Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[soundforbjt]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Mo...rman/-/1637132/17052764/-/597naj/-/index.html

Looks like a police officer has revealed some secret meetings, etc, and the fact that Serino may have completely gone rogue when recommending manslaughter charges.

Rest of the SPD (other than a couple of black officers and a white female officer married to a black K-9 trainer) were all saying there was no evidence to charge GZ, that he'd acted in legal self-defense. Prosecutor agreed, then they brought in "special" prosecutor Angela Corey and she charged not just manslaughter but MOTHER FUCKING MURDER 2!!!

I may have gotten some of the particulars wrong, I just woke up. Check out the vid for yourself, etc.

At the hearing, O'Mara said Zimmerman was willing to share his medical records 30 days prior to and 30 days after the shooting. Nelson said she would rule later if Zimmerman's records will be released.

Makes me wonder what's in his past medical records that O'Mara doesn't want them to see.

 

[Geosurface]

that's actually interesting.

Here's the motion itself:

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Emergency%20Motion%20for%20Protective%20Order.pdf

Sergeant Santiago testified that during the course of Sanford Police Department's ongoing investigation of this case from approximately February 26, 2012 until mid-March, 2012, investigating officers and supervisors of the SPD met on a daily basis to specifically discuss the progress of the investigation and to task certain officers to follow-up on certain aspects of the investigation and to discuss the sufficiency of the evidence to support charging Mr. Zimmerman.

...

Sergeant Santiago testified that during these meetings, the attendees discussed the investigation and that the consensus of the group was that there was insufficient evidence to charge Mr. Zimmerman with committing any crime. ... Consensus was shared by Chief Lee, Captain O'Connor, Mr. Carter, and was not disputed by Investigator Serino.

...

Sergeant Santiago further testified that in a conversation with Mr. Carter on the day following the last meeting he attended on the Zimmerman case, Mr. Carter was very upset that the case was referred for prosecution recommending Mr. Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter. Investigator Santiago went on to testify that he immediately called his Captain who was similarly frustrated with Serino's recommendation to file a manslaughter charge.

...

The information was disclosed only through the deposition of Sergeant Santiago and was never disclosed by the State nor was there any disclosure even of the existence of these meetings or certainly not the substance of them. Further the State failed to list as a witness (one who would have particularly exculpatory information under Brady v Maryland.)

If the high ups at the SPD who were the most familiar with the evidence, and the law, were frustrated by even the RECOMMENDATION of pressing charges for MANSLAUGHTER imagine their reaction when they heard Corey charge Murder 2.

Methinks Dershowitz wasn't just being a defense attorney publicity hound when he said what he said, he was right on the money.

Politically based prosecution, pure and simple.

 

[TerryMathews]

Makes me wonder what's in his past medical records that O'Mara doesn't want them to see.

Likely it's just Omara doing his job.

 

[soundforbjt]

Likely it's just Omara doing his job.

What do you mean? O'Mara's doing a good job of covering up potentially important evidence?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Not to worry soundforbjt, Judge Nelson will review GZ's medical records and allow the prosecution access to what she deems to be relevant to the case. Laws concerning privacy of medical records must be followed by all including the prosecution.

 

[Tom]

Here's the motion itself:

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Emergency%20Motion%20for%20Protective%20Order.pdf



If the high ups at the SPD who were the most familiar with the evidence, and the law, were frustrated by even the RECOMMENDATION of pressing charges for MANSLAUGHTER imagine their reaction when they heard Corey charge Murder 2.

Methinks Dershowitz wasn't just being a defense attorney publicity hound when he said what he said, he was right on the money.

Politically based prosecution, pure and simple.

Its no more a politically based prosecution than it was a politically based non-prosecution.

Folrida's SYG law is aslo completely politically motivated. There was no hue and cry from the masses to change existing self-defense law, it was just the Florida legislature and governor doing the bidding of the NRA.

 

[Geosurface]

Its no more a politically based prosecution than it was a politically based non-prosecution.

Folrida's SYG law is aslo completely politically motivated. There was no hue and cry from the masses to change existing self-defense law, it was just the Florida legislature and governor doing the bidding of the NRA.

My understanding is that many people involved in what were very clearly self-defense situations were basically completely bankrupted, lost their homes, lives utterly upturned and ruined, because of having to go through the court process and defend themselves, and be liable to civil action.

I heard about one case where a black gentleman, I think this was in Ohio though, defend himself against two white thugs who attacked him in the street, and it was quite clearly self-defense. His apartment complex had a "no felons" rule and somehow, he got pegged at least temporarily as that... I am getting the details wrong maybe it wasn't a felon thing but, something about what he was going through, resulted in him being evicted when he wasn't even there to address it.

They put all of his belongings out on the street inside the apartment complex, and it was all taken.

Eventually he was cleared as doing completely rightful self-defense, but his life was ruined in the meantime. I don't even think the person he shot died.

 

[TerryMathews]

What do you mean? O'Mara's doing a good job of covering up potentially important evidence?

Yep. His job is to advocate for his client. Justice is the domain of the prosecution.

Out of curiosity, what mystery condition do you think he has that wouldnt be covered by that 60 day window?

FWIW, I think its very gracious of the defense to offer; much more so than the prosecution and Crump fighting tooth and nail to keep anyone from knowing what really happened in that first interview with DeeDee.

 

[spidey07]

What do you mean? O'Mara's doing a good job of covering up potentially important evidence?

His job is preventing prosecution from getting anything that could be used against the defendant. He's doing his job.

 

[soundforbjt]

Yep. His job is to advocate for his client. Justice is the domain of the prosecution.

Out of curiosity, what mystery condition do you think he has that wouldnt be covered by that 60 day window?

FWIW, I think its very gracious of the defense to offer; much more so than the prosecution and Crump fighting tooth and nail to keep anyone from knowing what really happened in that first interview with DeeDee.

No way of knowing is there? I just find it extremely suspect with regards to the 60 day window. How about the State just gives a 30 or 60 day before window on TM's school records and social media accounts? Would you guys find that "gracious"?

 

[TerryMathews]

No way of knowing is there? I just find it extremely suspect with regards to the 60 day window. How about the State just gives a 30 or 60 day before window on TM's school records and social media accounts? Would you guys find that "gracious"?

Yes, i would. I would be fine if the state offered that voluntarily. Since the state offered a 0 day window, i fail to see your point. Omara had to petition the court for both sets of records a process that is available to the persecution regarding the med records as well.

A 60 day window would include why he was out on suspension. Something the family and the persecution has fought tooth and nail to prevent.

You understand that you're arguing a false equivalency right? This is something Omara is offering uncontested and unrequested. The equivalent would have been for AC to say "In the interest of fairness, here are the last 30 days of Travons school records and the same period of his social media account activity.

Equivalence not found.

 

[Geosurface]

The thing is, the only real relevant thing in GZ's medical records is records of the injuries TM gave him.

The only other remotely relevant thing you could argue is drugs he was on. But how are you going to get a judge to allow legal, prescribed drugs to be presented as somehow negating the right to defend your life?

Whereas, if you can show that TM had gotten in trouble for attacking some other kid at his previous high school over a year ago, that's relevant to whether what GZ describes fits TM's character or not.

 

[soundforbjt]

Yes, i would. I would be fine if the state offered that voluntarily. Since the state offered a 0 day window, i fail to see your point. Omara had to petition the court for both sets of records a process that is available to the persecution regarding the med records as well.

A 60 day window would include why he was out on suspension. Something the family and the persecution has fought tooth and nail to prevent.

You understand that you're arguing a false equivalency right? This is something Omara is offering uncontested and unrequested. The equivalent would have been for AC to say "In the interest of fairness, here are the last 30 days of Travons school records and the same period of his social media account activity.

Equivalence not found.

I believe the State did have a motion for GZ's medical records, hence why it was brought up. MoM is the one limiting it to the 60 day window, he "offered" that as the only way he'd agree to any access by the State.

 

[TerryMathews]

I believe the State did have a motion for GZ's medical records, hence why it was brought up. MoM is the one limiting it to the 60 day window, he "offered" that as the only way he'd agree to any access by the State.

And again i point out to you thats more than the prosecution has done for the defense.

The prosecution can go to the judge and argue to get whatever timeframe they want without MOMs consent.

Its amazing: you accused ME of intellectual dishonesty.

How much Martins school records and social media accounts did the persecution and CrumpCo agree to provide?

 

[soundforbjt]

And again i point out to you thats more than the prosecution has done for the defense.

The prosecution can go to the judge and argue to get whatever timeframe they want without MOMs consent.

Its amazing: you accused ME of intellectual dishonesty.

How much Martins school records and social media accounts did the persecution and CrumpCo agree to provide?

I get your point, but the State is blowing it by not asking for his full medical records. And MoM may be trying to hide something. Guess we'll never know.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I get your point, but the State is blowing it by not asking for his full medical records. And MoM may be trying to hide something. Guess we'll never know.

The state did request GZ's medical record however, Judge Nelson stated she will review his medical record to determine what is relevant to the case and then allow the prosecution access to the relevant information.

 

[TerryMathews]

I get your point, but the State is blowing it by not asking for his full medical records. And MoM may be trying to hide something. Guess we'll never know.

So basically status quo in this case: MOM doing his job, AC playing games and not doing a good job.

Its the account balances all over again. If you want em request em, its how the process works.

Im glad you were finally able to "get it."

 

[soundforbjt]

The state did request GZ's medical record however, Judge Nelson stated she will review his medical record to determine what is relevant to the case and then allow the prosecution access to the relevant information.

Is the Judge a medical expert? She could easily miss something important.

 

[TerryMathews]

Is the Judge a medical expert? She could easily miss something important.

Are you under the impression judges make rulings in a vacuum?

To make my point crystal clear: when we say the judge will review we really mean the judge will farm it out to a clerk who will send the records to an expert or two for their expert opinions or to have specific questions answered.

The way you expect judges to work judges would have to be experts on everything. They consult with appropriate experts.

 

[soundforbjt]

Are you under the impression judges make rulings in a vacuum?

Some, yes.

 

[TerryMathews]

Some, yes.

You're right some judges are idiots. Lester, for a relevant example.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Is the Judge a medical expert? She could easily miss something important.

No however, she does understand laws that govern the release of information covered by privacy laws such as HIPAA. She will review GZ's medical record and provide the prosecution what she deems to be relevant to the case. She will not violate GZ's ptivacy rights nor break any laws.

 

[Geosurface]

Maybe there's a doctor's note in there Bernie and Angie hope to find:

"Patient exhibits signs of racism and vigilantism, expresses deep-seated hatred for punks and assholes, intention to not let them get away. Prescribing Adderal, or as we in the medical profession refer to it 'legal cocaine' with an attached recommendation that patient's right to bear arms and right to defend his own life be revoked."

 

[soundforbjt]

Maybe there's a doctor's note in there Bernie and Angie hope to find:

"Patient exhibits signs of racism and vigilantism, expresses deep-seated hatred for punks and assholes, intention to not let them get away. Prescribing Adderal, or as we in the medical profession refer to it 'legal cocaine' with an attached recommendation that patient's right to bear arms and right to defend his own life be revoked."

Funny, though I'd love to see the results of a psychological profile of GZ.

 

[spidey07]

Funny, though I'd love to see the results of a psychological profile of GZ.

And what bearing would that have on this case?

Martin is proven to be on top, after brutally beating zimmerman and preventing him from retreating. That is automatically self defense regardless of state of mind or drugs, etc. that is an automatic justifiable homocide as it meets all criteria of self defense and even exceeds them.

So far there has been ZERO evidence shown that this wasn't self defense. None.