Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[WHAMPOM]

No way of knowing is there? I just find it extremely suspect with regards to the 60 day window. How about the State just gives a 30 or 60 day before window on TM's school records and social media accounts? Would you guys find that "gracious"?

A very convenient time frame, we will not get the evaluations from Zimmy's court ordered anger management course. Or any other mental care he may have received. Just how does one with a history of domestic abuse and "mild (far as we know) multiple mental disorders" own a gun and qualify for a concealed carry permit.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

A very convenient time frame, we will not get the evaluations from Zimmy's court ordered anger management course. Or any other mental care he may have received. Just how does one with a history of domestic abuse and "mild (far as we know) multiple mental disorders" own a gun and qualify for a concealed carry permit.

Obviously his past didn't exclude him from purchasing a firearm nor getting a concealed weapons permit as he was subjected to a criminal background check for both. Taking Adderall under the care of a doctor doesn't prevent someone from owning a weapon or having a concealed weapon.

 

[TerryMathews]

A very convenient time frame, we will not get the evaluations from Zimmy's court ordered anger management course. Or any other mental care he may have received. Just how does one with a history of domestic abuse and "mild (far as we know) multiple mental disorders" own a gun and qualify for a concealed carry permit.

Because the doctor who's care he was under did not label him as mentally defective in NICS.

Omara not offering them != the court not ordering their disclosure. I am truly surprised at the reaction you people are having at MOMs generous offer. He's under no obligation to give them voluntarily. How you can spin that as anything but a nice gesture is beyond me

 

[Tom]

I don't think Zimmerman's prescriptions are gonna matter at all. Its just a judgement call if he acted rashly and improperly, or not. Doesn't matter why, if he did.

And there's a judgement call about about the necessity to shoot that I think comes down one of two ways.

1. a jury decides Zimmerman is in some ways responsible for the events taking place and even if he was losing the fight he's bears some responsibility which means he better damn well have really needed to shoot him, and his injuries don't support that.

2. Or, a jury doesn't think it matters what Zimmerman did prior to the fight and then the extent of the injuries is less important.

 

[Tom]

Because the doctor who's care he was under did not label him as mentally defective in NICS.

Omara not offering them != the court not ordering their disclosure. I am truly surprised at the reaction you people are having at MOMs generous offer. He's under no obligation to give them voluntarily. How you can spin that as anything but a nice gesture is beyond me

It isn't up to him if the prosecutor gets them, its up to the judge. By offering the time limits he's seeking to limit what the judge decides.

Its certainly not a "nice gesture" to try to restrict something that otherwise wouldn't be limited.

Its good lawyering though, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I don't think Zimmerman's prescriptions are gonna matter at all. Its just a judgement call if he acted rashly and improperly, or not. Doesn't matter why, if he did.

And there's a judgement call about about the necessity to shoot that I think comes down one of two ways.

1. a jury decides Zimmerman is in some ways responsible for the events taking place and even if he was losing the fight he's bears some responsibility which means he better damn well have really needed to shoot him, and his injuries don't support that.

2. Or, a jury doesn't think it matters what Zimmerman did prior to the fight and then the extent of the injuries is less important.

Depending on what TM's school records show this case may be over before it ever makes it before a jury. If the case makes it before a jury the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ couldn't have feared he was in imminent danger when he shot TM. The jury will be instructed that the law doesn't require specific injuries before the person can exercise justified use of force in defense of themselves.

 

[TerryMathews]

It isn't up to him if the prosecutor gets them, its up to the judge. By offering the time limits he's seeking to limit what the judge decides.

Its certainly not a "nice gesture" to try to restrict something that otherwise wouldn't be limited.

Its good lawyering though, nothing wrong with that.

OMara is offering 60 days in a situation where he is required to offer 0. How is that anything but generous?

Yes, he has a motivation for doing it. Are you the kind of person who complains about charitable donations because the giver gets a tax break too?

 

[Tom]

Depending on what TM's school records show this case may be over before it ever makes it before a jury. If the case makes it before a jury the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ couldn't have feared he was in imminent danger when he shot TM. The jury will be instructed that the law doesn't require specific injuries before the person can exercise justified use of force in defense of themselves.

So what ? The law leaves it up to the judge or jury to decide what constitutes reasonable fear of iminent death or great bodily harm, not what Zimmerman says he thought, what a reasonable person would think.

And they don't have to get to that point if they decide Zimmerman's actions preclude self-defense.

There is no absolute right to self-defense even in Florida.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So what ? The law leaves it up to the judge or jury to decide what constitutes reasonable fear of iminent death or great bodily harm, not what Zimmerman says he thought, what a reasonable person would think.

And they don't have to get to that point if they decide Zimmerman's actions preclude self-defense.

There is no absolute right to self-defense even in Florida.

I seriously doubt any reasonable person that found themselves in the same position GZ found himself in that night would not be in fear for their life. None the less the prosecution must prove that GZ couldn't have reasonably fear he was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm when he exercised his right to self defense.

 

[Oyeve]

So, where does this case stand today?

 

[OCNewbie]

So, where does this case stand today?

Some wins for the defense lately in gaining access to TM's school records, and Twitter and Facebook accounts. Some other stuff that I'm fuzzy on the details of, but it relates to statements by investigators early on in the investigation, before Corey took over. We'll hear more about that on the 26th I believe.

 

[spidey07]

So what ? The law leaves it up to the judge or jury to decide what constitutes reasonable fear of iminent death or great bodily harm, not what Zimmerman says he thought, what a reasonable person would think.

And they don't have to get to that point if they decide Zimmerman's actions preclude self-defense.

There is no absolute right to self-defense even in Florida.

According to long standing cases on back by the person who beat you is automatict imminent fear of life.

Your in the wrong side of the law here. I've posted many links to prove this.

On back with assailant over you is a very legal automatic use if lethal force.

You are wrong. You are willfully ignorant of self defense law.

 

[TerryMathews]

So, where does this case stand today?

Trial date set. Pre-trial immunity hearing pending. Several recent victories for the defense (Crump must reveal details of first DeeDee interview, phone records for both, social media accounts for both, Martins school records.)

MOM has a pending motion to enjoin the prosecutors office from "interviewing" the ADA and SPD officers who felt no charges were warranted. Should be decided on Friday.

FWIW nothing recent to move the needle towards provable guilt. And someone linked an EMT guideline that says to throw cellphones away from patient prior to defibrillation. So, likely, MOM can make a compelling argument that the cell phones location isn't conclusive for anything.

 

[soundforbjt]

Trial date set. Pre-trial immunity hearing pending. Several recent victories for the defense (Crump must reveal details of first DeeDee interview, phone records for both, social media accounts for both, Martins school records.)

MOM has a pending motion to enjoin the prosecutors office from "interviewing" the ADA and SPD officers who felt no charges were warranted. Should be decided on Friday.

FWIW nothing recent to move the needle towards provable guilt. And someone linked an EMT guideline that says to throw cellphones away from patient prior to defibrillation. So, likely, MOM can make a compelling argument that the cell phones location isn't conclusive for anything.

That's IF one was used. Is there any mention of one used at the scene where TM's body was found?

 

[OCNewbie]

That's IF one was used. Is there any mention of one used at the scene where TM's body was found?

Of what's publicly been released, what would have contained those details?

 

[EagleKeeper]

That's IF one was used. Is there any mention of one used at the scene where TM's body was found?

Defibrillators are not disposable items. there would not be a itemization of one in the EMT logs as inventory usage.

MOM will have to question the EMTs that responded, to see if one was taken to the scene.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Defibrillators are not disposable items. there would not be a itemization of one in the EMT logs as inventory usage.

MOM will have to question the EMTs that responded, to see if one was taken to the scene.

I would think all ambulances/EMT kit would be supplied with defibrillator. The fact TM was not responsive to CPR attempts the EMT's very well may have used a defibrillator as a last attempt effort to revive him.

Defibrillators are common place these days. We have two where I work, one in the office area and one in the shop. My daughters soccer team as well as my son's football team has one available at every game.

 

[Geosurface]

According to the guidelines it seems as though you would toss the phone as far from the person as possible even if all you were using was the earlier "heart rate monitor" step, and never ended up actually using the full defribulation functionality.

That was my understanding when I read them at least.

 

[TerryMathews]

I would think all ambulances/EMT kit would be supplied with defibrillator. The fact TM was not responsive to CPR attempts the EMT's very well may have used a defibrillator as a last attempt effort to revive him.

Defibrillators are common place these days. We have two where I work, one in the office area and one in the shop. My daughters soccer team as well as my son's football team has one available at every game.

Especially since an ECG was used. They may have even been the same device - some AEDs have an ECG window to fulfill both functions.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Especially since an ECG was used. They may have even been the same device - some AEDs have an ECG window to fulfill both functions.

I would think that an ambulance crew/EMT tech would prefer one device that could serve two functions rather than losing valuable space to carry two devices.

 

[TerryMathews]

I would think that an ambulance crew/EMT tech would prefer one device that could serve two functions rather than losing valuable space to carry two devices.

And again, there would be an inventory list to admit to evidence.

 

[EagleKeeper]

And again, there would be an inventory list to admit to evidence.

An inventory on the EMT vehicle would not count unless that was a statement that such equipment was actually removed from the vehicle for use.

 

[TerryMathews]

An inventory on the EMT vehicle would not count unless that was a statement that such equipment was actually removed from the vehicle for use.

True but it would show whether it was a combo device or not.

We know an ECG was performed on scene.

 

[Tom]

OMara is offering 60 days in a situation where he is required to offer 0. How is that anything but generous?

Yes, he has a motivation for doing it. Are you the kind of person who complains about charitable donations because the giver gets a tax break too?

Because it isn't up to him. Its up to the judge.

By presenting a limited offer he's actually seeking to limit what the judge ultimately decides, and he wouldn't make the offer if there was any negative implication for his client in the limited time frame he proposed.

Your analogy isn't the same at all.

And I'm not complaining, I'm pointing out what his offer actually is. And it isn't a generous favor for the prosecution, and it shouldn't be. That isn't his job.

 

[Tom]

Of what's publicly been released, what would have contained those details?

The police should have conducted interviews and the emts probably made statements.

I'm not sure but I think I remember seeing something like that in the documents released several months ago.