Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[blankslate]

Once I have all the facts I will decide how I feel about the shooting. Knocking myself out with knee nerks makes no sense.

I will let the police and grand jury do their jobs first.

They way I see it there are enough facts out form an initial impression and to really question why this kid had to be shot.

I realize that evidence could come out that makes Mr. Zimmerman look like a cool dude but it would really have to be some really amazing stuff.

If it does then I'll recant. Right now though it's looking and quacking like the proverbial duck.

 

[Dari]

FL has no duty to retreat. Zimmerman was in a place he legally was allowed to be.

Say it out loud 10 times and quit with your line of reasoning that has no bearing on this matter of self defense.

You keep repeating this. Care to elaborate?

 

[OutHouse]

As somebody who carries it is my duty to FULLY understand the laws in my state and know when I can and cannot fire. It just so happens that FL has very similar in laws.

carries what? a CCW? lol so fucking what. you are no more special than billy bob who has one just like you.

I also have a CCW along with many on this board but you are the only one posting shit like "its a good shoot" You are not an expert on this get over yourself. what you are spouting is opinion only and only your opinion.

 

[Paul98]

You just don't seem to get this part: whether he was smart or not, whether he should have left, or waited for the police and all that stuff does not have a bearing on whether he acted in self defense when shooting. No matter how it came to be, if the shooter was getting attacked, he has a right to defend himself. If the shooter attacked, then his actions are not self defense. What the dispatcher told him to do and all that stuff does not matter if he's acting in self defense. If he isn't acting in self defense, then all bets are off.

This is the kind of messed up thinking that gets people killed. This person provoked an unarmed man, while carrying a gun, after following them walking down the street in a car. This person was clearly looking for a confrontation due to actions taken. If you can't see that you are blind. I am sorry but if you get into a fight while armed, after following them in a freaking car, you have no claim to self defense. I don't care if you were scared that you may have been killed in the fight. That isn't self defense.

 

[Generator]

There are alot of white men running around with guns who think they are the stewarts of society. Armed with fear and prejudice. This god damn coward should be hanged just for the mere fact that he calls himself a "community watch captain". A 26 year old thug whose job seems to be initiating drive bys. Society has been aggrieved and this fool needs to face down a firing squad.

 

[spidey07]

There are alot of white men running around with guns who think they are the stewarts of society. Armed with fear and prejudice. This god damn coward should be hanged just for the mere fact that he calls himself a "community watch captain". A 26 year old thug whose job seems to be initiating drive bys. Society has been aggrieved and this fool needs to face down a firing squad.

Proof positive of more liberals calling for a man's death without all the facts. How tolerant.

 

[OutHouse]

FL has no duty to retreat. Zimmerman was in a place he legally was allowed to be.

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.
Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.


Yea and so was Trayvon in a place he legally was allowed to be.

 

[monovillage]

There are alot of white men running around with guns who think they are the stewarts of society. Armed with fear and prejudice. This god damn coward should be hanged just for the mere fact that he calls himself a "community watch captain". A 26 year old thug whose job seems to be initiating drive bys. Society has been aggrieved and this fool needs to face down a firing squad.

I agree, that damn Jon Stewart of society needs to face a firing squad.

 

[JSt0rm]

You do realize, I hope, that you sound as stupid as spidey...

you arent getting my humor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhBiNx749Zw

 

[BoberFett]

He deserves prison and death. There are no two ways about it. It should be obvious to anyone. And you want to know how you know for sure that you are correct... Spidey is on the other side of the issue.

You're gonna compete with spidey for the Nutjob of the Thread award too?

 

[BoberFett]

you arent getting my humor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhBiNx749Zw

Sorry, guess not. Youtube is firewalled here, I'll have to watch at home later.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

At this point the reporting on this shooting is sufficiently skeletal that I am not prepared to draw a firm conclusion, other than that it does not appear there was any good reason for Zimmerman to have exited his car.

Frankly I think the race component of this cuts both ways. There is simply no question as a matter of statistics that, knowing nothing other than race about another person, a young black man is much likelier to be dangerous than a young white man. The incidence of violent crime among black men is many times higher than among whites. Accordingly, I don't consider it racist per se for Zimmerman to have been concerned that Martin might constitute a threat. It does sound to me, however, as though Zimmerman put himself in danger (and ultimately killed a teenager) by disregarding the direction given to him by a 911 operator. Based on what little we know this sounds like manslaughter to me even if Martin threw the first punch.

 

[Generator]

New title please, "Community Watch Captain murders neighborhood child in a drive by shooting."

 

[woolfe9999]

At this point the reporting on this shooting is sufficiently skeletal that I am not prepared to draw a firm conclusion, other than that it does not appear there was any good reason for Zimmerman to have exited his car.

Frankly I think the race component of this cuts both ways. There is simply no question as a matter of statistics that, knowing nothing other than race about another person, a young black man is much likelier to be dangerous than a young white man. The incidence of violent crime among black men is many times higher than among whites. Accordingly, I don't consider it racist per se for Zimmerman to have been concerned that Martin might constitute a threat. It does sound to me, however, as though Zimmerman put himself in danger (and ultimately killed a teenager) by disregarding the direction given to him by a 911 operator. Based on what little we know this sounds like manslaughter to me even if Martin threw the first punch.

Even absent negligence in the decision to exit the vehicle, tt almost has to be some kind of crime. Self-defense has a proportionality requirement. You generally can't counter an imminent threat of pummeling with deadly force.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Even absent negligence in the decision to exit the vehicle, tt almost has to be some kind of crime. Self-defense has a proportionality requirement. You generally can't counter an imminent threat of pummeling with deadly force.

Not true. The force used doesn't have to be proportional - just that the other person represents a sufficient threat to justify the use of deadly force. It's not as though a peace officer can't shoot someone who is beating the hell out of him with his fists.

This entire case will be viewed through the lens of a Florida court and jury pool, and Florida is one wacky place. I would not be surprised to see Zimmerman walk altogether, though I do think this sounds like manslaughter.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

New title please, "Community Watch Captain murders neighborhood child in a drive by shooting."

That would be an inaccurate title. A more accurate one might be "Overzealous Community Watch Captain Shoots Teen After Engaging Him, and Being Outmatched, in Unnecessary Physical Combat."

 

[Pens1566]

Come on Londow_jowo, spidey...

I'm waiting for one of you guys to say it's the kids fault for walking on the sidewalk.

Well, he was walking on the wrong side of the street ...

 

[ZaneNBK]

Since we're inventing stories without facts I think Spidey killed Paul98 in the washroom with the tinfoil knife.

 

[woolfe9999]

Not true. The force used doesn't have to be proportional - just that the other person represents a sufficient threat to justify the use of deadly force. It's not as though a peace officer can't shoot someone who is beating the hell out of him with his fists.

This entire case will be viewed through the lens of a Florida court and jury pool, and Florida is one wacky place. I would not be surprised to see Zimmerman walk altogether, though I do think this sounds like manslaughter.

I understand the law of proportionality to mean that you can't use more force than is necessary to prevent the harm. A situation where the force used is substantially greater than the harm threatened doesn't necessarily cause a problem, but if often does, hence my use of the word "generally." The law does, however, vary quite a bit from state to state, some having bright line rules (for example, in some you can only use deadly force to prevent certain enumerated crimes) and others more fluid and depending on "reasonableness." Because that is often the case, you're correct to take note of the likely jury pool here.

 

[sygyzy]

Sounds like we are becoming like East Germany.


(back in the days Germany was divided in two sections) Go and google East Germany.

Thank you for reminding us about this obscure subject: The Cold War

 

[3chordcharlie]

FL has no duty to retreat. Zimmerman was in a place he legally was allowed to be.

Say it out loud 10 times and quit with your line of reasoning that has no bearing on this matter of self defense.

I don't know if anyone has posted this in this thread yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QInKKHlB51g#t=1m56s

This is what I think of most times you post in a gun thread.

 

[Ynog]

Tragic incident.

However, none of those stories explains what was in the police report. What is worse is that with one of the party members dead, the only story you have is Zimmermans. That does make the police's job more difficult. Does the evidence back-up what Zimmerman claimed happened? If Zimmerman claimed and he went to ask Trayvon what he was doing, and Trayvon initiated a physical encouter that resulted in Zimmerman having to use his firearm, does the evidence backup Zimmermans claim of having to use his firearm? What the police can prove determines if he can be charged.

Now, if I was the family of the boy, I'd be talking to a lawyer to sue Zimmerman for wrongful death. Given reports of what happened, they'd likely have an easy time persuing a suit.

 

[spidey07]

If he acted in self defense he cannot be sued. It would be against state law to do so.

 

[blankslate]

If he acted in self defense he cannot be sued. It would be against state law to do so.

Mr. Zimmerman could easily have avoided a confrontation with the shooting victim...

If he cannot be prosecuted because the state law forbids it... then quite frankly the state law like you happens to be wrong.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I don't know if anyone has posted this in this thread yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QInKKHlB51g#t=1m56s

This is what I think of most times you post in a gun thread.

I always think of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21gaUp1DvVs