* * * Unofficial NF4 sux thread * * *

[iwantanewcomputer]

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I could care less about sound storm.

So you do care? If you could not care less then you would care little. If you do not care at all then just say so.

haha good one. this ticks me off too. i don't really care about firewire(get a cheapo add on) or soundstorm (audigy 2, thank you) but there is no performance??? wtf. isn't that the point of a new chipset?

 

[biostud]

Basically it's nForce3 with PCIe (Including SLI) support instead of AGP and some other small feature enhancements.
After AMD put their memory controller on the die, the chipsets doesn't differ that much in performance, as was the case with nForce2 and AthlonXP.

 

[Gamingphreek]

How can you say not much in peformance. The REFERENCE board no tweaking or anything equaled or exceeded the fastest Nforce 3 board out. Sounds pretty good to me.

I am disappointed that SS is not included thoguh.

Also i dont remember them ever saying that they would have on chip firewire. Everyone has to have an addin chip for onboard firewire. Remember REFERENCE BOARD.

Seems to be really really good but the fact with the lack of SS keeps it from being excellent or great.

-Kevin

 

[wraith3k]

Originally posted by: Wahsapa

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Shadax

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
But if he could care less then that means he cares to some degree... If he could not care less then he that implies he either he doesn't care at all assuming it's universe where that is possible or he does care. So it's an ambiguous statement either way. We need more information about the universe he is in.

All you need to know about that universe is that Fry and Lela are married.

Haha, I watched that last night.


"Always complaining about me: 'stop spraying me with ink Zoidberg! Put on pants Zoiderg!'"

:laugh: I'll never understand why it was canceled, never.

because some dumb-fcuk execs moved the time slot around destroying the ratings it got and thought the simpsons deserved to be on for another 10 years :|

The fox network will cancel anything classified as "funny".

 

[parkbench]

Someone answer this question and don't bull$#|7 me:

If there's room in this market for an Athlon64 FX-55, a Geforce 6800 Ultra, a ATI X800XT PE, and a Pentium4 Extreme Edition... HOW IS THERE NO ROOM FOR SOUNDSTORM? Make a high end board, kick the price up $50. I'd friggin pay some extra bones for SS and I know for a fact that others would too just by looking at this thread.

If you ask me, somebody made a serious tactical error in marketing and as a result nVidia just gave up. Don't for a second tell me it's economics though, that's just the excuse the motherboards makers give because not enough people knew what Soundstorm offered!

I've got a question though, why can't/doesn't the SB Audigy do DD encoding?

 

[kogase]

I'm looking forward to NCQ and 3Gb/s SATA. Not that any drive will be doing 3Gb/s anytime soon, but the NCQ is still nice.

 

[Sideswipe001]

Has nVidia ever given a REASON for not using SoundStorm? I mean, people loved it so much last time...did they just drop it without a word?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Sideswipe001
Has nVidia ever given a REASON for not using SoundStorm? I mean, people loved it so much last time...did they just drop it without a word?

nV didn't drop SS, the board makers did. It also wasn't dropped silently, over@nForcersHQ we did what we could but a petition and e-mailing the manufacturers isn't very effective when you don't have signatures and e-mails in the 6 figures+ bracket to carry some weight with them

 

[uOpt]

Correct me if I am wrong, but since the PCIe SLI solution will connect both cards with PCIe-8 it doesn't really scale too well, will it?

Originally I thought the whole point about PCI express is that you have 5-8 equal slots and can plug any card in any slot and have 5-8 video cards (not SLI, just for heads) if that is what you want.

From a flexibility standpoint PCIe is a huge, huge disappointment.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: MartinCracauer
Correct me if I am wrong, but since the PCIe SLI solution will connect both cards with PCIe-8 it doesn't really scale too well, will it?

Originally I thought the whole point about PCI express is that you have 5-8 equal slots and can plug any card in any slot and have 5-8 video cards (not SLI, just for heads) if that is what you want.

From a flexibility standpoint PCIe is a huge, huge disappointment.

Most add-oncards aren't limited by bus bandwidth. With that said the current PCI bus is starting to be limiting for some tasks, so a new and faster bus is required, hence PCIe. AFAIK most chipsets will support up to 20 PCIe lanes, I think it's possible to make more but probably will be to expensive. So in theory you can divide these lanes in a way you (motherboardmakers) find optimal. So to keep a standard a PCIe x16 slot is required for graphic cards, for SLI the two slots share the 16 lanes. So now you have 4 lanes for the rest of the slots. I would think that they in most cases be arranged as 4x1 PCIe.

I think that the rest of the PCIe slots can be used for a theoretical PCIe x1 videocard, just as you can get PCI cards today. I think it would be to complicated and expensive to make all the slots possible x16 slots.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: Sideswipe001
Has nVidia ever given a REASON for not using SoundStorm? I mean, people loved it so much last time...did they just drop it without a word?

The Dolby license costs too much.

 

[glugglug]

PCIe-8 is the same bandwidth as AGP8x. So that's not really an issue for scaling.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: biostud666

Originally posted by: Sideswipe001
Has nVidia ever given a REASON for not using SoundStorm? I mean, people loved it so much last time...did they just drop it without a word?

The Dolby license costs too much.

That is the board makers stance, along with not being too excited about the rigid certification requirements necessary to permit use of the SoundStorm logo. I'm just glad it is in X-box as I sold my SN45G and would definitely miss having it for my HTPC needs which after modding the X-box does competently.

 

[uOpt]

Originally posted by: biostud666

Originally posted by: MartinCracauer
Correct me if I am wrong, but since the PCIe SLI solution will connect both cards with PCIe-8 it doesn't really scale too well, will it?

Originally I thought the whole point about PCI express is that you have 5-8 equal slots and can plug any card in any slot and have 5-8 video cards (not SLI, just for heads) if that is what you want.

From a flexibility standpoint PCIe is a huge, huge disappointment.

Most add-oncards aren't limited by bus bandwidth. With that said the current PCI bus is starting to be limiting for some tasks, so a new and faster bus is required, hence PCIe. AFAIK most chipsets will support up to 20 PCIe lanes, I think it's possible to make more but probably will be to expensive. So in theory you can divide these lanes in a way you (motherboardmakers) find optimal. So to keep a standard a PCIe x16 slot is required for graphic cards, for SLI the two slots share the 16 lanes. So now you have 4 lanes for the rest of the slots. I would think that they in most cases be arranged as 4x1 PCIe.

I think that the rest of the PCIe slots can be used for a theoretical PCIe x1 videocard, just as you can get PCI cards today. I think it would be to complicated and expensive to make all the slots possible x16 slots.

Thanks.

But one more question: what is the point about the PCIe 1x slots?

I don't think there are any cards available and if they were they would be the same speed as 33 MHz 32 bit PCI, would they?

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
i just droppe $400 on a 6800GT and they are about to give it to me in the ass if they dont give me an AGP port

Huh? You were expecting AGP on nF4? Chipsets are either AGP or PCIe not both. nF3 is AGP and nF4 is PCIe. They're virtually the same otherwise.

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I could care less about sound storm.

So you do care? If you could not care less then you would care little. If you do not care at all then just say so.

"Could not care less" implies that his level of care is rock bottom, therefore caring less is impossible. So he can't care less.

Read again. GTaudiophile "could care less".

Well la dee da!

hahahaha. Oh well, I guess you are correct. Too tired to try and weasel out of it.

Do you mean "try to weasel"? LOL

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Concillian

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
i just droppe $400 on a 6800GT and they are about to give it to me in the ass if they dont give me an AGP port

Huh? You were expecting AGP on nF4? Chipsets are either AGP or PCIe not both. nF3 is AGP and nF4 is PCIe. They're virtually the same otherwise.

Exactly. Putting both on the board was done, but with a disclaimer about how the signaling differences could kill your AGP card, and it was recommended to use one only for short term while waiting for you PCIe card. Even then damaging your card was possible so this isn't a good idea and obviously why it isn't being done on nF4.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: MartinCracauer

Originally posted by: biostud666

Originally posted by: MartinCracauer
Correct me if I am wrong, but since the PCIe SLI solution will connect both cards with PCIe-8 it doesn't really scale too well, will it?

Originally I thought the whole point about PCI express is that you have 5-8 equal slots and can plug any card in any slot and have 5-8 video cards (not SLI, just for heads) if that is what you want.

From a flexibility standpoint PCIe is a huge, huge disappointment.

Most add-oncards aren't limited by bus bandwidth. With that said the current PCI bus is starting to be limiting for some tasks, so a new and faster bus is required, hence PCIe. AFAIK most chipsets will support up to 20 PCIe lanes, I think it's possible to make more but probably will be to expensive. So in theory you can divide these lanes in a way you (motherboardmakers) find optimal. So to keep a standard a PCIe x16 slot is required for graphic cards, for SLI the two slots share the 16 lanes. So now you have 4 lanes for the rest of the slots. I would think that they in most cases be arranged as 4x1 PCIe.

I think that the rest of the PCIe slots can be used for a theoretical PCIe x1 videocard, just as you can get PCI cards today. I think it would be to complicated and expensive to make all the slots possible x16 slots.

Thanks.

But one more question: what is the point about the PCIe 1x slots?

I don't think there are any cards available and if they were they would be the same speed as 33 MHz 32 bit PCI, would they?

Not atm, but slowly we'll see cards for PCIe emerging just like when going fro ISA to PCI. There's just not the same amount of hype about it as with videocards.

 

[Sideswipe001]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: biostud666

Originally posted by: Sideswipe001
Has nVidia ever given a REASON for not using SoundStorm? I mean, people loved it so much last time...did they just drop it without a word?

The Dolby license costs too much.

That is the board makers stance, along with not being too excited about the rigid certification requirements necessary to permit use of the SoundStorm logo. I'm just glad it is in X-box as I sold my SN45G and would definitely miss having it for my HTPC needs which after modding the X-box does competently.

Isn't it possible that one company would put in on their board then? Like, Asus' NF4 board would come with SS, while Abit's wouldn't?

 

[uOpt]

Originally posted by: biostud666

Originally posted by: MartinCracauerBut one more question: what is the point about the PCIe 1x slots?

I don't think there are any cards available and if they were they would be the same speed as 33 MHz 32 bit PCI, would they?

Not atm, but slowly we'll see cards for PCIe emerging just like when going fro ISA to PCI. There's just not the same amount of hype about it as with videocards.

Well, but what would be the benefit if PCIe is not faster?

I see they are probably cheaper in manufracturing and from an electricity standpoint it will certainly be doable to have more slots but otherwise?

 

[dmw16]

The big thing w/ NF4 is SLI and w/ it PCIe support for AMD CPUs. Most people who can afford 2 GF6800GTs or Ultras can afford a decent PCI video card

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: MartinCracauer
But one more question: what is the point about the PCIe 1x slots?

I don't think there are any cards available and if they were they would be the same speed as 33 MHz 32 bit PCI, would they?

The primary benefits of PCIe 1x:
It is a DEDICATED BUS, so cards do not share bandwidth. PCI was shared, so with IDE ports on PCI and a gigabit card on PCI working at the same time, all the PCI bandwidth was gone for EVERYTHING on the PCI bus.

IDE ports get a dedicated PCIe 1x
aftermarket RAID/SCSI cards will not soak up PCI bandwidth either. U320 SCSI? Yeah, not much use over U160 in a 32 bit 33MHz PCI slot that maxes at 133 MB/sec for EVERYTHING on the bus.
Sound cards can be made that transfer MUCH more info across the bus. We will start seeing sound cards doing more than they have done in the past, like surround encoding. because the PCI bus IS a limitation for some things from a sound card point of view, especially when that bus is shared with other devices.

In my mind the PRIMARY reason for going to PCIe is the peripherals OTHER than the graphics card. I mean to get something with similar throughput capability on PCI, you have to buy a server board with 64 bit PCI slots of some sort, either 64/66 or 64/100 or 64/133MHz, and people who make add on cards are not going to make too many cards for 64 bit PCI slots.

 

[SynthDude2001]

The lack of Soundstorm as we know it makes me sad.

 

[uOpt]

Originally posted by: Concillian

Originally posted by: MartinCracauer
But one more question: what is the point about the PCIe 1x slots?

I don't think there are any cards available and if they were they would be the same speed as 33 MHz 32 bit PCI, would they?

The primary benefits of PCIe 1x:
It is a DEDICATED BUS, so cards do not share bandwidth. PCI was shared, so with IDE ports on PCI and a gigabit card on PCI working at the same time, all the PCI bandwidth was gone for EVERYTHING on the PCI bus.

IDE ports get a dedicated PCIe 1x
aftermarket RAID/SCSI cards will not soak up PCI bandwidth either. U320 SCSI? Yeah, not much use over U160 in a 32 bit 33MHz PCI slot that maxes at 133 MB/sec for EVERYTHING on the bus.
Sound cards can be made that transfer MUCH more info across the bus. We will start seeing sound cards doing more than they have done in the past, like surround encoding. because the PCI bus IS a limitation for some things from a sound card point of view, especially when that bus is shared with other devices.

In my mind the PRIMARY reason for going to PCIe is the peripherals OTHER than the graphics card. I mean to get something with similar throughput capability on PCI, you have to buy a server board with 64 bit PCI slots of some sort, either 64/66 or 64/100 or 64/133MHz, and people who make add on cards are not going to make too many cards for 64 bit PCI slots.

I see. But still, since the existing boards do not offer PCIe 2x I would be worse off than with a Xeon board with 64bit and/or 100/133MHz PCI slots.

I am really disappointed that instead of finding boards where I can have 2-3 equally fast video cards (not SLI, for multihead) and which would have the potential for multiple fast Ethernet and disk controllers I am only finding boards which offer no benefit at all, with the exception of using several PCIe 1x at once. But since they only have two of these slots either that's not too hot either.

Don't you think that soundcards will, really soon, switch to transport compressed streams to the card? If they have mixers and placement logic on board that would even work for most games.

 

[ciwell]

Definitely going to stick with nForce3...especially since the prices will most likely go down more and more as nF4 becomes more 'prevalent.'