Underwater gardens

[adlep]

Gardens

All of them look like freshwater setups. I have never owned an aquarium before - so can anyone shine some light in regards to how difficult it would be to create a similar setup?

 

[Leros]

If you like that. Look up Takashi Amano. He's the best.

Growing plants is fairly simple. All you need is C02, good soil and lots of light. We're not talking cheap equipment btw. The difficult part is making it look like nice and maintaining it. Its a lot of work having a nice tank like that.

 

[CRXican]

so awesome

I want one

 

[coldmeat]

Wouldn't it be a bitch to clean? Or does all the plant life clean it for you?

 

[BoomerD]

I've only done a couple of freshwater planted aquariums. They can be pretty labor intensive, depending on the exact set up.

You are VERY limited as to how many/what kind/how large of fish you can have. (high nutrient load creates nuisance algaes and problems.)

You'll probably need to use water treated by reverse osmosis and probably also deionization to remove the methyl-ethyl bad stuff in the tap water...then, add certain trace elements and minerals back into the water for the plants.

Be ready for your electric bills go go through the roof. MOST planted tanks use metal halide lighting, 250 watts, 2 x 250 watts, and even 400 watt set ups aren't uncommon. (the types of plants you want will determine the amount of lighting necessary.

Some people manage to keep less-light demanding plants with compact fluorescent lighting in the proper spectrum. I never liked the power compacts, and instead, I used VHO fluorescents over my planted tanks. (4 x 110 watts)

These tanks can be as demanding as salt-water reef tanks...but like reef tanks, they're gorgeous.

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I've only done a couple of freshwater planted aquariums. They can be pretty labor intensive, depending on the exact set up.

You are VERY limited as to how many/what kind/how large of fish you can have. (high nutrient load creates nuisance algaes and problems.)

You'll probably need to use water treated by reverse osmosis and probably also deionization to remove the methyl-ethyl bad stuff in the tap water...then, add certain trace elements and minerals back into the water for the plants.

Be ready for your electric bills go go through the roof. MOST planted tanks use metal halide lighting, 250 watts, 2 x 250 watts, and even 400 watt set ups aren't uncommon. (the types of plants you want will determine the amount of lighting necessary.

Some people manage to keep less-light demanding plants with compact fluorescent lighting in the proper spectrum. I never liked the power compacts, and instead, I used VHO fluorescents over my planted tanks. (4 x 110 watts)

These tanks can be as demanding as salt-water reef tanks...but like reef tanks, they're gorgeous.

I only got into reef tanks for a few years with a smaller 55g tank and 20g high tank, but I found reefs to actually be easier to maintain than freshwater planted. Freshwater planted is much cheaper and arguably more visually appealing.

 

[Yreka]

Wow, those are gorgeous.

 

[her209]

I only counted two from non-South East Asian countries. What's up with that?

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: Yreka
Wow, those are gorgeous.

seriously

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Some people manage to keep less-light demanding plants with compact fluorescent lighting in the proper spectrum. I never liked the power compacts, and instead, I used VHO fluorescents over my planted tanks. (4 x 110 watts)

Ice cap ballast?

 

[djheater]

Alright, I wasn't going to post but I'll go ahead and open myself up to the crazy criticism aquariasts have for goldfish owners.

I've got a 20 gallon tank with 2 goldfish and an algae eater that has been humming along for over a year with now problems. Everyone is happy and healthy though the algae eater is a territorial ass and likes to harass the goldies.

Will post pics.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: djheater
Alright, I wasn't going to post but I'll go ahead and open myself up to the crazy criticism aquariasts have for goldfish owners.

I've got a 20 gallon tank with 2 goldfish and an algae eater that has been humming along for over a year with now problems. Everyone is happy and healthy though the algae eater is a territorial ass and likes to harass the goldies.

Will post pics.

Its one of those Chinese Algae Eaters, isn't it?

 

[MikeMike]

WTF is so special about the 250W MH's on that site? 1100 for a 250W metal halide with specialized reflector is fucking insane...

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
WTF is so special about the 250W MH's on that site? 1100 for a 250W metal halide with specialized reflector is fucking insane...

Yes they are much cheaper in the back of High Times mag but the bulbs aren't the best. 4300K Ventures are just south of a C note. A 400W magnetic Advance or Magnetek MH ballast is about $75, wire and mogul socket another few bucks. You can use a metal flower pot for a reflector and bam you have a nice HID system for a fraction of that price!

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Some people manage to keep less-light demanding plants with compact fluorescent lighting in the proper spectrum. I never liked the power compacts, and instead, I used VHO fluorescents over my planted tanks. (4 x 110 watts)

Ice cap ballast?

You betcha. One 90 gallon reef tank had 6x110 watt VHO's. needed 2 IceCap ballasts for that one.

(since I got out of the hobby, my electric bill dropped by over 50%)

 

[trmiv]

I've been tempted to try a freshwater planted, never done it. Before I got into reefs I had african cichlids, but once I got into reefs I haven't had a freshwater tank since. I love the way the planted tanks look though, sometimes more than my reef.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
WTF is so special about the 250W MH's on that site? 1100 for a 250W metal halide with specialized reflector is fucking insane...

Yes they are much cheaper in the back of High Times mag but the bulbs aren't the best. 4300K Ventures are just south of a C note. A 400W magnetic Advance or Magnetek MH ballast is about $75, wire and mogul socket another few bucks. You can use a metal flower pot for a reflector and bam you have a nice HID system for a fraction of that price!

I did a lot of my lighting supply business with these folks:

http://www.hellolights.com/

http://www.marinedepot.com/PFO_Lighting-PF-vd.html

I preferred the PFO ballasts, whether electronic or tar ballast.
(even though usually, the internal components are the same as most other manufacturers)
They did a quality job in the build, very "user friendly" in design.

There are some "not so expensive" alternatives on the web, especially ebay, but you really gotta watch what you buy. With lighting, especially metal halides, you get what you pay for.
(there's one cheapo Chinese-made brand that's notorious for starting fires) :shocked:

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
WTF is so special about the 250W MH's on that site? 1100 for a 250W metal halide with specialized reflector is fucking insane...

Yes they are much cheaper in the back of High Times mag but the bulbs aren't the best. 4300K Ventures are just south of a C note. A 400W magnetic Advance or Magnetek MH ballast is about $75, wire and mogul socket another few bucks. You can use a metal flower pot for a reflector and bam you have a nice HID system for a fraction of that price!

do these put out more lumens, or a better spectrum? I know there are differences in build quality, and construction, but i just found a 2x price difference to be insane... though i wonder how CMH bulbs would work on these gardens...

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

I did a lot of my lighting supply business with these folks:

http://www.hellolights.com/

http://www.marinedepot.com/PFO_Lighting-PF-vd.html

I preferred the PFO ballasts, whether electronic or tar ballast.
(even though usually, the internal components are the same as most other manufacturers)
They did a quality job in the build, very "user friendly" in design.

There are some "not so expensive" alternatives on the web, especially ebay, but you really gotta watch what you buy. With lighting, especially metal halides, you get what you pay for.
(there's one cheapo Chinese-made brand that's notorious for starting fires) :shocked:

A friend of mine who kept sharks in medium to larger tanks (15K gallon circular tanks) used high pressure Xenon lighting that's super brilliant white light that was crazy powerful. He built his own ballasts (he called them drivers) using RF amplifiers The larger lamps were 30kW. He had scaled designs using a klystron that could drive over 200kW but never needed that much light. :shocked:

He also experimented with 2.4GHz microwave rotary globe lamps but was not satisfied with their (lack of) blue output which always had to be supplemented with mercury arc and was peaky.

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

do these put out more lumens, or a better spectrum? I know there are differences in build quality, and construction, but i just found a 2x price difference to be insane... though i wonder how CMH bulbs would work on these gardens...

There's so many different types of bulbs these days. The cheaper eye (Iwasaki) ones tend to be quite green. Reef bulbs at 20K are quite blue and lack efficacy compared to the 5500K bulbs which look quite similar to afternoon daylight. Do remember that a reef in real life (or a BIG tank hehe!) at 20 meters is going to quite filtered and the light will have a bluer cast. Twice the number of 20K bulbs would be needed or stepping up to 400W bulbs would probably be better.

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: djheater
Alright, I wasn't going to post but I'll go ahead and open myself up to the crazy criticism aquariasts have for goldfish owners.

I've got a 20 gallon tank with 2 goldfish and an algae eater that has been humming along for over a year with now problems. Everyone is happy and healthy though the algae eater is a territorial ass and likes to harass the goldies.

Will post pics.

Its one of those Chinese Algae Eaters, isn't it?

Yeah, and he does a great job.
I just tried a pic on my blackberry and it turned out crappily.

There's Java Fern, Cryptocorynes, Anubias and a some sword on top of flourite substrate and the crazy neon gravel my 4 year old picked out (it was a present for her birthday). There used to be a few others but the Goldfish felt they were too tasty to pass by. They have a love hate relationship with java Moss. They'll let it build up to a certain point then pick it to pieces and it starts all over again.

The goldfish are a red cap oranda and a calico fantail, there's an Chinese algae eater and a volunteer snail population that came in with a plant. I thin the snails out occasionally.

I clean and cycle 1/4 water once every 1-2 weeks. It's on a cheap biowheel filter and that gets changed once a month or so. The light was an upgrade to my existing hood with a 35 watt ballast, hyper-polished reflector and better spectrum flourescent.
I did a lot of poking around freshwater tank forums to find a lot of info about the plants and lighting. If you look for low-maintenance it can be found.

Ideally I'd like to move the goldfish out to a 50 at some point and preserve the twenty as a freshwater shimp\clam tank. Don't know if I'll get to it. Have to move them up when they're bigger though :/

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
A friend of mine who kept sharks in medium to larger tanks (15K gallon circular tanks) used high pressure Xenon lighting that's super brilliant white light that was crazy powerful. He built his own ballasts (he called them drivers) using RF amplifiers The larger lamps were 30kW. He had scaled designs using a klystron that could drive over 200kW but never needed that much light. :shocked:

He also experimented with 2.4GHz microwave rotary globe lamps but was not satisfied with their (lack of) blue output which always had to be supplemented with mercury arc and was peaky.

PFO Lighting came out with some pretty decent LED light fixtures a couple of years back, but then, an aerospace R&D company that hadn't been building aquarium lighting at all, ended up getting the patent for use of LED's in aquarium lighting fixtures...and sued PFO into bankruptcy. (even though PFO had been building these fixtures for a couple of years prior to the issuance of the patent.)

I know a few people who switched to the LED light systems and they've experienced wonderful coral growth, great colors, and little to no added heat from the lights. (always a big problem with metal halides)

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

do these put out more lumens, or a better spectrum? I know there are differences in build quality, and construction, but i just found a 2x price difference to be insane... though i wonder how CMH bulbs would work on these gardens...

There's so many different types of bulbs these days. The cheaper eye (Iwasaki) ones tend to be quite green. Reef bulbs at 20K are quite blue and lack efficacy compared to the 5500K bulbs which look quite similar to afternoon daylight. Do remember that a reef in real life (or a BIG tank hehe!) at 20 meters is going to quite filtered and the light will have a bluer cast. Twice the number of 20K bulbs would be needed or stepping up to 400W bulbs would probably be better.

Here's some VERY GOOD lighting links:

http://www.cnidarianreef.com/lamps.cfm

In the above link, you'll find a group of photos taken of the same tank with different lighting. (different ballasts and different bulb combinations)

here's a site put together that allows you to compare them side by side:

http://chrismorris.ca/250wcolour/


And, from Dr. Sanjay Joshi:

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/lighting

 

[DougoMan]

Way cooler than salt water IMO and way cheaper too.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Here's some VERY GOOD lighting links:

http://www.cnidarianreef.com/lamps.cfm

In the above link, you'll find a group of photos taken of the same tank with different lighting. (different ballasts and different bulb combinations)

here's a site put together that allows you to compare them side by side:

http://chrismorris.ca/250wcolour/


And, from Dr. Sanjay Joshi:

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/lighting

Don't forget the spectral shift to warmer as the lamps age. Also if proper shutdown and positioning is not observed the lamp output is changed - sometimes permanently.

LED definitely has a bright future. Heat is not completely absent either! Higher powered arrays will throw heat into a body of water. Of course an arc tube running at 1700C is quite the producer of heat!

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Here's some VERY GOOD lighting links:

http://www.cnidarianreef.com/lamps.cfm

In the above link, you'll find a group of photos taken of the same tank with different lighting. (different ballasts and different bulb combinations)

here's a site put together that allows you to compare them side by side:

http://chrismorris.ca/250wcolour/


And, from Dr. Sanjay Joshi:

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/lighting

Don't forget the spectral shift to warmer as the lamps age. Also if proper shutdown and positioning is not observed the lamp output is changed - sometimes permanently.

LED definitely has a bright future. Heat is not completely absent either! Higher powered arrays will throw heat into a body of water. Of course an arc tube running at 1700C is quite the producer of heat!

It's surprising at the spectral shift that MH bulbs go through in their lives. Even the better quality 10,000K bulbs start out looking like crap, then, usually after about 100 hours of burn time, they pick up the nice blue-white color that reefers usually want...and after several months, (6 to 12 months depending on the bulb and ballast) they shift again, away from the desired spectrum.

I agree that LED lighting isn't totally heat-free, but as compared to the other options, (VHO fluorescent, HO compact fluorescent, Metal Halide) they're definitely a much smaller heat source.
Totally heat-free lighting is still only a pipe dream AFAIK.

 

[ViviTheMage]

those are so cool!