Universal health Care (or really insurance)

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I don't know anymore. I do know this, though. If you're worried about your health, the best thing to do is actually to get healthy and the power has always, for most people, resided squarely in their hands. Healthful living is the ticket. Eat properly, workout, don't be an alcoholic, don't be a dumbass. Prevention trumps cure for most people at most points in their lives.

Good advice. But It's still good to have some type of health coverage for things like broken bones, stiches, cat scans, and 21 days in the hospital.

After all, you never know how your wife is going to react when she asks you; Does this dress make my ass look fat,,,,and you say yes.

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: JS80
before they force everyone to buy govt health insurance they should have spend $500 billion of the stimulus bill building 100 medical and nursing schools along with 100 hospitals to permanently increase the churning out of doctors, create a huge medical scholarship trust, and break the AMA monopoly.

OK....I hope your next doctor you see for a serious medical issue is the average joe

Good Luck

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: JS80
before they force everyone to buy govt health insurance they should have spend $500 billion of the stimulus bill building 100 medical and nursing schools along with 100 hospitals to permanently increase the churning out of doctors, create a huge medical scholarship trust, and break the AMA monopoly.

This will help not being able to be insured because of pre-existing conditions... I guess we should exercise and eat right too? That'll solve not being covered for pre-existing conditions too right?

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I don't know anymore. I do know this, though. If you're worried about your health, the best thing to do is actually to get healthy and the power has always, for most people, resided squarely in their hands. Healthful living is the ticket. Eat properly, workout, don't be an alcoholic, don't be a dumbass. Prevention trumps cure for most people at most points in their lives.

So eating healthy and exercising will get rid of my allergies, back and neck problems, and stomach problems that make me uninsurable or my wife's PCOS which makes her uninsurable?

The ignorance in such absurdity is ASTOUNDING!

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Insurance is a inherently corrupted scam. It's capitalized socialism, and it simply can't be done fairly. Get rid of all insurance absolutely, and then fix the real issues in each area (healthcare, liability, disaster, etc).

100% socialized, or 100% individual responsibility. Either is better than any kind of insurance.

Actually let health insurance be health insurance and not a health care plans and things will become much more affordable.

Even if it became affordable, it's still capitalized socialism. People who use little or no benefits end up paying for those that use a lot.

Actually everyone benefits, actual health insurance is inexpensive as it only covers major events, not every cough and cold. That alone would remove the insurance middle out of many of the normal inexpensive health care transactions.

 

[sandorski]

This is like asking if Slavery is Bad. How much Evidence needs to be shown to people before they just accept the Logical answer?

Yes. You will have UHC/Insurance. 20-30 years afterwards only a few Nutters will still think it was a Bad Idea. Just do it already, the Big 3, in part, were hurt because of the lack of UHC.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: sandorski
This is like asking if Slavery is Bad. How much Evidence needs to be shown to people before they just accept the Logical answer?

Yes. You will have UHC/Insurance. 20-30 years afterwards only a few Nutters will still think it was a Bad Idea. Just do it already, the Big 3, in part, were hurt because of the lack of UHC.

Nope in 20-30 years when I am on a waiting list for a doctor visit I will remember the good old days of having insurance. That is if this country can survive a bankruptcy that UHC will cause. Since we have no way to pay for it. Those evil rich people don't have enough money. The poor won't pay a dime unless you want to kill off the middle class to pay for it.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: sandorski
This is like asking if Slavery is Bad. How much Evidence needs to be shown to people before they just accept the Logical answer?

Yes. You will have UHC/Insurance. 20-30 years afterwards only a few Nutters will still think it was a Bad Idea. Just do it already, the Big 3, in part, were hurt because of the lack of UHC.

Nope in 20-30 years when I am on a waiting list for a doctor visit I remember the good old days of having insurance. That is if this country can survive a bankruptcy that UHC will cause. Since we have no way to pay for it. Those evil rich people don't have enough money. The poor won't pay a dime unless you want to kill off the middle class to pay for it.

You consistently Fail. :thumbsup:

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I don't know anymore. I do know this, though. If you're worried about your health, the best thing to do is actually to get healthy and the power has always, for most people, resided squarely in their hands. Healthful living is the ticket. Eat properly, workout, don't be an alcoholic, don't be a dumbass. Prevention trumps cure for most people at most points in their lives.

So eating healthy and exercising will get rid of my allergies, back and neck problems, and stomach problems that make me uninsurable or my wife's PCOS which makes her uninsurable?

The ignorance in such absurdity is ASTOUNDING!

Thank you for taking the reading comprehension test. Unfortunately your grade is an F. You can retake it as many times as you like, however!

 

[bozack]

No, just look at how wonderfully it is working out in MA...

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Nope in 20-30 years when I am on a waiting list for a doctor visit I will remember the good old days of having insurance. That is if this country can survive a bankruptcy that UHC will cause. Since we have no way to pay for it. Those evil rich people don't have enough money. The poor won't pay a dime unless you want to kill off the middle class to pay for it.

Amazing that every other major industrialized country on the planet can manage to pull off UHC, but you think that the most powerful nation in the history of the planet can't do it.

 

[Slew Foot]

Without having read the rest of the thread, isnt mandatory insurance what they did in MA? And as a result, insurance premiums skyrocketed since the insurance companies knew people had to buy it?

 

[Socio]

The claimed need for UHC is BS! It is being sought for the wrong reasons and at a time when we absolutely cannot afford it.

The two major factors for raising health care costs are;

A, Malpractice insurance (doctors need to be held accountable for their actions like everyone else but certainly some kind of reform to drive down the cost of the insurance can be done.)

B, Staggering cost of health care for illegal immigrants;

Illegal Immigration and Public Health

As a result, the costs of medical care for immigrants are staggering. The estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care in 2004 in California was about $1.4 billion per year. In Texas, the estimated cost was about $.85 billion, and in Arizona the comparable estimate was $.4 billion per year.8

One of the frequent costs to U.S. taxpayers is delivery of babies to illegal alien mothers. A California study put the number of these anchor baby deliveries in the state in 1994 at 74,987, at a cost of $215 million. At that time, those births constituted 36 percent of all Medi-Cal births, and they have grown now to substantially more than half or the annual Medi-Cal budget. In 2003, 70 percent of the 2,300 babies born in San Joaquin General Hospital?s maternity ward were anchor babies. Medical in 2003 had 760,000 illegal alien beneficiaries, up from 2002, when there were

Examples;

Project Immigration: Illegal Immigrant Healthcare

In a nut shell; the health care system has two broken legs, instead of Obama wanting to set the legs and allow them to heal he wants to inject it with a special morphine derivative called UHC to just mask the pain of the two legs. Thus even with this UHC injection the health care system will remain crippled and UHC will end up one being a gigantic waste of tax payer money at a time we cannot afford to waste a penny.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Without having read the rest of the thread, isnt mandatory insurance what they did in MA? And as a result, insurance premiums skyrocketed since the insurance companies knew people had to buy it?

Yep. Nobody could have predicted that could happen!

Just cap medical expenses per person at 10k per year or so.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Amazing that every other major industrialized country on the planet can manage to pull off UHC, but you think that the most powerful nation in the history of the planet can't do it.

And just look at the "quality" of care one gets in those nations from the "free" service...it is so great that people still have to buy premire healthcare to get anything done....

 

[Malfeas]

Frontline: Sick around the World

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Amazing that every other major industrialized country on the planet can manage to pull off UHC, but you think that the most powerful nation in the history of the planet can't do it.

And just look at the "quality" of care one gets in those nations from the "free" service...it is so great that people still have to buy premire healthcare to get anything done....

BS

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Amazing that every other major industrialized country on the planet can manage to pull off UHC, but you think that the most powerful nation in the history of the planet can't do it.

And just look at the "quality" of care one gets in those nations from the "free" service...it is so great that people still have to buy premire healthcare to get anything done....

Yeap, such poor quality that large numbers of these nations with similar demographics have significantly superior health outcomes to the US despite spending small fractions of what we do, as has been shown here over and over and over again. Someday you will face the simple reality that their systems are far superior to ours.

 

[Zebo]

We need to copy to the tee countries where it works e.g. Taiwan

But I have no doubt Americans will screw it up royally due to way our political system is.

They will throw you a bone but make no mistake it will end in a cluster fuck of high expense and low treatment and the top 1% won't be able to carry their checks to the bank, need a fork lift.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: Socio
The claimed need for UHC is BS! It is being sought for the wrong reasons and at a time when we absolutely cannot afford it.

The two major factors for raising health care costs are;

A, Malpractice insurance (doctors need to be held accountable for their actions like everyone else but certainly some kind of reform to drive down the cost of the insurance can be done.)

B, Staggering cost of health care for illegal immigrants;

Illegal Immigration and Public Health

As a result, the costs of medical care for immigrants are staggering. The estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care in 2004 in California was about $1.4 billion per year. In Texas, the estimated cost was about $.85 billion, and in Arizona the comparable estimate was $.4 billion per year.8

One of the frequent costs to U.S. taxpayers is delivery of babies to illegal alien mothers. A California study put the number of these anchor baby deliveries in the state in 1994 at 74,987, at a cost of $215 million. At that time, those births constituted 36 percent of all Medi-Cal births, and they have grown now to substantially more than half or the annual Medi-Cal budget. In 2003, 70 percent of the 2,300 babies born in San Joaquin General Hospital?s maternity ward were anchor babies. Medical in 2003 had 760,000 illegal alien beneficiaries, up from 2002, when there were

Examples;

Project Immigration: Illegal Immigrant Healthcare

In a nut shell; the health care system has two broken legs, instead of Obama wanting to set the legs and allow them to heal he wants to inject it with a special morphine derivative called UHC to just mask the pain of the two legs. Thus even with this UHC injection the health care system will remain crippled and UHC will end up one being a gigantic waste of tax payer money at a time we cannot afford to waste a penny.

+1 I am still waiting to hear these examples of other countrys with UHC that have 10s of millions of illegals to suck the system dry.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Socio
The claimed need for UHC is BS! It is being sought for the wrong reasons and at a time when we absolutely cannot afford it.

The two major factors for raising health care costs are;

A, Malpractice insurance (doctors need to be held accountable for their actions like everyone else but certainly some kind of reform to drive down the cost of the insurance can be done.)

B, Staggering cost of health care for illegal immigrants;

Illegal Immigration and Public Health

As a result, the costs of medical care for immigrants are staggering. The estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care in 2004 in California was about $1.4 billion per year. In Texas, the estimated cost was about $.85 billion, and in Arizona the comparable estimate was $.4 billion per year.8

One of the frequent costs to U.S. taxpayers is delivery of babies to illegal alien mothers. A California study put the number of these anchor baby deliveries in the state in 1994 at 74,987, at a cost of $215 million. At that time, those births constituted 36 percent of all Medi-Cal births, and they have grown now to substantially more than half or the annual Medi-Cal budget. In 2003, 70 percent of the 2,300 babies born in San Joaquin General Hospital?s maternity ward were anchor babies. Medical in 2003 had 760,000 illegal alien beneficiaries, up from 2002, when there were

Examples;

Project Immigration: Illegal Immigrant Healthcare

In a nut shell; the health care system has two broken legs, instead of Obama wanting to set the legs and allow them to heal he wants to inject it with a special morphine derivative called UHC to just mask the pain of the two legs. Thus even with this UHC injection the health care system will remain crippled and UHC will end up one being a gigantic waste of tax payer money at a time we cannot afford to waste a penny.

+1 I am still waiting to hear these examples of other countrys with UHC that have 10s of millions of illegals to suck the system dry.

He's wrong on both points, very wrong.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Socio
The claimed need for UHC is BS! It is being sought for the wrong reasons and at a time when we absolutely cannot afford it.

The two major factors for raising health care costs are;

A, Malpractice insurance (doctors need to be held accountable for their actions like everyone else but certainly some kind of reform to drive down the cost of the insurance can be done.)

B, Staggering cost of health care for illegal immigrants;

Illegal Immigration and Public Health

As a result, the costs of medical care for immigrants are staggering. The estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care in 2004 in California was about $1.4 billion per year. In Texas, the estimated cost was about $.85 billion, and in Arizona the comparable estimate was $.4 billion per year.8

One of the frequent costs to U.S. taxpayers is delivery of babies to illegal alien mothers. A California study put the number of these anchor baby deliveries in the state in 1994 at 74,987, at a cost of $215 million. At that time, those births constituted 36 percent of all Medi-Cal births, and they have grown now to substantially more than half or the annual Medi-Cal budget. In 2003, 70 percent of the 2,300 babies born in San Joaquin General Hospital?s maternity ward were anchor babies. Medical in 2003 had 760,000 illegal alien beneficiaries, up from 2002, when there were

Examples;

Project Immigration: Illegal Immigrant Healthcare

In a nut shell; the health care system has two broken legs, instead of Obama wanting to set the legs and allow them to heal he wants to inject it with a special morphine derivative called UHC to just mask the pain of the two legs. Thus even with this UHC injection the health care system will remain crippled and UHC will end up one being a gigantic waste of tax payer money at a time we cannot afford to waste a penny.

+1 I am still waiting to hear these examples of other countrys with UHC that have 10s of millions of illegals to suck the system dry.

So the unreimbursed health care costs for the three states with the largest illegal immigrant populations is a staggering $3 billion or so. We spend more than $2 TRILLION annually on health care. As has been repeated to you many times in the past, backed up by studies, illegal immigrants consume less than TWO PERCENT of national health care spending.

Wow talk about a crippling problem, huh?

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Socio
The claimed need for UHC is BS! It is being sought for the wrong reasons and at a time when we absolutely cannot afford it.

The two major factors for raising health care costs are;

A, Malpractice insurance (doctors need to be held accountable for their actions like everyone else but certainly some kind of reform to drive down the cost of the insurance can be done.)

B, Staggering cost of health care for illegal immigrants;

Illegal Immigration and Public Health

As a result, the costs of medical care for immigrants are staggering. The estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care in 2004 in California was about $1.4 billion per year. In Texas, the estimated cost was about $.85 billion, and in Arizona the comparable estimate was $.4 billion per year.8

One of the frequent costs to U.S. taxpayers is delivery of babies to illegal alien mothers. A California study put the number of these anchor baby deliveries in the state in 1994 at 74,987, at a cost of $215 million. At that time, those births constituted 36 percent of all Medi-Cal births, and they have grown now to substantially more than half or the annual Medi-Cal budget. In 2003, 70 percent of the 2,300 babies born in San Joaquin General Hospital?s maternity ward were anchor babies. Medical in 2003 had 760,000 illegal alien beneficiaries, up from 2002, when there were

Examples;

Project Immigration: Illegal Immigrant Healthcare

In a nut shell; the health care system has two broken legs, instead of Obama wanting to set the legs and allow them to heal he wants to inject it with a special morphine derivative called UHC to just mask the pain of the two legs. Thus even with this UHC injection the health care system will remain crippled and UHC will end up one being a gigantic waste of tax payer money at a time we cannot afford to waste a penny.

+1 I am still waiting to hear these examples of other countrys with UHC that have 10s of millions of illegals to suck the system dry.

So the unreimbursed health care costs for the three states with the largest illegal immigrant populations is a staggering $3 billion or so. We spend more than $2 TRILLION annually on health care. As has been repeated to you many times in the past, backed up by studies, illegal immigrants consume less than TWO PERCENT of national health care spending.

Wow talk about a crippling problem, huh?

2% of 2 trillion dollars is a shit load of money. That is the problem with people today it is only such such a percent. That and that number will skyrocket once UHC is out there and they can get free expensive treatment. You are just begging millions of seriously sick people crossing the boarder for billions in free treatments.

Any UHC should be contingent on securing the boarder and denying anything but emergency to illegals. Then once they get that send them back to were they came from.

UHC will not work in this country the goverment can't do anything right. They have screwed up everything they have been in charge of.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: quest55720

2% of 2 trillion dollars is a shit load of money. That is the problem with people today it is only such such a percent. That and that number will skyrocket once UHC is out there and they can get free expensive treatment. You are just begging millions of seriously sick people crossing the boarder for billions in free treatments.

Any UHC should be contingent on securing the boarder and denying anything but emergency to illegals. Then once they get that send them back to were they came from.

UHC will not work in this country the goverment can't do anything right. They have screwed up everything they have been in charge of.

And how are they getting these free treatments? How is it any different than now? People can already come across for free emergency treatment, and yet they aren't overloading the system.

Are you saying that you think illegal immigrants are going to cross the border for a free mammogram or something? Why on earth do you think our system would work like that? Face it, the ability of people to come here for free treatment already exists, and it hasn't resulted in the dire consequences you claim it would. You probably didn't know just how little of our yearly medical expenditures are consumed by illegal immigrants, but now that you know, just admit you were wrong.

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: Malfeas
Frontline: Sick around the World

This website has fantastic info, thanks for the link.