Underpowering a GTX 680

[BallaTheFeared]

The good power supplies typically have operating temperature from 10°C - 50°C.Anything below or above results in decreased efficiency.

Yes which is what we're talking about here, with such an open ended question JG might have been citing a $14 550w unit on newegg.

If you look at his tests his hotbox only got into the 30C range, so I didn't want to use that to show it still easily made it's rated power. However Techpowerup has a real nice hotbox going on with an overloaded 12v (30A vs rated 28A) at @ 52C intake… Guess what? It still makes it rated power.

As you can see the PSU worked flawlessly even at 52.1°C ambient and with full load, so we wonder why Corsair states 430W maximum wattage at only 30°C. Efficiency was constantly above 80% and peaked at 85.5% with 40%, of maximum rated capacity, load.

You are right about some PSU's not making their rated power at hotter/colder temps, however a CX430 isn't one of those PSU - at least not at normal operating temps, even 52C is well above what I'd call normal.

However the way you stated it, 85% efficiency means 85% of total rated wattage while hotboxed is utterly wrong. It is simply stating how much power it needs to draw to make it's power. When you look at the 100% load graph you see exactly that, 430 watts provided required 525 watts from the wall, resulting in an efficiency of 81.8%.

 

[Davste]

Words of wisdom.

Advice taken.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Advice taken.

:thumbsup:

Sorry about your thread, but at least you got to hear the finer details before decided

 

[Davste]

:thumbsup:

Sorry about your thread, but at least you got to hear the finer details before decided

The beast is sitting in a box. I don't want to even remotely risk having it damaged. It's really, really expensive, and there's no way I'm ever going to be so crazy as to spend €500 on a graphics card again in my life, however impatient I may be.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Yeah it's only a few days wait, I don't believe there is any actual risk to your physical components but I'm just a guy on the internet

 

[Puppies04]

why don't you actually check the specs of his "430 watt" psu before making a smart aleck comment? it can handle a max of 336 watts on the 12v line which is where about 95% of the power will need to come from.

and its a entry level psu that makes that rating at only 30 C which may not be very realistic so NO I do not trust it to be put at around 90% load.

So you don't trust a PSU to put out 90% of its capacity, thats your choice. If on the other hand I would like to live in reality where a company like corsair would be looking an hundreds of thousands of dollars of repair bills if someone actually proved that a PSU rated to produce 336W on its 12v rail was destroying hardware with 300w being pulled through it then that is my choice.

Nobody is claiming it would be a good idea to run a 680 on that PSU longterm, the OP already has another PSU ordered.

BTW this is an entry level PSU

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/500w-psu-ezcool-silent-ps-10-quiet-fan-atx-v203-24pinplus4-80mm-fan

£11.98

This is an entry level enthusiast psu which means something completly different.

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/430w...30cxv2uk-80-eff-uncertified-quiet-fan-atx-v23

£36.52

Would I run a 680 off the first one, not a chance in hell.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I ran a Phenom II x6 and GTX 470 off the better version of his PSU, the CX400, which was rated at 30A 12v providing a bit more wattage than his where it matters.

But in the end it's up to him, it's his hardware

I wouldn't run it forever but an hour or two just to enjoy my new item, dang right I would

 

[BFG10K]

Moved to PSU forum - Super Moderator BFG10K.

 

[lehtv]

EDIT: jonnyGURU himself just linked me to his sticky that says this

Power supplies can perform differently depending on the temperature at which they are operating at. When a power supply is rated for it's total output wattage, it is rated to do so at a particular temperature. Anything beyond this temperature may take away from the power supply's capability. A power supply that is rated to put out 550W at 25°C or 30°C (room temperature) may only be able to put out 75% of that at 40°C or 50°C (actual operating temperature). This difference is called the "de-rating curve". A normal operating temperature for a power supply is 40°C.

Except that in the case of CX430, you don't need to rely on theory, you can look at actual test results.

That's a +12V rail rated for 336W at 30C, pushing out 480W at 45.8C ambient temperature.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Corsair-CX430-Power-Supply-Review/1200/8

Not that I advocate using CX430 to power GTX680.

 

[Davste]

Except that in the case of CX430, you don't need to rely on theory, you can look at actual test results.

" It is important to know that during this test noise levels were way above the maximum allowed (e.g., 600 mV at +12V, 255 mV at +5 V, and 520 mV at -12 V), showing that the unit had already reached its limits."

Noise levels..... devastating to me.
I use ethernet over powerline. More noise levels = no online gaming and unreliable internet

 

[TemjinGold]

So I'm curious. There's been a ton of charts proving that the OP's system will not use enough wattage buckle that PSU. However, there still hasn't been a single chart proving it WILL draw a stupid amount of wattage. I know it's been asked for so where is it? Do you guys just guesstimate from your gut and call that fact? Can we see some power readings from these "more demanding than Metro 2033" games pulling the power claimed?

I've mentioned before that my own system has never ticked higher than 330 watts from the wall. 40 of those watts is my monitor and when you factor in efficiency, that means my system maxes at well less than 300 watts for what I do and play. All I ever hear is that I'm either a liar or I should try something more demanding so I usually don't bother responding anymore. The OP is looking to play a couple of games for 3 days, not fold 24/7 for years. If you all are right, then the worst that will happen is his system will power off. However, the real reason all of the 1000w people are so against the OP trying it is because they are afraid of being proven wrong since we STILL don't have a single chart from anyone claiming that the OP's system would pull these unsafe wattage levels everyone is talking about.

I bought my psu because I like my psus running silent, NOT because I think I even remotely need this much power or because of something as dumb as "future proofing" (the only way to future proof is to save your money and buy it in the future.)

OP: If you really want to play a few games, just keep everything at stock and don't OC at all for these couple of days. Your psu should handle what you intended anyway but I can definitely understand you being cautious with something so expensive. If you don't OC at all for either part and don't have a horde of other things plugged into your system, you will be fine.

 

[Davste]

A DVD drive, an SSD, two hard drives, a soundcard, razer mouse and a keyboard. That's about it.

I'll tell you what, if I get my hands on a meter to get the total power usage of my system, I'll measure it, just for curiosity's sake - but after I get the new PSU. Didn't like what I read about noise levels, and don't want to risk anything

 

[ShintaiDK]

I think the OP should be safe, but barely so. Assumed the old PSU delivers what it says.

If you use 300W. It doesnt matter if the PSU supplies 350W or 1200W.

 

[natto fire]

I would try it too.

For those that think a Kill-A-Watt is not accurate, I have compared one to a Watts Up plug in meter, as well as a Fluke clamp meter, and they were all close enough to be negligible.

 

[toyota]

I would try it too.

For those that think a Kill-A-Watt is not accurate, I have compared one to a Watts Up plug in meter, as well as a Fluke clamp meter, and they were all close enough to be negligible.

its silly to try it when he will have a new psu in 2 days. BEST case scenario is that he pushes that entry level psu very hard. he has already made the smart decision to wait so probably no need for more discussion.

the kill-a-watt may be ok but I have seen two of them have different numbers on the same pc.

 

[Puppies04]

he has already made the smart decision to wait so probably no need for more discussion.

You mean the discussion that keeps pointing back to the fact that his PSU will easily run those components in spec with 10% to spare when you keep claiming otherwise. Yeah maybe you shouldn't discuss it anymore.

 

[toyota]

You mean the discussion that keeps pointing back to the fact that his PSU will easily run those components in spec with 10% to spare when you keep claiming otherwise. Yeah maybe you shouldn't discuss it anymore.

yeah because running Corsairs entry level psu at 90% is such a wise thing to do.

AGAIN the op had enough sense to realize it was not going to be a good idea so move on.

 

[Puppies04]

yeah because running Corsairs entry level psu at 90% is such wise a thing to do.

You say that like it means something, are you saying that a reputable brand like corsair is producing PSUs that won't deliver 90% of their capacity under load when this thread is absolutly full of proof that says otherwise.

Do you have one shred of proof to back up your claims or is it just a case of "well back in 1990 I had a PSU from a crappy manufacturer take out a system". Just incase you had forgot it is now 2012. The days of people buying PSUs rated at double their actual need should be long gone although scaremongerers like you seem to be hell bent on making sure that never happens.

AGAIN the op had enough sense to realize it was not going to be a good idea so move on.

Yippee, you scared a guy into not using his new toy with completely unfounded nonsense. Well done sir.

 

[toyota]

You say that like it means something, are you saying that a reputable brand like corsair is producing PSUs that won't deliver 90% of their capacity under load when this thread is absolutly full of proof that says otherwise.

Do you have one shred of proof to back up your claims or is it just a case of "well back in 1990 I had a PSU from a crappy manufacturer take out a system". Just incase you had forgot it is now 2012. The days of people buying PSUs rated at double their actual need should be long gone although scaremongerers like you seem to be hell bent on making sure that never happens.



Yippee, you scared a guy into not using his new toy with completely unfounded nonsense. Well done sir.

running ANY psu at 90% of its max rated capacity is not really a good idea. considering this is Corsair's entry level psu that even they recommend for basic computers and 30C temps then thats even more of a reason NOT to do it.

you have done nothing but act like a jerk for this entire thread for no other reason than to jump on me. you have nothing at all to offer the OP while I am trying to at least help him based on what I think is the best for him. he will have a new PSU in 2 days now and it makes the most sense to wait at this point. if you want to risk damaging or pushing your hardware really hard then knock yourself out but no way in hell will I recommend it to someone asking.

 

[Davste]

Don't turn this into a flame thread. It doesn't matter who is right. The decision has been taken already.
Also, the first thing I intend to do if I put that in is overclock it and run 3D benchmarks. I really don't feel comfortable doing that with my PSU. The graphics card costs nearly as much as the whole pc itself!

 

[TemjinGold]

Please post one reputable source that proves running ANY quality PSU at 90% of rated wattage is demonstrably bad.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Don't turn this into a flame thread. It doesn't matter who is right. The decision has been taken already.
Also, the first thing I intend to do if I put that in is overclock it and run 3D benchmarks. I really don't feel comfortable doing that with my PSU. The graphics card costs nearly as much as the whole pc itself!

Avg consumption of the 680 according to TPU is 166w, it will peak higher, but your PSU can go over it's rated voltage without issue. If it goes too far over it simply trips the OVP and shuts your PC off.

Now lets say your i7-2600k in gaming, draws about 70w @ stock, add 166w to that, add in say 45~ watts for your fans, chipset, and what not, and you can see why there is no cause for concern.

Not only can your PSU handle spikes over 330w, but if it's in danger it will cut power itself.

PSU are one of the most over kill purchases people make, if you don't believe me just look at the system of the guy whose telling you that you don't have enough power.

An i5-2500k @ 4.5Ghz is going to draw about 130w in gaming, a GTX 570 on avg draws about 166w as well, he has one HDD, and four sticks of ram. While owning a 650 watt PSU. Something doesn't add up.

 

[Davste]

Avg consumption of the 680 according to TPU is 166w, it will peak higher, but your PSU can go over it's rated voltage without issue. If it goes too far over it simply trips the OVP and shuts your PC off.

Now lets say your i7-2600k in gaming, draws about 70w @ stock, add 166w to that, add in a few watts for your fans and what not, and you can see why there is no cause for concern.

Not only can your PSU handle spikes over 330w, but if it's in danger it will cut power itself.

PSU are one of the most over kill purchases people make, if you don't believe me just look at the system of the guy whose telling you that you don't have enough power.

An i5-2500k @ 4.5Ghz is going to draw about 130w in gaming, a GTX 570 on avg draws about 166w as well, he has one HDD, and four sticks of ram. While owning a 650 watt PSU. Something doesn't add up.

A guy quoted graphs saying that my PSU will pump out up to 500 watts before it shuts down. In the process, it will add a lot of electrical noise which as far as I can tell is not nice at all for neither the CPU, graphics card, nor other components.

 

[toyota]

Avg consumption of the 680 according to TPU is 166w, it will peak higher, but your PSU can go over it's rated voltage without issue. If it goes too far over it simply trips the OVP and shuts your PC off.

Now lets say your i7-2600k in gaming, draws about 70w @ stock, add 166w to that, add in say 45~ watts for your fans, chipset, and what not, and you can see why there is no cause for concern.

Not only can your PSU handle spikes over 330w, but if it's in danger it will cut power itself.

PSU are one of the most over kill purchases people make, if you don't believe me just look at the system of the guy whose telling you that you don't have enough power.

An i5-2500k @ 4.5Ghz is going to draw about 130w in gaming, a GTX 570 on avg draws about 166w as well, he has one HDD, and four sticks of ram. While owning a 650 watt PSU. Something doesn't add up.

are you freaking kidding me? so to you its okay to run it a system right up to the point of where it has to shut up to fully protect itself. I am sorry but that is asinine advice to give someone that can wait 2 days to avoid any such scenario or issues at all.

and and I had a Antec Neo Eco 520 with 480 watts on the 12v watt psu but the fan on it would ramp up really high under load in some demanding games. I got the TX650 to replace it while it was on sale for 60 bucks. I now have a nice quiet power supply that does not have to work hard at all under load and allows me to get a much better gpu setup if I desire. not to mention even the gtx570 can use way more than 166 watts. anyway to you I guess that seems foolish and I should save 20 bucks and get a psu that will be pushed near its limits.

 

[Davste]

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Corsair-CX430-Power-Supply-Review/1200/8

"It is important to know that during this test noise levels were way above the maximum allowed (e.g., 600 mV at +12V, 255 mV at +5 V, and 520 mV at -12 V), showing that the unit had already reached its limits."


Definition of electrical noise:
"Electrical Noise: this is a high frequency noise either common or normal mode which can cause severe disruption and damage to circuits and equipment."

Any comments on that?