United States is a hypocrite

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: oLLie

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: oLLie

Did you answer my first question? Because if you did, I didn't see it in your post.
🙂

No, I didn't directly, and I apologize. I think they will have the means eventually, if we offer our support and let them develop the backbone themselves. Us doing it for them will not solve the problem.

Do you remember the anti-Saddam factions during the Persian Gulf war? Do you know where they are now? That's right, shallow graves. Actually it's probably more like their whole family and everyone they knew. If you want my opinion... passive support won't achieve sh!t (pardon my French). I do however think we need to put things on hold for right now and just see where everything is going... let the inspectors back in, see what they find, go from there.

Do you think it's any different under any other dictator?

It's their issue, let them handle it! It sounds cruel, and it sounds rough - damn straight, it is. Do you think the current generation of Americans would act differently if they had to qualify for citizenship? Earn the rights that are so frequently touted by the youth on this board?

We have no right to act on behalf of or in the stead of the United Nations. It's like the teacher's pet in school saying "teach, you aren't doing what I want you to, I'm gonna take over." We are not on the same level as the United Nations.

What we are doing now qualifies as an act of war, an aggressive, unwarranted action. I honestly fear for the safety of our nation after this.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: JellyBaby

Originally posted by: dwell

Originally posted by: nachiketa1
food for thought

Please pick up your tin foil hat at the nearest receptacle.

That site is whacked and someone sure has a bone to pick but the links may have some value. Check out War Diary: Friday, Oct. 11, 2002 to learn more of the behind-the-scenes political games doing on to promote the Iraq conquest.

Iraq-After 11-12 years of failed policy, it is time to clean house.

charrison, check my current signature. You seem to be in favor of adding a few more states to the union. Does what the U.S. is doing and proposing in the Mid East ever strike you as patently wrong?

Yes the good old Empire of the USA. We have a handful of territories around the world and we make no effort to make them states. We are not even making an effort to add territories. We could make afganistan a territory, but we have not even done that. I have seen no information that we will make Iraq a territory and that is a country who we would be very interested in resource wise. Cleaning the the Iraq mess is not patently wrong. We should have ignored the UN 11 years ago.

 

[JoeBaD]

zakath,

you ain't got anything between your legs now do ya?

the US is the greatest nation on the Earth. we are the only nation that consistently stands up for the downtrodden and stands up to the bullies. we wil stand up to Iraq and we will stand up against future others because the other puusies in the world like you will not. if not for the US, this world would be a sesspool.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: oLLie

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: oLLie

Did you answer my first question? Because if you did, I didn't see it in your post.
🙂

No, I didn't directly, and I apologize. I think they will have the means eventually, if we offer our support and let them develop the backbone themselves. Us doing it for them will not solve the problem.

Do you remember the anti-Saddam factions during the Persian Gulf war? Do you know where they are now? That's right, shallow graves. Actually it's probably more like their whole family and everyone they knew. If you want my opinion... passive support won't achieve sh!t (pardon my French). I do however think we need to put things on hold for right now and just see where everything is going... let the inspectors back in, see what they find, go from there.

Do you think it's any different under any other dictator?

It's their issue, let them handle it! It sounds cruel, and it sounds rough - damn straight, it is. Do you think the current generation of Americans would act differently if they had to qualify for citizenship? Earn the rights that are so frequently touted by the youth on this board?

We have no right to act on behalf of or in the stead of the United Nations. It's like the teacher's pet in school saying "teach, you aren't doing what I want you to, I'm gonna take over." We are not on the same level as the United Nations.

What we are doing now qualifies as an act of war, an aggressive, unwarranted action. I honestly fear for the safety of our nation after this.

You are assuming the UN always acts justly and correctly.

If you are in class and teacher is telling everyone 2+2=3. Do you speak up or just accept 3 being the correct answer?

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: oLLie

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: oLLie

Did you answer my first question? Because if you did, I didn't see it in your post.
🙂

No, I didn't directly, and I apologize. I think they will have the means eventually, if we offer our support and let them develop the backbone themselves. Us doing it for them will not solve the problem.

Do you remember the anti-Saddam factions during the Persian Gulf war? Do you know where they are now? That's right, shallow graves. Actually it's probably more like their whole family and everyone they knew. If you want my opinion... passive support won't achieve sh!t (pardon my French). I do however think we need to put things on hold for right now and just see where everything is going... let the inspectors back in, see what they find, go from there.

Do you think it's any different under any other dictator?

It's their issue, let them handle it! It sounds cruel, and it sounds rough - damn straight, it is. Do you think the current generation of Americans would act differently if they had to qualify for citizenship? Earn the rights that are so frequently touted by the youth on this board?

We have no right to act on behalf of or in the stead of the United Nations. It's like the teacher's pet in school saying "teach, you aren't doing what I want you to, I'm gonna take over." We are not on the same level as the United Nations.

What we are doing now qualifies as an act of war, an aggressive, unwarranted action. I honestly fear for the safety of our nation after this.

So your position is not to interfere in any other country business as long as they don't interfere with the US (in the pretense of preventing loss of US's life in an armed conflict) ?

 

[JellyBaby]

We have no right to act on behalf of or in the stead of the United Nations.

Well after decades of government intrusion into our lives most Americans feel it's up to the government, specifically the federal one from which all Knowledge flows, to handle ALL problems. Not only on the homefront but abroad. And government is all too happy to oblidge.

On the foreign policy side, few understand how the rest of the world views us, how we're making enemies left and right, how the constitution is abused more each passing year, how we're slowly but definitively giving up our rights and how costly all of this really is.

charrison, so basically as long as we hold the big stick and can throw down on the neighbor punks, we ought to do as we damn well please? Better us than them? If we don't do it, they will right? Sovereignty be damned......someday even ours? Nothing personal, just trying to get a feel for how you arrive at your decisions of what's right and wrong.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: JellyBaby

charrison, so basically as long as we hold the big stick and can throw down on the neighbor punks, we ought to do as we damn well please? Better us than them? If we don't do it, they will right? Sovereignty be damned......someday even ours? Nothing personal, just
trying to get a feel for how you arrive at your decisions of what's right and wrong.

Yes we have a big stick. Yes we should only use the stick when the cause is just and conversly we should not use the stick when the cause is unjust. Our sovereignty is more important that the sovereignty of any other country and they also feel their sovereignty is more important than ours.

The only thing we disagree on, is if Iraq is a threat to our population. I believe they are, you beleive they are not.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: rufruf44

So your position is not to interfere in any other country business as long as they don't interfere with the US (in the pretense of preventing loss of US's life in an armed conflict) ?

The only thing we're doing in this case is throwing US lives away.

Saddam is not a threat to the US; he's far more dangerous to his neighbors than us. They're sovereign nations; they're big boys, they can handle themselves.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: JoeBaD
zakath,

you ain't got anything between your legs now do ya?

the US is the greatest nation on the Earth. we are the only nation that consistently stands up for the downtrodden and stands up to the bullies. we wil stand up to Iraq and we will stand up against future others because the other puusies in the world like you will not. if not for the US, this world would be a sesspool.

My god, get over yourself. Do you know anything about the world around you?

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: charrison

You are assuming the UN always acts justly and correctly.

If you are in class and teacher is telling everyone 2+2=3. Do you speak up or just accept 3 being the correct answer?

You're also assuming the US always acts justly and correctly.

If the student corrects the teacher, she does it respectfully and with deference, not by shoving the teacher to the side. If the US dissents with the actions of the UN, let the US protest within the proper UN channels; that's why the UN was created and that's why the US is a member.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: rufruf44

So your position is not to interfere in any other country business as long as they don't interfere with the US (in the pretense of preventing loss of US's life in an armed conflict) ?

The only thing we're doing in this case is throwing US lives away.

Saddam is not a threat to the US; he's far more dangerous to his neighbors than us. They're sovereign nations; they're big boys, they can handle themselves.

Ok, by your logic.

We need pull all our troops out of middle east because we dont wait to waste a single US life. Since troops are dying over in the middle east currently(accidents and stuff) it is not worth.

He is dangerous to his neighbors.

Since he is dangerous to his neighbors, it is likely he will overtake the middle east after we pull out.

Now we have a bigger problem.

 

[FettsBabe]

Iraq violated an agreement they said they would honor. If we are hypocrites then what are they???????? :disgust:

Saddam is not a threat to the US; he's far more dangerous to his neighbors than us.

You are absolutely right. Ex. Invasion of Kuwait.

However, everything that happens in the Middle East still affects the US. Therefore, we do have a right to say (and sometimes) do something.

Quite frankly, I am tired of countries harboring terrorists. I'm tired of Israel being fired at. I'm tired of the fights in Pakistan. It has to stop somewhere and it needs to be now. 😎

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: charrison

You are assuming the UN always acts justly and correctly.

If you are in class and teacher is telling everyone 2+2=3. Do you speak up or just accept 3 being the correct answer?

You're also assuming the US always acts justly and correctly.

If the student corrects the teacher, she does it respectfully and with deference, not by shoving the teacher to the side. If the US dissents with the actions of the UN, let the US protest within the proper UN channels; that's why the UN was created and that's why the US is a member.

And we have protested via proper channels. And when the UN tells us that 2+2=3 again, we will ignore them and walk out of class.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: charrison

Ok, by your logic.

We need pull all our troops out of middle east because we dont wait to waste a single US life. Since troops are dying over in the middle east currently(accidents and stuff) it is not worth.

He is dangerous to his neighbors.

Since he is dangerous to his neighbors, it is likely he will overtake the middle east after we pull out.

Now we have a bigger problem.

Since he is dangerous to his neighbors, they will deal with him in their own time, in their own manner. It's their prerogative and their issue. Why are we focusing on the problems of other sovereign nations when we don't even have our own domestic issues handled?

Does anyone wonder why we're spending $325 billion in defense, $65 billion for education in 2002?

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: charrison
[
And we have protested via proper channels. And when the UN tells us that 2+2=3 again, we will ignore them and walk out of class.

And you walk up, shove the teacher aside and show the rest of the class "how it's done." Except when you do, you create more problems in the process. And you violate the agreement all of you made when you agreed to take the class.

Why not take responsibility for your own learning and let the rest of the class figure it out for themselves?

 

[sinunbeso]

Canada forever.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: FettsBabe
Iraq violated an agreement they said they would honor. If we are hypocrites then what are they???????? :disgust:

Saddam is not a threat to the US; he's far more dangerous to his neighbors than us.

You are absolutely right. Ex. Invasion of Kuwait.

However, everything that happens in the Middle East still affects the US. Therefore, we do have a right to say (and sometimes) do something.

Quite frankly, I am tired of countries harboring terrorists. I'm tired of Israel being fired at. I'm tired of the fights in Pakistan. It has to stop somewhere and it needs to be now. 😎

Except for the fact that Israel has no historical justification to their land? If China handed over Washington state to the Native Americans and said, "rebuild your people here", do you think they would live peacefully? When they started uprooting, terrorizing and discriminating against the people who already lived there?

You're sick of countries harboring terrorists - have you ever stopped to ask why terrorists exist in the first place? Why they hate the US so much?

 

[FettsBabe]

Since he is dangerous to his neighbors, they will deal with him in their own time, in their own manner. It's their prerogative and their issue. Why are we focusing on the problems of other sovereign nations when we don't even have our own domestic issues handled?

Wasn't this the attitude when Hitler started????? Were those countries able to take care of him? Wonder how many lives we could have saved if the US would have stepped up then? Remember Pearl Harbor????



:disgust:

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: sinunbeso
Canada forever.

lol

Canada's cool. If I ever get sick of the US, I'm moving up there with y'all.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: charrison

Ok, by your logic.

We need pull all our troops out of middle east because we dont wait to waste a single US life. Since troops are dying over in the middle east currently(accidents and stuff) it is not worth.

He is dangerous to his neighbors.

Since he is dangerous to his neighbors, it is likely he will overtake the middle east after we pull out.

Now we have a bigger problem.

Since he is dangerous to his neighbors, they will deal with him in their own time, in their own manner. It's their prerogative and their issue. Why are we focusing on the problems of other sovereign nations when we don't even have our own domestic issues handled?

Does anyone wonder why we're spending $325 billion in defense, $65 billion for education in 2002?

Because education is funded 95% or better by the local community.

Maybe we should let the mideast contries deal with Iraq, like europe dealt with Germany pre WWII?

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: FettsBabe

Since he is dangerous to his neighbors, they will deal with him in their own time, in their own manner. It's their prerogative and their issue. Why are we focusing on the problems of other sovereign nations when we don't even have our own domestic issues handled?

Wasn't this the attitude when Hitler started????? Were those countries able to take care of him? Wonder how many lives we could have saved if the US would have stepped up then? Remember Pearl Harbor????

Of course I remember Pearl Harbor. If you're somehow equating my attitude as that of those who let Pearl Harbor happen, I beg to differ.

There is a difference here, in that at Pearl Harbor, we were attacked on our own soil. There was an immediate threat to our national well-being. With Saddam, there is no immediate threat.

How does Saddam compare to Hitler?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: charrison
[
And we have protested via proper channels. And when the UN tells us that 2+2=3 again, we will ignore them and walk out of class.

And you walk up, shove the teacher aside and show the rest of the class "how it's done." Except when you do, you create more problems in the process. And you violate the agreement all of you made when you agreed to take the class.

Why not take responsibility for your own learning and let the rest of the class figure it out for themselves?

Except you are holding to teacher up without violation, when the teacher was first in violation. Being in the minority and being right are not mutually exclusive.

 

[FettsBabe]

No one really has complete historical ties to their land...unless you want to count the dinosaurs and cavemen! 😉

If we got into a huge debate about giving the land back to "whom it belongs" no one would have land (blacks, white, indians, israeli's, pakastani's, etc)!

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: charrison

Because education is funded 95% or better by the local community.

Maybe we should let the mideast contries deal with Iraq, like europe dealt with Germany pre WWII?

Convince me Saddam is the same, on any level, as Hitler before you start equating the two situations.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: FettsBabe

Since he is dangerous to his neighbors, they will deal with him in their own time, in their own manner. It's their prerogative and their issue. Why are we focusing on the problems of other sovereign nations when we don't even have our own domestic issues handled?

Wasn't this the attitude when Hitler started????? Were those countries able to take care of him? Wonder how many lives we could have saved if the US would have stepped up then? Remember Pearl Harbor????

Of course I remember Pearl Harbor. If you're somehow equating my attitude as that of those who let Pearl Harbor happen, I beg to differ.

There is a difference here, in that at Pearl Harbor, we were attacked on our own soil. There was an immediate threat to our national well-being. With Saddam, there is no immediate threat.

How does Saddam compare to Hitler?

After WWI Germay was a weak defeated country with heavy fines to pay, sanctions had been put on Germany and they were limited in the military they could build.

After the gulf war Iraq was a weak defeated country with heavy fines to pay, sanctions had been put on Iraq and they were limited in the military they could build.