Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[TerryMathews]

Who knows.

The good part is that you agree that he's complicit w\ his wife who's got pending criminal charges for lying to the court. That's a big step. Keep it up.

It would violate his 5th amendment rights. He nor his wife are required to testify against each other and that includes correcting his wife after testifying. This why he wasn't charged with perjury.

Airdata, I think if you look through my posts I've been fairly consistent and fair in how I've talked about both men.

The bottom line is it's unfair for allegations to be non grata for one man but fair game for the other.

And yes, I believe Zimmerman was complicit. I also believe it was not against the law in this caSE, although it would be common law I believe and not the 5th but regardless it's a common and long held legal precedent. I don't know how else you can reconcile that the prosecutor intentionally did not charge him.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

The reason he wasn't charged with perjury is because he never testified about the money.

Understood however, that for those that claim his silence was the same as lying to the court.

 

[airdata]

It would violate his 5th amendment rights. He nor his wife are required to testify against each other and that includes correcting his wife after testifying. This why he wasn't charged with perjury.

I'd find great humor in it if GZ took the stand and plead the 5th.

The 5th by definition is an admission of guilt without admitting you're guilty. No innocent person invokes the 5th.

 

[TerryMathews]

I'd find great humor in it if GZ took the stand and plead the 5th.

The 5th by definition is an admission of guilt without admitting you're guilty. No innocent person invokes the 5th.

Bull. Shit. A court CANNOT construe invoking the fifth as any sign of guilt. There are multiple supreme court cases upholding that precedent.

Any time ANYONE chooses to not speak to a peace officer without a lawyer present, they are using their fifth amendment right. Where do you think Miranda derived it from?

The fifth covers much more than testimony.

Edit: you're comment highlights perfectly why we hate people like you so much. You would gladly trade liberty for safety.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I'd find great humor in it if GZ took the stand and plead the 5th.

The 5th by definition is an admission of guilt without admitting you're guilty. No innocent person invokes the 5th.

Obviously you never studied basic law in high school or college. If you ever serve on a jury you will recieve instructions concerning the defendents 5th amendment rights and how you can't determine guilt should a defendent choose not to testify.

 

[emperus]

If you are use google maps than you have to guesstimate the location of the body. Since you're getting 40 feet you're probably locating the body even with the white fence between the 1st and 2nd apartments. The problem is that location doesn't work with the measurements from the police report. There is no way to get 39.10 from pillar A and 37.1 from Pillar B, the only way those numbers work is if the body was around 6-7 feet north of the white fence.

From the police report we know the fence is 22 feet from Pillar A and 11.2 from Pillar B based on the location of the first aid kit which was sitting right next to the white fence separating the apartments.
http://media2.abcactionnews.com//photo/2012/05/17/DSC_0025_20120517180401_640_480.JPG

I'm estimating an extra 12 feet from the T because the East-West sidewalk isn't perpendicular to the buildings. One side is 11 feet, the other is 14.2, I got 12.5 when I checked it via
http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm

Unfortunately we lack any measurement from the T. If everyone was willing to agree on the location of the keys from the sidewalk I could easily give distance to ever other piece of evidence but no one is willing to agree on anything.

I am using google maps and a couple of pictures of where the body actually was to estmate the distance.

My point is you can't argue on one hand the google maps estimate is inaccurate and then use google maps in your own estimate. There was no point doing all that math then. We could have just used google maps to esitmate it from the beginning.

Noone can agree, becasue noone knows. That is why the diagram serves no purpose without overlaying it to an actaul map of that area to get the true distances.

Hence, why I went with the google maps estimate.

 

[hal2kilo]

Damn, I missed posting at 1492 the year Columbus discovered the new world.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I'd find great humor in it if GZ took the stand and plead the 5th.

The 5th by definition is an admission of guilt without admitting you're guilty. No innocent person invokes the 5th.

Wow....... This speaks volumes about why you all blindly feel as though zimmerman is guily.

 

[Druidx]

I am using google maps and a couple of pictures of where the body actually was to estmate the distance.

My point is you can't argue on one hand the google maps estimate is inaccurate and then use google maps in your own estimate. There was no point doing all that math then. We could have just used google maps to esitmate it from the beginning.

Noone can agree, becasue noone knows. That is why the diagram serves no purpose without overlaying it to an actaul map of that area to get the true distances.

Hence, why I went with the google maps estimate.

Not really, you're estimating everything, while I'm limited to estimating only a portion of the distance. Either way, it's impossible to match the distances recorded in the police report to the location you would have to use to get 40 feet via google maps.

 

[Druidx]

I'd find great humor in it if GZ took the stand and plead the 5th.

The 5th by definition is an admission of guilt without admitting you're guilty. No innocent person invokes the 5th.

Sorry but Robert Jackson, the former United States Attorney General and Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court disagrees with you.

any lawyer worth his salt will tell the suspect in no uncertain terms to make no statement to the police under any circumstances

These were posted earlier, they are very informative for anyone who wants to learn something.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhbJd2USUDI
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stN3KjsVT-A&feature=relmfu
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akLryWyf2Kg&feature=relmfu

 

[airdata]

Bull. Shit. A court CANNOT construe invoking the fifth as any sign of guilt. There are multiple supreme court cases upholding that precedent.

Any time ANYONE chooses to not speak to a peace officer without a lawyer present, they are using their fifth amendment right. Where do you think Miranda derived it from?

The fifth covers much more than testimony.

Good thing I said nothing about the court. I'm speaking in common sense terms. You know. Stuff that everybody knows. It's simply common sense that if somebody invokes the 5th, it shows that they're hiding things.

The situation is slightly different w\ police and the courts. With a court situation a person would already have been accused of a crime and would be refusing to testify because they'd be incriminating themselves...

w\ police officers it could be slightly different if you have a non conformist, anti police type person who just does it for kicks or to make a youtube video of them embarrassing a cop.

Edit: you're comment highlights perfectly why we hate people like you so much. You would gladly trade liberty for safety.

No, you're wrong there. Don't mistake me for one of these right wing tools plz.

 

[airdata]

Wow....... This speaks volumes about why you all blindly feel as though zimmerman is guily.

You know, I thought you had me on ignore since you didn't respond when I pointed out that you were lying about Zimmerman seeing trayvon looking around people's houses.

And this is another comment that shows the level of intelligence you're working with.


Hell... If GZ invoked the 5th at trial... How could his defense even defend him?

GZ's word is all that's keeping him out of prison for a good duration. He's claiming self defense, yada yada, no witnesses to the key points of the altercation save for himself...

So, if he were to plead the 5th, how could they just omit one side of the story and then let the other side of his story stand as far as his defense? That would make no sense at all. If the whole defense cause revolves around how he claims things went down I don't think the 5th would even be an option for him.

 

[TerryMathews]

Good thing I said nothing about the court. I'm speaking in common sense terms. You know. Stuff that everybody knows. It's simply common sense that if somebody invokes the 5th, it shows that they're hiding things.

The situation is slightly different w\ police and the courts. With a court situation a person would already have been accused of a crime and would be refusing to testify because they'd be incriminating themselves...

w\ police officers it could be slightly different if you have a non conformist, anti police type person who just does it for kicks or to make a youtube video of them embarrassing a cop.



No, you're wrong there. Don't mistake me for one of these right wing tools plz.

Why would I assume you were taking about anything but court when you're talking about him taking the stand?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

You know, I thought you had me on ignore since you didn't respond when I pointed out that you were lying about Zimmerman seeing trayvon looking around people's houses.

And this is another comment that shows the level of intelligence you're working with.


Hell... If GZ invoked the 5th at trial... How could his defense even defend him?

GZ's word is all that's keeping him out of prison for a good duration. He's claiming self defense, yada yada, no witnesses to the key points of the altercation save for himself...

So, if he were to plead the 5th, how could they just omit one side of the story and then let the other side of his story stand as far as his defense? That would make no sense at all. If the whole defense cause revolves around how he claims things went down I don't think the 5th would even be an option for him.

No; I have 'Dari' on ignore. Keep it straight.

My issue with your comment has nothing to do with this specific case, it's your overall viewpoint that anyone who pleads the 5th is guilty and hiding something.

 

[TerryMathews]

You know, I thought you had me on ignore since you didn't respond when I pointed out that you were lying about Zimmerman seeing trayvon looking around people's houses.

And this is another comment that shows the level of intelligence you're working with.


Hell... If GZ invoked the 5th at trial... How could his defense even defend him?

GZ's word is all that's keeping him out of prison for a good duration. He's claiming self defense, yada yada, no witnesses to the key points of the altercation save for himself...

So, if he were to plead the 5th, how could they just omit one side of the story and then let the other side of his story stand as far as his defense? That would make no sense at all. If the whole defense cause revolves around how he claims things went down I don't think the 5th would even be an option for him.

What? You think that you can't defend yourself if you invoke the 5th? What do you think those experts and witnesses are for?

I wouldn't expect you to read a law book, but at least go watch a law movie or two.

 

[airdata]

Why would I assume you were taking about anything but court when you're talking about him taking the stand?

You dolts never surprise me..

You referenced the 5th being used with regard to miranda rights in your post I replied to.

Please... Try to keep up. I know these words can get big and complicated sometimes.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I'd find great humor in it if GZ took the stand and plead the 5th.

The 5th by definition is an admission of guilt without admitting you're guilty. No innocent person invokes the 5th.

Here's something you should have read long ago as I know it been posted a several times in here.

http://frederickleatherman.wordpres...ns-for-second-degree-murder-and-self-defense/

You are in an upper level graduate school course so you know this part by heart:
The defendant, George Zimmerman, is presumed innocent and remains innocent unless the jury unanimously finds him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
The defendant has no burden to produce any evidence or to testify in this case. He has a constitutional right to not testify and the jury may not assume anything regarding his silence.
The State has the burden of proving each element of the crime charged beyond a reasonable doubt.
Since the defendant admits killing Trayvon Martin, but claims he was legally justified to do so in self-defense, the State must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not kill Trayvon Martin in self-defense.

 

[airdata]

No; I have 'Dari' on ignore. Keep it straight.

My issue with your comment has nothing to do with this specific case, it's your overall viewpoint that anyone who pleads the 5th is guilty and hiding something.

; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself

I don't know how to put this in more simple terms.

"to be a witness against himself"

So... that would seem that if somebody is choosing not to witness against themself that they possess information which would be used against them, and therefore are hiding such evidence by invoking the 5th.

 

[xj0hnx]

I'd find great humor in it if GZ took the stand and plead the 5th.

The 5th by definition is an admission of guilt without admitting you're guilty. No innocent person invokes the 5th.

W ...T ...F ...!?!?!!

In no way is pleading the 5th an admission of guilt. That's one of the most ignorant, retarded things you have posted yet.

 

[xj0hnx]

I don't know how to put this in more simple terms.

So... that would seem that if somebody is choosing not to witness against themself that they possess information which would be used against them, and therefore are hiding such evidence by invoking the 5th.

No, that's not how it would seem. This forum's collective IQ is dropping exponentially every time you post.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

No, that's not how it would seem. This forum's collective IQ is dropping exponentially every time you post.

Once you realize that these people are coming to conclusions PURELY on emotion, it makes it easier to accept their complete and total stupidity towards the way the law (and life) works.

 

[lotus503]

No, I'm equating one allegation that has no proof to another allegation that has no proof.

The severity of the allegation should not be at issue here.

Here its very simple: its hypocritical to say people shouldn't discuss allegations about Martin in one breath and then in the next start talking about allegations of things Zimmermann did.

Its having your cake and eating it too.

Thing is what Martin did prior to the 26th has zero relevance, he is dead and not the one facing murder charges. If he was alive and giving a different version of events they I could see his past as relevant.

I am not saying don't discuss martins past just pointing out, why trying to use it to justify gzs actions is stupid.

Gz is charged with murder so his past and character are forefront.

 

[Lithium381]

your racism continues to shine through!!! keep up the good work focusing on the facts and not looking through your lens of bigotry. . .

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Just because GZ has been charged with 2nd degree murder doesn't automatically make his past relevant to what occurred on 2/26. There's the high possibility that much of it as well as what transpired during bond hearing will be deemed irrelevant to the case and never be presented to a jury. That is if the case makes it to a jury trial.

 

[TerryMathews]

Thing is what Martin did prior to the 26th has zero relevance, he is dead and not the one facing murder charges. If he was alive and giving a different version of events they I could see his past as relevant.

I am not saying don't discuss martins past just pointing out, why trying to use it to justify gzs actions is stupid.

Gz is charged with murder so his past and character are forefront.

But, you realize that some others in this thread are saying that it's racist slander to talk about unproven allegations regarding Martin right?

Lotus, my issue isn't with you. You and I haven't seen eye to eye on every issue in this thread, but you argue your point with logic and I can respect that even if I don't necessairly agree with everything you argue for.