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Universal Healthcare in the US

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People need to understand that most surgeries are elective and very few have survival benefits (ie affect living and dying). Most surgeries that occur are for symptom management or symptom prevention (or a knee replacement for knee pain or a heart bypass to try and prevent future heart attacks or worsening of heart function). Whilst people try and make these claims that wait times if they are a bit longer will result in bad outcomes, the reality is these countries have much better outcomes in addition to much better resource utilization. Plus there is the upfront benefit of better access to preventative care to reduce the need for more expensive restorative care in the future.
 
glenn1 said:
UHC isn't happening here in our lifetimes so OP question is moot, you might as well ask about what things would be like in the U.S. if we abolished the 2nd Amendment or outlawed abortion. All 3 are mere shiny objects meant to drum up fervor in their respective party's hardcore base and are utterly unacceptable to the other side.
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Keep on dreaming.
 
Sunburn74 said:
People need to understand that most surgeries are elective and very few have survival benefits (ie affect living and dying). Most surgeries that occur are for symptom management or symptom prevention (or a knee replacement for knee pain or a heart bypass to try and prevent future heart attacks or worsening of heart function). Whilst people try and make these claims that wait times if they are a bit longer will result in bad outcomes, the reality is these countries have much better outcomes in addition to much better resource utilization. Plus there is the upfront benefit of better access to preventative care to reduce the need for more expensive restorative care in the future.
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Don't you go bringing logic in here!
 
Sunburn74 said:
People need to understand that most surgeries are elective and very few have survival benefits (ie affect living and dying). Most surgeries that occur are for symptom management or symptom prevention (or a knee replacement for knee pain or a heart bypass to try and prevent future heart attacks or worsening of heart function). Whilst people try and make these claims that wait times if they are a bit longer will result in bad outcomes, the reality is these countries have much better outcomes in addition to much better resource utilization. Plus there is the upfront benefit of better access to preventative care to reduce the need for more expensive restorative care in the future.
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What are you some kind of libtard? Immediate access to boob jobs, hemorrhoid surgery, and penile implants is the most important way to measure a country's health care system.
 
Young Grasshopper said:
If we had universal healthcare in the USA, what kind of wait time one would expect for things like surgeries? I had nasal surgery and it took about a month and a half from the time the doctor scheduling it for myself. Also would an obese/drug addict/alcoholic type person get priority in procedure scheduling over a healthy male/female for the same procedure simply because they reported it earlier? How does this work in other countries? Do the healthy get priority over people who simply never took care of themselves?
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Crack kills...
 
Universal healthcare here and I am in for my 7th penis enlargement, I am currently rocking 3 pounds dry and 5 pounds combat ready. I have to tie a knot on it or itll rub the floor walking. Also cant wear shorts.
 
glenn1 said:
UHC isn't happening here in our lifetimes so OP question is moot, you might as well ask about what things would be like in the U.S. if we abolished the 2nd Amendment or outlawed abortion. All 3 are mere shiny objects meant to drum up fervor in their respective party's hardcore base and are utterly unacceptable to the other side.
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I'd have to disagree. UCLA did a study in 2016 that said 70% of all medical costs in California were paid for with tax dollars. How long will it take to get those last 30% on board?
 
There's no answer to your question because it depends on the kind of system that is chosen and how it is implemented. Most probably if it ever really happens, single-payer insurance would be the model. This wouldn't cause any direct rationing on surgical or procedural services, but it may do so indirectly through reimbursement amount. In general, I don't think this would be a very big deal. A large swath of America has Medicare coverage already. It's not starting from scratch.
 
interchange said:
There's no answer to your question because it depends on the kind of system that is chosen and how it is implemented. Most probably if it ever really happens, single-payer insurance would be the model. This wouldn't cause any direct rationing on surgical or procedural services, but it may do so indirectly through reimbursement amount. In general, I don't think this would be a very big deal. A large swath of America has Medicare coverage already. It's not starting from scratch.
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Interesting thought and maybe it somewhere in the ballpark of what your referring to with reimbursement but how about consumers pay up front for their healthcare with zero interest government loans (maybe its just a healthcare credit card). Reimbursement/Settlement would occur when you file your taxes and get your refund. It gives a way for the government to provide UHC, it also ensures it is provided for citizens that report their taxes.
 
dyna said:
Interesting thought and maybe it somewhere in the ballpark of what your referring to with reimbursement but how about consumers pay up front for their healthcare with zero interest government loans (maybe its just a healthcare credit card). Reimbursement/Settlement would occur when you file your taxes and get your refund. It gives a way for the government to provide UHC, it also ensures it is provided for citizens that report their taxes.
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You mean a healthcare savings account? You're dreaming if you think people are going to adequately set aside their savings for healthcare. And you're dreaming if you think the majority of people consuming the most healthcare have a lot of discretionary income to set aside in the first place.
 
Young Grasshopper said:
If we had universal healthcare in the USA, what kind of wait time one would expect for things like surgeries? I had nasal surgery and it took about a month and a half from the time the doctor scheduling it for myself. Also would an obese/drug addict/alcoholic type person get priority in procedure scheduling over a healthy male/female for the same procedure simply because they reported it earlier? How does this work in other countries? Do the healthy get priority over people who simply never took care of themselves?
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Doesn't matter how you became ill. It's not a moral judgment. What matters is how much benefit you are likely to get from treatment. An alcoholic who refuses to stop drinking is likely to wreck a new liver so will be lower priority for getting one (not about scheduling so much as limited organs for transplant available). If obesity means you are significantly less likely to survive the operation you might not get it till you lose some weight.

Healthcare is one of the few areas where there's some hope of achieving a consensus as to what priorities should be, and over what constitutes a 'need' vs a 'want'. Most accept that cancer treatment or fixing a broken limb is the former while tattoo removal or breast enlargement is the latter. There's always scope for arguments at the margins though. What funds to put towards schizophrenia treatment vs dementia vs heart disease? Hence you end up with calculations about 'quality years of life'.

There's no escape from the need to decide priorities. But the US system appears to be the most inefficient of all possible methods.
 
zinfamous said:
In other countries, the unhealthy people are harvested for proteins and fluids for food to sustain the healthy people, eliminate the living misery of said unhealthy people and their wretched lives, and to reduce the queue for healthcare. It's win-win-win!
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Wow just wow. I think that's a much better answer than the one that came immediately to my mind. I was going to say that people who don't take care of themselves should get the first attention because they will likely be the most diseased. It's not like such people can't care for themselves because nobody ever cared about them any more than people who who can't allow people in greater need than they have to get help before they do because nobody ever taught them how to be decent human beings.
 
interchange said:
You mean a healthcare savings account? You're dreaming if you think people are going to adequately set aside their savings for healthcare. And you're dreaming if you think the majority of people consuming the most healthcare have a lot of discretionary income to set aside in the first place.
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It seems like we are always dealing with the consequences of being fucked up mentally by our environmental conditions and the culture we build around us rather than changing those things. I believe this is due to the winners in society striving to maintain the conditions that make them winners. Perhaps this will change as our culture continues to go extinct and there are too few winners to maintain it.
 
We could lower our health care costs if we do what every country does...implement price controls. Unless we do that it really doesn't matter what system we use, our costs will continue to still be high.

Here's why that won't happen: Representatives are forced to spend a lot of their time fund raising and rely on big donors for support. Those donors typically prefer policies that enrich them through favorable legislation for their businesses.
Because of changes newt gingrich implemented for Congress, house representatives no longer have adequate resources to craft good, smart, complicated legislation and now pretty much rely on industry lobbyist to write their legislation.

Of course this was brought to you by the, party before country, Republican party, most specifically newt gingrich. No single man has wrecked this country as much as that man did when he was speaker of the house.
 
interchange said:
You mean a healthcare savings account? You're dreaming if you think people are going to adequately set aside their savings for healthcare. And you're dreaming if you think the majority of people consuming the most healthcare have a lot of discretionary income to set aside in the first place.
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That is not what I was trying to get across. My suggestion was around the idea of UHC being tied to reimbursement through your tax returns. That way the benefit is for tax reporting citizens. If you don't report your taxes then your going to be paying out of pocket(same as today) otherwise the government picks up the tab by reimbursing what you owe.
 
dyna said:
That is not what I was trying to get across. My suggestion was around the idea of UHC being tied to reimbursement through your tax returns. That way the benefit is for tax reporting citizens. If you don't report your taxes then your going to be paying out of pocket(same as today) otherwise the government picks up the tab by reimbursing what you owe.
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The problem with that is that it requires that people either have enough saved to pay for their healthcare or they finance it until they get that tax return.
 
dyna said:
That is not what I was trying to get across. My suggestion was around the idea of UHC being tied to reimbursement through your tax returns. That way the benefit is for tax reporting citizens. If you don't report your taxes then your going to be paying out of pocket(same as today) otherwise the government picks up the tab by reimbursing what you owe.
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So file a return every month or start a whole new industry in medical lending till you get paid back by the government.
 
dyna said:
That is not what I was trying to get across. My suggestion was around the idea of UHC being tied to reimbursement through your tax returns. That way the benefit is for tax reporting citizens. If you don't report your taxes then your going to be paying out of pocket(same as today) otherwise the government picks up the tab by reimbursing what you owe.
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Hospitals can't refuse emergency service and that should never change. Also, fuck you for worrying about bullshit.
 
dank69 said:
Hospitals can't refuse emergency service and that should never change. Also, fuck you for worrying about bullshit.
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Did I say emergency services would refuse service? Nope. I believe in Healthcare for all. If your part of UHC, your Healthcare debt is paid in full after you file your tax return.
 
brycejones said:
So file a return every month or start a whole new industry in medical lending till you get paid back by the government.
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The healthcare debt is paid in full by the government after you file your tax return which is yearly for most people. It allows checks and balances on eligibility and help keeps the tax system honest, since more people will want to file their taxes to get their healthcare debt paid by the government.
 
dyna said:
Did I say emergency services would refuse service? Nope. I believe in Healthcare for all. If your part of UHC, your Healthcare debt is paid in full after you file your tax return.
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Who carries the debt for up to a year? How do those providing health care manage their cash flow in your model?
 
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