again."

http://vr-zone.com/forums/837763/upcoming-radeon-hd-6000-series-is-all-new-architecture.html
AMD is going to be bringing the pain soon.

No wonder the GTX 460 is getting its price slashed again and again. In another month no one will want to buy one when AMD starts introducing their second generation DX11 video cards.

Keep hearing more and more good stuff about these new cards. 6 series should be bringing in a whole new level of graphics performance.

10-15% die size increase ? If they can still keep it below the insane heat and power level of the GTX 480, the 6870 will be even more of a win. 30 to 40% more performance than a GTX 480, 10-20% less heat and power needs than a GTX 480 :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Hopefully the rumors about 6870 in November and 6970 before Christmas come through. AMD hit the same note last year introducing the 5XXX series in time for the holidays.

Looking forward to ebaying off these 480s for the 6870 upgrades!
 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,630
2
81
this rumor seems little hard to believe since most sources close to amd up to now is saying it's just a hybrid. and I don't see how amd can finish the new design so quickly either. my guess is a revised edition of the hd5xxx is more plausible at this point. of course all new core is much more welcome if true.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,391
31
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AMD is going to be bringing the pain soon.

No wonder the GTX 460 is getting its price slashed again and again. In another month no one will want to buy one when AMD starts introducing their second generation DX11 video cards.
Then why is the 5850 still selling for $30 over its launch price if nobody wants to buy in this segment? The GTX 460 and GTX 470 give better price/performance than the 5850.

30 to 40% more performance than a GTX 480,
I see you believe in God. Or at least magical silicon fairies.
There's no die shrink here.

Do you not look at yourself before you post? If this was about Intel doing a CPU Tick with only a small increase in die size, would you seriously be spitting foam throwing speculation about a 60-100% improvement? I HIGHLY doubt that.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
200
106
Here's Charlie's take on it all.
2011 is looking like an(other) ugly year for the Green team.
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/09/06/what-amds-northern-islands/
There's a lot that makes sense here, now that it's been spelled out. Rather than hold a design waiting for the next process shrink they reworked it for 40nm. It would have needed to be reworked anyway for 28nm and would have been a dated design by then. This would in all likelihood allow nVidia to catch up. Probably pass them with a newer design. Now the 28nm shrink will be on a whole new 28nm design. Not on a reworked 32nm one. i really wonder what nVidia is going to do to counter. Imagine if they really thought that the 6*** (SI rumored) cards were just going to be a ~15% improvement on Cypress. They probably thought they only needed to get Fermi to yield uncrippled chips and they'd be OK. Low on profitability, but still competitive. Now the rumored 475, 485, 495(I still don't see this one possible. Not as a reference design anyway, due to power requirements.) aren't going to be in the same league as NI (Why am I picturing the emperor from Star Wars in the scene where he tells Luke to behold the fully functioning death star?).
 

Will Robinson

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2009
1,408
0
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VRZone:
"HD 6000 isn't the minor refresh as heavily rumoured, but features a series of minor improvements and optimizations which add up to make a card that is faster clock-for-clock and also more power efficient. Now that the 40nm TSMC process has sufficiently matured, and AMD has complete grasp of the process, the designers have been able to utilize the die space more efficiently."
As I said here:
That sentence doesn't maker sense.Isn't a minor refresh a series of minor improvements and optimizations?
It probably should read:"HD 6000 isn't the minor refresh as heavily rumoured, but features a series of major improvements and optimizations which add up to make a card that is faster clock-for-clock and also more power efficient. Now that the 40nm TSMC process has sufficiently matured, and AMD has complete grasp of the process, the designers have been able to utilize the die space more efficiently." __________________
ATi has sandbagged this new part very well... as the Green Team is about to find out...to their intense discomfort.^_^
 

Madcatatlas

Golden Member
Feb 22, 2010
1,155
0
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I also read that in some applications/tests, the 6k series would be slower than Evergreen cards.
Not sure why you dont mention this straight away Will, id hate to give a certain few forum posters a free shot later on :D
 

Will Robinson

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2009
1,408
0
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I noted those reservations Charles had about some apps but hey all that really matters is if it is a decent step up in performance from the 5 series cards while still having good HPN numbers.
I'm also very interested in how the 3rd generation UVD will perform and whether rumors of a new, stripped down control panel turn out to be true.
NV fans have long raved about their easy profile setups,it would be good for AMD to address that and deliver something as good and/or better.
They also need to get CrossfireX scaling as well as SLI or dump what they have and start over.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,606
134
106
That explains why the high end (6800) won't release till early 2011. It's not ready yet.
My bet is, the only card you will see before Christmas is the 6770. Thats the card I'm looking for anyway. :)

http://vr-zone.com/articles/-rumour-amd-to-release-radeon-hd-6800-in-early-2011-mainstream-hd-6000-in-q4-2010/9744.html


It also explains the rebadged story. The real N.I. will only be a refresh later next year. A.K.A 6790,6890

So do you have any hard evidence or is just rumor sites?

Because if rumor sites is considered evidence then here is one saying the 6800 and 6900 will lunch shortly after the 6700 and the TOP TO BOTTOM release will be finish by EARLY 2011

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/09/06/what-amds-northern-islands/

When is the HD6000 series launching? There have been rumors of October 12th flying around, but that is not the launch date. On October 12th, there is an event related to the 6000 series, but there won't be cards on sale until October 25 +/- a day or two depending on schedules.

What is going to launch then? The one area where AMD has a hole in their lineup is the $175-250 range, and that would be filled by the hypothetical 6700 line. In a stunning bit of coincidence, that is exactly what will launch first, shortly followed by the 6800 and 6900 line. In early 2011, the lower end parts will backfill the lineup, and that will be it. Until 28nm. Then things get really interesting.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
998
126
That explains why the high end (6800) won't release till early 2011. It's not ready yet.
My bet is, the only card you will see before Christmas is the 6770. Thats the card I'm looking for anyway. :)

http://vr-zone.com/articles/-rumour-amd-to-release-radeon-hd-6800-in-early-2011-mainstream-hd-6000-in-q4-2010/9744.html


It also explains the rebadged story. The real N.I. will only be a refresh later next year. A.K.A 6790,6890


I think we'll see the 68xx parts before 2011. Charlie mentioned it in his SA article, and if there's anything most people can't argue with is that he's been correct on approximante launch dates. AMD will want to have these out in time for Christmas shopping, that just makes sense.

All these parts are being built on 40nm, which AMD is familiar with. I guess we'll see how it plays out over the next couple months, but I do believe we'll see the 6870 in time for Christmas.
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
0
71
Ahhh, I feel sorry for Nvidia. This isn't even as bad the 9700/9800 times.

Im actually hoping this doesn't go on for too long. Just when AMD has their wallet nice and thick It would be good. I don't want either one of them to go out of business.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,080
1,218
126
Then why is the 5850 still selling for $30 over its launch price if nobody wants to buy in this segment? The GTX 460 and GTX 470 give better price/performance than the 5850.



I see you believe in God. Or at least magical silicon fairies.
There's no die shrink here.

Do you not look at yourself before you post? If this was about Intel doing a CPU Tick with only a small increase in die size, would you seriously be spitting foam throwing speculation about a 60-100% improvement? I HIGHLY doubt that.
I think you miss the point, sir. AMD's new midrange 6 series card is going to make the GTX 460 unappealing, as their new cards will offer better performance for the same dollar. Or perhaps better performance for $30 more as the 460 continues to get further slashed in price as nvidia tries to fire sale them before AMD drops their new cards.

Now is not a good time to buy a GTX 460, in another month you'll be able to get a more powerful, second-generation DX11 card from AMD in the same price bracket.

Second, you don't need a die shrink to deliver more performance. If you were not aware, the 9800GTX was on 65nm and the GTX 280 was also on 65nm. The GTX 280 offered a good 35% to 40% more performance than the 9800GTX.

So there is no voodoo here. AMD is releasing a new architecture, and everyone will get to enjoy the the new levels of performance from it, if they choose to purchase one. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

When AMD's 6870 flagship comes late this year it will be significantly faster than a GTX 480. It is second generation DX11, and will deliver as such.
 
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Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,080
1,218
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Is the 6770 supposed to be on par in peformance with the 5870?
It's hard to say.

If that graph is correct, it's saying that what AMD was going to call a 6770, they will now call a 6870, perhaps their next gen's 5850 type of card ?

What would of been called 6870, will be 6970, the single-gpu flagship.

And what would of been called 6970 will be 6990, the dual-gpu flagship.

Most rumors point to AMD having revised the plan for the upcoming gen's 6770 to come more in line with the good performance of the upper-tier cards and take a better hold of the mid-range market.

If they execute properly, it would make sense for it to fall somewhere around 5850 to 5870 performance as a next gen mid-range part. But with a much lower price tag than a 5870, somewhere around $200.
 

evolucion8

Platinum Member
Jun 17, 2005
2,867
3
61
Well according to the same site the 6800 won't show up until next year.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/-rumour-amd-to-release-radeon-hd-6800-in-early-2011-mainstream-hd-6000-in-q4-2010/9744.html

So I guess we will find out next year if it performs or not.

Granted it appears that the source for this article about a new architecture is Charlie, (based on the link provided in the article).

I suppose we will find out soon enough.
With the Vantage leaked score from the HD 6800, sure it will perform.
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
AMD is going to be bringing the pain soon.

No wonder the GTX 460 is getting its price slashed again and again. In another month no one will want to buy one when AMD starts introducing their second generation DX11 video cards.
Yah but 2x460 in SLI might still be cheaper/faster than it.
 

evolucion8

Platinum Member
Jun 17, 2005
2,867
3
61
Well, if you are willing to deal with Multi GPU issues like scaling and microstuttering, a single fast GPU is better, two HD 5770 are theorically faster than the HD 5870 and cheaper, and yet, many prefer a single HD 5870.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
With the Vantage leaked score from the HD 6800, sure it will perform.
I'm sure most people want actual game benchmarks.


Either way, I suspect if AMD did indeed have a new architecture they would be promoting it already. Just like they did with Fusion/Bulldozer/Cypress. They seem to always paper launch specs and die shots long before the product comes out.
 

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