Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[OCNewbie]

Where's the DNA from GZ on TM's hands to support this for starters?

You know this... TM's "hands" were not tested, only his fingernail clippings.

 

[OCNewbie]

No one has to yet to answer my simple question.

How does a man, with a loaded gun, 2 flashlights, who wanted to be a cop, who was in school for criminal justice, who had just been following/stalking a kid throughout his neighborhood, suddenly find himself in a position where he is the victim?

I can't clear that hurdle.

Isn't the hurdle you're actually having trouble clearing the one where a non-black man shoots and kills a black juvenile and it isn't murder?

 

[BUTCH1]

He said TM was on top of GZ ..

pounding him.....

He didn't witness how Zimmerman got those injuries?

How did GZ get those injuries then ... LOL .. or let me guess: - GZ inflicted those injuries onto himself .. on his own, correct?

Ya ... Right ... OK then .....

The fact that TM inflicted the injuries is not in question, the fact that GZ couldn't fight his way through wet tissue paper was/is a more compelling reason to stay in his vehicle and let the police handle a suspicious person call. If your pathetically weak in any physical combat your going to lose and be forced to shoot the other person who is amped up as hell after being followed then chased by a Rambo LEO wanna-be. Are you really surprised with the ferocity TM fought with, if your in his shoes WTF would you be thinking, "oh, he's just in a rush to say hello!". Get a clue to how people in the real world react when confronted with that situation.

 

[BUTCH1]

Isn't the hurdle you're actually having trouble clearing the one where a non-black man shoots and kills a black juvenile and it isn't murder?

No, take race out of it, say it was 2 white people, one adult, one juvenile, would that make GZ's actions any less stupid?...NO.....

 

[OCNewbie]

No, take race out of it, say it was 2 white people, one adult, one juvenile, would that make GZ's actions any less stupid?...NO.....

Well, that all depends on what you have on your own personal list of "GZ's actions". I will assume that what you're willing to put on that list includes things that haven't yet been proven, and also omits context of his actions as well. I make those assumptions based on a moderate recollection of many of your previous posts.

 

[BUTCH1]

Well, that all depends on what you have on your own personal list of "GZ's actions". I will assume that what you're willing to put on that list includes things that haven't yet been proven, and also omits context of his actions as well. I make those assumptions based on a moderate recollection of many of your previous posts.

My post's are irrelevant, what's relevant is GZ should have had the common sense to stay in his car or even (gasp) go home and let a trained LEO investigate a stranger in the neighborhood. He didn't, scared the crap out of a teen who was probably in fear when he started fighting GZ, hence the ass-whipping handed out.

 

[buckshot24]

My post's are irrelevant, what's relevant is GZ should have had the common sense to stay in his car or even (gasp) go home and let a trained LEO investigate a stranger in the neighborhood. He didn't, scared the crap out of a teen who was probably in fear when he started fighting GZ, hence the ass-whipping handed out.

But was it murder? That is what GZ is on trial for. I'm sure at this point that he agrees that he shouldn't have did whatever he did that night.

 

[buckshot24]

The fact that TM inflicted the injuries is not in question, the fact that GZ couldn't fight his way through wet tissue paper was/is a more compelling reason to stay in his vehicle and let the police handle a suspicious person call. If your pathetically weak in any physical combat your going to lose and be forced to shoot the other person who is amped up as hell after being followed then chased by a Rambo LEO wanna-be. Are you really surprised with the ferocity TM fought with, if your in his shoes WTF would you be thinking, "oh, he's just in a rush to say hello!". Get a clue to how people in the real world react when confronted with that situation.

Unless Zimmerman attacked Martin then any physical contact TM initiated wasn't warranted. That doesn't mean I don't understand Martin's reaction but that doesn't mean its legally justified.

 

[Svnla]

The fact that TM inflicted the injuries is not in question, the fact that GZ couldn't fight his way through wet tissue paper was/is a more compelling reason to stay in his vehicle and let the police handle a suspicious person call. If your pathetically weak in any physical combat your going to lose and be forced to shoot the other person who is amped up as hell after being followed then chased by a Rambo LEO wanna-be. Are you really surprised with the ferocity TM fought with, if your in his shoes WTF would you be thinking, "oh, he's just in a rush to say hello!". Get a clue to how people in the real world react when confronted with that situation.

By the same token, people like TM should know that when you beat up/assault others or keep it real, the other side could respond with deadly force. Be prepare to pay the price, up to and including your own life.

If you gonna to diss it out, be prepare to take some right back.

 

[soundforbjt]

But was it murder? That is what GZ is on trial for. I'm sure at this point that he agrees that he shouldn't have did whatever he did that night.

Actually, no. GZ said in an interview (Hannity perhaps), that he'd do the same thing if he had it to do over, iirc.

 

[OCNewbie]

My post's are irrelevant, what's relevant is GZ should have had the common sense to stay in his car {snip}

I think this hinges entirely on what your belief is (or whether or not you're willing to believe GZ's explanation) of why he got out of the car, and what GZ's expected outcome was when he did so. I don't suppose you're intending to imply that it should be "common sense" for someone to assume a young black male would lay in wait, or return to confront and then attack someone merely because they were no longer in a vehicle.

{snip}or even (gasp) go home and let a trained LEO investigate a stranger in the neighborhood. He didn't, scared the crap out of a teen who was probably in fear when he started fighting GZ, hence the ass-whipping handed out.

A mobile stranger? GZ didn't move in closer to examine a fixed, unmoving object. How was "a trained LEO" supposed to investigate this stranger if this stranger's whereabouts were unknown?

This is the part where I correctly assumed your accepted narrative includes a teenager whom GZ "scared the crap out of", who was "probably in fear" without that being remotely substantiated. TM returning from the T area to circle GZ's car is totally contradictory to the idea that he was frightened, unless he suddenly became frightened after he circled GZ's car (though I understand some need to believe this didn't happen), as GZ made every effort to avoid a confrontation at that point. If you want to say TM got scare after that point, the fact that TM was maybe 20-30 seconds away from home at the "Shit, he's running" point, yet somehow didn't make it home for the remaining ~2 minutes GZ was on the phone, and another minute or two after that point suggests that TM may very well have intended on sticking around to confront GZ.

 

[OCNewbie]

Actually, no. GZ said in an interview (Hannity perhaps), that he'd do the same thing if he had it to do over, iirc.

That's just religious mumbo jumbo speaking (Who am I to question God's plan?).

 

[soundforbjt]

You know this... TM's "hands" were not tested, only his fingernail clippings.

Still amazing that no blood under the fingernails of the hands that were "smothering" (GZ"s words) bleeding nose and mouth.

 

[soundforbjt]

That's just religious mumbo jumbo speaking (Who am I to question God's plan?).

He still inferred it.

 

[OCNewbie]

He still inferred it.

Based on a perceived obligation to a higher power... his beliefs require him not to question most anything that happens. It's not like he's saying "I'm very pleased with what transpired, and would enjoy going through it again". He's merely saying it's not up to him to question "God's plan". Trayvon's mom said something similar, about it being something that God had designed for her life, or something to that effect, though of course no one would suggest she's pleased with what transpired.

But yes, he did say something to the affect that he wouldn't change what happened (without further context).

 

[buckshot24]

Actually, no. GZ said in an interview (Hannity perhaps), that he'd do the same thing if he had it to do over, iirc.

I bet he doesn't believe that now, if he ever really did.

 

[Darkman]

George Zimmerman trial: Judge to rule on expert testimony for 911 call screams

By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
June 6, 2013

... Who is heard crying out, Trayvon or his shooter, George Zimmerman?

In a crucial hearing that starts Thursday and may drag into Friday, Circuit Judge Debra Nelson will hear from experts who say they have an answer. Then she'll decide which, if any, Zimmerman's jury can hear from at his second-degree-murder trial, which starts Monday.

Read more: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-trial-audio-experts-20130606,0,6554304.story

 

[Silver Prime]

So whats the main debate on this subject, to justify one mans problems, mistakes and or punishments? Theres like a 100 people being killed per day all around the world, and you think argueing about one incident that could have been accidental is suppose to have any merits of anything at all besides wasting time?

 

[Darkman]

Racism / Lynch Mob, silver prime

Today's hearing ... I am going to miss ... leaving soon and won't be back till noon or so .. or later ....

 

[Druidx]

No one has to yet to answer my simple question.

How does a man, with a loaded gun, 2 flashlights, who wanted to be a cop, who was in school for criminal justice, who had just been following/stalking a kid throughout his neighborhood, suddenly find himself in a position where he is the victim?

I can't clear that hurdle.

Thats easy, because the only crime committed was the assault by TM

If you were honest you would just admit the real hurdle for you is the fact GZ is white. Isn't that why you lied about it being racial?

The ever present summary, so you won't lose track.
Emp: It was racial
No it wasn’t
Emp: You are stupid, it was racial, even Serino said so.
No he didn’t, he said it wasn’t racial
Emp: But his mom is from Peru, and here is an article that says they are all racist.
But you claimed Serino said it was racial when it wasn’t, what does Peru have to do with it?
Emp: The cousin said he was a racist
She said the family was racist but couldn’t name a single time when GZ acted with any racial bias
Emp: I don’t care, you’re just being stupid of course it was racial.
But you claimed Serino said that when he said the exact opposite, why can’t you admit you are wrong.
Emp: I’m not wrong, that is what Serino said, I read every piece of evidence an know what he said. I would find it again but I have a life.
30 seconds later, here is the link you couldn’t find, proving Serino said the exact opposite of what you claim he said.
Emp: Of course he was a racist, didn’t you see my link about Peru.
I don’t care about Peru, I’m asking you to admit you lied to support your opinion it was racial.
Emp: Facts really don't matter to you GZ supporters
Actually they do, the fact is you were wrong, why can’t you just admit it?
Emp: I don't know what you are even talking about regarding the Serino point.
That fact has been pointed out to you over a dozen times but you’re to egotistical to admit you were wrong. Does that answer your question?
Emp: Why are you harassing me about a post from a year ago?
I’m not, I’m harassing you about a lie from 2 days ago.
Emp: Try this. See what percentage of the posts in the last 4 days has been devoted to me and this issue.
Dozens but that is only because you still haven’t admitted you lied even though it’s right there in black and white.
Emp: I'm just like Martin Luther King Jr. would you call MLK a racist?
No. but I would call a liar a liar, regardless of their race.
Emp: I'm just like Martin Luther King Jr.
So you’re saying MLK was a liar?
Emp: The racism is free and flowing on this page.
Is that how you justify to yourself for lying about the facts of the case?
Emp: Links to some random blog about Obama’s racist White House Correspondents' Dinner
Was that lady related to you by chance, because she sounds a lot like you, making up shit to support her own preconceived and bigoted opinions.
Emp: Racism in this case can only be one sided, anyone who doesn't agree with me is a racist and need to STFU
Sadly, he still doesn't understand his whole argument about racism started out with a lie, so it's based on a false premises.
Emp: Post an excerpt from a newspaper column that says all white Americans are racist
Sadly poor Emp doesn’t understand that just because he found someone that shared his warped view of the world, doesn’t change the fact he had to lie to support his opinion.

 

[TerryMathews]

If true, GZ has less of a chance than I thought. That's what I thought the State should've charged him with.

This is far from a sure thing. Jury instructions for lesser included charges is at the judge's discretion.

The prosecution screwed the pooch by not charging him with the lesser charges from the get go.

 

[Silver Prime]

Racism / Lynch Mob, silver prime

Today's hearing ... I am going to miss ... leaving soon and won't be back till noon or so .. or later ....

Oh, Racism...carry on.

 

[Darkman]

just to make it clear, Silver Prime ... I wasn't talking about you, LOL ...

... was talking about the case, in whole

 

[Silver Prime]

just to make it clear, Silver Prime ... I wasn't talking about you, LOL ...

... was talking about the case, in whole

Yeah, I got it...thanks for the thoughtful gesture.

Tootles ^_^

 

[emperus]

Perhaps because O'Mara didn't like his chances of winning the pre-trial hearing (where the defense has to essentially prove their case, to a higher standard), and if GZ were to take the stand at the pre-trial hearing, all of GZ's statements would be available for the prosecution to then cross GZ again for the criminal trial. Unless the pre-trial hearing was a shoe in, GZ taking the stand would have only served to give the prosecution even more ammo with which to work with at the criminal trial.

The pre-trial is a lower standard. It is by a preponderance of the evidence.