UnOfficial "Which Linux Distro for me?" thread

[lowpost]

Trucker, it did seem a bit odd.

 

[XBoxLPU]

You extracted the ISO file ??

You shouldn't need to do that, open up Nero>burn image

716,702 KB = 699 MB ... it will burn fine ( it did for me )

 

[civad]

Why would you use Linux when every appliance store PC comes with a perfectly good OS

Uhm...

nm

 

[eastvillager]

debian is pretty hard to beat if you're putting up servers you actually have to maintain/support, imho, at least in comparison to other linux distros.

 

[KF]

Originally posted by: OffTopic

Originally posted by: Trucker61
OK, now I am intrigued. I use my computer to web cruise, play FPS games and occasionally use
MS office. which OS should I use and where can I get it?

There are hundreds of distros that will do what you asked...

Come on. Linux promoters are shameless trying to gain a convert. FPS games? Do not expect to be able to play any new or recent Windows FPS game, with some few exceptions. The rarity of rarities is supported natively under linux by the game's creator (notably ID.)

There is a private company that distributes a Windows game adapter module, WINEX, and allows pay subscribers to choose which games the company will adapt. At least that's the way it worked when I was directed to it by a linux philliac a couple of years ago. Naturally the linuxophilliac neglected to include the qualifications.

Also, the good video driver that you will need for first class 3D (or probably any 3D) is not distributed with distros, for copyright/patent reasons. The distos include drivers which are just fine for basic 2D. You have to get the proprietary linux driver elsewhere (like the manufactures web site) and puzzle out how to install it. Take the pains to print out the instructions, because it is not something you would guess. You normally have to do this with the GUI desktop shut down and at a command line. Different distros need different drivers. Red Hat and Mandrake usually have had pre-made drivers on the Nvidia site. Others, you will probably have to build yourself.


-----------------
"How would rate Kerry's thinking on an absolute scale up to 10."
.6 + .8i, where i is the square root of -1.

 

[lowpost]

KF: Please take your misinformation elsewhere. Factual posting and guided discussion in a positive nature are what this thread needs. If someone comes here to see what linux has to offer, then they are curious... they may look for what you want, or they may not. "Linuxophilliacs" got that way by reading a lot of documentation. It seems you read a few spurts about the negatives of linux and never bothered to fix your own problems because you were use to the "windows update" feature. Gentoo has detailed documentation on installing Nvidia and ATI drivers. Games run well. WINEX is subscription based, but you can get it for free and in a lot of cases, you can just use the free version of wine instead. Things have changed as of late, and your comments are misleading to interested people.

 

[n0cmonkey]

I think if you could have posted this in a polite fashion, I might not have responded at all.

Originally posted by: KFCome on. Linux promoters are shameless trying to gain a convert. FPS games? Do not expect to be able to play any new or recent Windows FPS game, with some few exceptions.

Like?

The rarity of rarities is supported natively under linux by the game's creator (notably ID.)

iD is great. Linux support has gotten them atleast one more sale than they would have gotten before. I never even installed the game.

There is a private company that distributes a Windows game adapter module, WINEX, and allows pay subscribers to choose which games the company will adapt. At least that's the way it worked when I was directed to it by a linux philliac a couple of years ago. Naturally the linuxophilliac neglected to include the qualifications.

You can use it for free. They distribute the source under the GPL.

Also, the good video driver that you will need for first class 3D (or probably any 3D) is not distributed with distros, for copyright/patent reasons.

And this is the fault of nVidia, not any particular distro. Have you read the license? It's horrible. It barely gives you permission to use it, and does it's best to limit you to nothing else.

The distos include drivers which are just fine for basic 2D. You have to get the proprietary linux driver elsewhere (like the manufactures web site)

Where else would you get drivers for your video card? The manufacturer seems like a logical choice to me.

and puzzle out how to install it.

The instructions are pretty simple. In fact, if I can't get the instructions to easily work, I'll buy you a beer. I've never installed the drivers, but I could understand the instructions well enough to write a How-to on it. Now that I own an nVidia product (first ever ), I guess I should try it out.

Take the pains to print out the instructions, because it is not something you would guess.

They seemed pretty simple to me.

You normally have to do this with the GUI desktop shut down and at a command line.

Makes sense to me.

Different distros need different drivers.

WRONG. They use the same drivers. They're just packaged differently. Which is something I tried to point out in my writeups of Slackware and Debian (the differences betwen the PMSes).

Red Hat and Mandrake usually have had pre-made drivers on the Nvidia site. Others, you will probably have to build yourself.

boohoo. Again, this is not the fault of the distros, but the fault of the owners of the copyright to the drivers.

 

[lucky9]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Maybe we can use the newer version of the Slackware comment I made, since the "behind the curve" comment is easy to misinterpret.

Here's something for debian. Comments please. No offence meant anywhere. I do like Debian.

And just so I don't get crap for it, the (GNU) free comment is there because there are different definitions of free depending on what part of the FOSS world you ask. I figured that, with the link, was an easy way to exlplain which free they meant.

Debian:

Debian is one of the most advanced Linux distros available today. Debian focuses on stability and (GNU) free software. Debian has a strict Social Contract that is applied to the system. Their commitment to (GNU/not-GNU) free software is amazing, and almost unmatched in the Free/Open Source Software world. It is one of the reasons the Debian contributers deserve praise and support.

The current installer is menu driven, and often considered tough for users that are new to Linux. To make up for it, the online documentation is amazing, and should cover all issues during the install. They do admit to there being issues with the install documentation, but it has proven itself atleast adequate in the past. The installer supports atleast FTP, CDROM, hard drive, and netboot installs, but Debian relies on the user to setup most of the hardware. Initializing the driver module for the network adapter is common after installation.

There is work being done on a new installer for Debian, but this won't mention it much because it is not ready yet.

Debian focuses on stability, and not necessarily features. On the stable and testing branches of Debian, software is often an older version. Security patches are backported, so that is not necessarily a concern with using the older versions of software. These software packages have been thoroughly tested by developers and users, and are considered some of the best packages around.

Software installation is a breeze with Debian. The large package respository covers a great deal of software, and not finding a piece of software you need is the exception, not the rule. Binary software packages are in a .deb format, and can be installed through dpkg, apt, or one of the great front ends (like dselect). The package management system takes care of dependancies and restarting any services that are installed or modified. Often configuration information is gathered through the front end in use, so that can simplify things for many users. Generally the only time a reboot is necessary is when the kernel is changed, which can happen though dpkg (not done by default) or through a local compile.

Just about every Window Manager and Desktop Environment can be installed through the package management system, so there is no default GUI for Debian.

ditto, the exception to install complexity noted os resolved with knoppix for me. apt-get is great!

 

[XBoxLPU]

A nice overview of the Slackware packages

 

[KF]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I think if you could have posted this in a polite fashion, I might not have responded at all.

**me: Sorry if I was impolite. I thought it was to the point. Maybe the guy that posted didn't know he was wrong about FPS gaming, doesn't know what a FPS is, or didn't notice it was listed. It can happen. Nevertheless, I do see excessive papering-over of difficulties by linux lovers. I see it a lot. I see it so much, I am as suspicious of linux extremists as I am of the proverbial used car salesman. I am disturbed about it. In fact, I was "taken in" by one of them with respect to both WINE and WINEX years ago. Looks like it is still going on.

Is that polite? I hope so.

Unfortunately, it also obsured the point. And since linux gurus seldom bother with tact to any expressed quibbles, you may understand my tendency go along with the tone they set. Maybe they don't notice they are so abrasive and antagonistic. They are fighting THE DEVIL.

Originally posted by: KFCome on. Linux promoters are shameless trying to gain a convert. FPS games? Do not expect to be able to play any new or recent Windows FPS game, with some few exceptions.

Like?

***me: I' m not sure what you are asking. Normally a retail game will not have a native linux version. I have heard of a few that do, namely QuakeII/III. As I understand it, Windows games normally will have issues run with WINEX until Transgaming does whatever it does. Therefore they have a subscription.
WINEX release notes page

Check out the link for the very long list of specific remaining game issues at the end. For a typical example:
"Dungeon Siege
-------------

* DS will lock up as soon as you move the mouse when using nVidia 4496
and later drivers....
* Even with older nVidia drivers, game may not work on some systems.
* Do not hit the 'ESC' key during game play, as it will cause the
game to freeze.
* Some setups may experience deadlocks before the main menu. ...
"


These are the issues that have been fixed (from their site):
"
WineX 3.3.1
-----------

* The latest patch level of EverQuest, based on DirectX9, is completely
playable.
* Annoying sound delay should be eliminated in games such as Medal of
Honor: Allied Assault.
* Full screen applications will now work in KDE 3.2.
* Installer speed in some degenerate cases has been dramatically improved.
The install time for Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind, for instance, has been
reduced from over 2 hours to 45 minutes.
* Multiplayer games in Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne should no longer crash.
* Half Life voice chat should now work on a larger number of sound cards.
* A number of bug and compatibility fixes.
"
In other word, until this version, you had these problems. You don't think complete linux newbies who plan on playing FPS (First Person Shooters), like Trucker61 said he did, should know the qualifications BEFORE they attempt it? Why not? I do.

Is all this surprising? No. MS has been continually coming out with new versions of DirectX. They aren't just fixes and enhancements; they put completely new things in it. Then new games start using some of the new stuff, and this Transgaming company has to figure out what to do.

The rarity of rarities is supported natively under linux by the game's creator (notably ID.)

iD is great. Linux support has gotten them atleast one more sale than they would have gotten before. I never even installed the game.

** me: I have installed Quake II and III. (In the past, just to see.) IMO, they played at least as good with linux. I'm not much of a gamer, but I have a couple. With my current versions of Red Hat and Mandrake, Q3 does not run, and I have not figured out why.

There is a private company that distributes a Windows game adapter module, WINEX, and allows pay subscribers to choose which games the company will adapt. At least that's the way it worked when I was directed to it by a linux philliac a couple of years ago. Naturally the linuxophilliac neglected to include the qualifications.

You can use it for free. They distribute the source under the GPL.

**me: When I try it, they send me through a pay subcription sign up (just like they did in years past) , which takes a credit card (no debit cards, no FedEx) payment to get through. How did you circumvent it?

This is what they say:
"Note: Prepackaged files are only available to subscribers."

They say they distribute their own code under AFL, and that:
"Pre-built packages of WineX contain components licensed from third parties, and may not be redistributed in whole for any reason. "

Remember. this is WINEX, not WINE. WINE does not have the ability to run these types of games.

Also, the good video driver that you will need for first class 3D (or probably any 3D) is not distributed with distros, for copyright/patent reasons.

And this is the fault of nVidia, not any particular distro. Have you read the license? It's horrible. It barely gives you permission to use it, and does it's best to limit you to nothing else.

**me. I think Nvidia says their code contains (or may contain) code licensed from elsewhere, and that's why they have to do it that way. It is perfectly normal and common for commercial software to contain software licensed from elsewhere. Probably Nvidia would let distros put the proprietary driver on the CD with a separate license, not under GPL. But that would poison the GPL premise of linux.

The distos include drivers which are just fine for basic 2D. You have to get the proprietary linux driver elsewhere (like the manufactures web site)

Where else would you get drivers for your video card? The manufacturer seems like a logical choice to me.

** Of course it's logical. A lot of Windows users, who are likely to be the newbies this thread is supposed to be for (I thought) do not expect to download a linux driver from a manufacturer, since the distro includes a driver. I recall one newbie complaining that QuakeII ran dead slow and looked lousey. No wonder; he was using the driver the distro set him up with.
From the first line of the first post: " This thread is to help newbies to decide what they want to try first."

and puzzle out how to install it.

The instructions are pretty simple. In fact, if I can't get the instructions to easily work, I'll buy you a beer. I've never installed the drivers, but I could understand the instructions well enough to write a How-to on it. Now that I own an nVidia product (first ever ), I guess I should try it out.

**me: Are you in average Windows user? Are you a newbie?

Take the pains to print out the instructions, because it is not something you would guess.

They seemed pretty simple to me.

**me: I don't think average Windows users would guess. You do? IAC, being Windows oriented, I had to memorize it, but something didn't go as expected, and I ended up going back to Windows and back to the web site. Now, if I had printed it out...

You normally have to do this with the GUI desktop shut down and at a command line.

Makes sense to me.

**me: Makes sense to someone familiar with linux. Windows users (newbies) never shut down the GUI to install anything. They are never without on-screen help available. Therefore they should be told before their attempt to install the drivers from a window that it doesn't work. (Actually Windows masks shuting down the GUI, and other things, when you reboot during some installs, and it has a way of getting around the command line.)

Different distros need different drivers.

WRONG. They use the same drivers. They're just packaged differently. Which is something I tried to point out in my writeups of Slackware and Debian (the differences betwen the PMSes).

**me: Have it your way. You still have to pick a package (a driver) according to the distro.

Red Hat and Mandrake usually have had pre-made drivers on the Nvidia site. Others, you will probably have to build yourself.

boohoo. Again, this is not the fault of the distros, but the fault of the owners of the copyright to the drivers.

**me: Yeah boohoo. The point is you WILL have to do it to run your FPS game.

I'm not picking on picking on poor, little linux. This is reality, and this is a sticky for NEWBIES to consult, I thought. Think of this way: A lot of people have a bad experience with their encounter with linux. That is the number one cause of resistance to linux, IMO. Giving people a false impression of what to expect only makes more people have a bad experience. I don't know how to balance it. Maybe you linux extremists can do it better. I don't want people to get wrong ideas (like I did), but listing the problems can also make it seem harder than it will be.

 

[n0cmonkey]

No need to "circumvent" anything, the source is there for all. http://www.transgaming.com/sources.php

 

[KF]

Originally posted by: lowpost
KF: Please take your misinformation elsewhere. Factual posting and guided discussion in a positive nature are what this thread needs. If someone comes here to see what linux has to offer, then they are curious... they may look for what you want, or they may not. "Linuxophilliacs" got that way by reading a lot of documentation. It seems you read a few spurts about the negatives of linux and never bothered to fix your own problems because you were use to the "windows update" feature. Gentoo has detailed documentation on installing Nvidia and ATI drivers. Games run well. WINEX is subscription based, but you can get it for free and in a lot of cases, you can just use the free version of wine instead. Things have changed as of late, and your comments are misleading to interested people.

Since my post informed people of how and what to do, I think it IS of a positive nature. It is negative about the way linux afficianados make claims. Some one (trucker61) said he wanted to run FPS games in linux. Check out the video forum for what these people expect from a gaming experience. What is the problem with tellling people what they actually have to do?

I am not aware of any misinformation I posted. I will delete any misinformation that is in fact misinformation. Since there seems to be some claim to WINEX being free, I went to the owner's site and went through the procedure, just like I have before, and it still says I have to pay. Since I don't put in a credit card number, I can't get it.

The link to Winex from a Wine page sends me to sourceforge.net, which says
"NOTE: This project IS NOT licensed under an Open Source license."

and

"Latest File Releases

Package Version Date Notes / Monitor Download
This Project Has Not Released Any Files
"

My current guess is that people are talking about a CVS repository, containing an incomplete version of WINEX in source code. If some one knows what to do with a CVS repository, and therefore probably knows how to build a program from source code, he could make a partial Winex minus some things they put in the actual Winex package. Sounds like an interesting project if you don't know anything about such things. OTOH, you cold pay a few bucks to the owners and get the package. These guys are not being unreasonable. I don't see what is so negative about informing people of reality. IMO, telling people otherwise is misinformation.

Maybe I'm mistaken in thinking this thread was actually directed to newbiies, like it says at the beginning.

 

[lowpost]

WineX source code

If you build the source, then it is free.

 

[Rob_63]

Well, I just strained/stretched the ligaments in my R foot in a dirt biking accident, and as soon as I come out of my vicoden induced stupor I will install the knoppix that I have downloaded. It all seems a bit confusing right now, a lot of lingo/terminology that I have not heard before. Can anyone point me to a site or webpage that explains it all?

 

[oLLie]

Is there any one distro which has the largest development community?

 

[lowpost]

By my observation, Gentoo's development community is extremely active.

Debian is supposed to have a huge community as well.

 

[DavLucMac]

My personal experience with Linux in any way/shape/form has been for simple file and webservers. Only recently have I moved to linux with the familiartiy gained from OSX in the *nix environment. I have an HTPC project I'm working on, and I have to choose between 3 different distros. Fedora, Mandrake 10 and knoppmyth. It looks like everything will pretty much be cinched by which one WORKS on install. Mandrake 10.0 Community wouldn't detect either of my LAN cards. Fedora Core 2 Test 3 works fine... but I'm most interested in KnoppMyth. It seems the easiest to get things working from install to use. It's hit or miss though. If I have to mess around with things, I might as well do it with fedora.

Dav

 

[raystorm]

Is anyone here using linux on an asus a7n8x deluxe-e AND using the onboard LAN without a problem? I previously tried out Mandrake 9.2 a couple of months ago (first time using linux) and it would never work with either my onboard LAN (I used everything from nvidia drivers to forcedeth..etc..no to avail) or my radeon 9800.

Now I really don't care about using 3d acceleration as I use Windows for gaming, but I really would love to try out a distro of Linux that works with the onboard LAN. Anyone using this particular mobo and had luck with either Mandrake, Fedora..etc (something easy to deal with for noobs like me) working with the onboard LAN?

thanks!

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: raystorm
Is anyone here using linux on an asus a7n8x deluxe-e AND using the onboard LAN without a problem? I previously tried out Mandrake 9.2 a couple of months ago (first time using linux) and it would never work with either my onboard LAN (I used everything from nvidia drivers to forcedeth..etc..no to avail) or my radeon 9800.

Now I really don't care about using 3d acceleration as I use Windows for gaming, but I really would love to try out a distro of Linux that works with the onboard LAN. Anyone using this particular mobo and had luck with either Mandrake, Fedora..etc (something easy to deal with for noobs like me) working with the onboard LAN?

thanks!

nVidia is very hostile towards the FOSS community. The best option is to get a network card that is supported well. You can even pick up a decent NIC at the same time.

 

[lowpost]

knoppix 3.4 and gentoo 2004.1 will work with nvidia's onboard LAN

edit: fedora core 2 as well

 

[n0cmonkey]

The ABC's of Unix

A is for awk which runs like a snail, and
B is for biff which reads all your mail.

C is for cc as hackers recall, while
D is for dd the command that does all.

E is for emacs which rebinds your keys, and
F is for fsck which rebuilds your trees.

G is for grep a clever detective, while
H is for halt which may seem defective.

I is for indent which rarely amuses, and
J is for join which nobody uses.

K is for kill which makes you the boss, while
L is for lex which is missing from DOS.

M is for more from which less was begot, and
N is for nice which it really is not.

O is for od which prints out things nice, while
P is for passwd which reads in strings twice.

Q is for quota a Berkeley-type fable, and
R is for ranlib for sorting ar table.

S is for spell which attempts to belittle, while
T is for true which does very little.

U is for uniq which is used after sort, and
V is for vi which is hard to abort.

W is for whoami which tells you your name, while
X is, well, X of dubious fame.

Y is for yes which makes an impression, and
Z is for zcat which handles compression.

 

[shimsham]

anyone know a distro that has ATI drivers built in? ive seen a few with nvidias drivers included.

 

[lowpost]

knoppix has ati drivers

 

[johnnnny5]

I think it's silly that there are so many different distros. If they combined dev power (more than already is being done), they could seriously pump out a mean OS.

I'm not saying that the current Linux's aren't great... they are.. but I think they'd be even better if the distro development teams were consolidated.

 

[Bremen]

Originally posted by: johnnnny5
I think it's silly that there are so many different distros. If they combined dev power (more than already is being done), they could seriously pump out a mean OS.

I'm not saying that the current Linux's aren't great... they are.. but I think they'd be even better if the distro development teams were consolidated.

Except all the various developers would not be able to agree on what an uber OS should be. They each have different goals and diffent agendas. Besides which distro's do very little dev work for the most part any way. That is the province of package maintainers, distros for the most part merely decide whose packages to include.