Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[HomerJS]

So now he didn't run like you said

The lawyers have lost contact with him enough where they withdrew from the case. They don't know where he is! Enough for ya?

 

[spidey07]

If zimmerman is squaking to the media it's a monumental stupid move. Anything he says is nothing but ammo against him in the media and the case. I know he wants to clear his name and stop the all the death threats (that won't happen until he is put in jail forever) but this is incredibly stupid.

 

[lotus503]

I agree with spidey07 here in this post.

Forcing people a women who is attacked and being raped in a park to "retreat" first before defending herself is wrong.

If you are being attacked and cant get away, then sure shoot.
If you can run and get away then do that first.


But if you want up to some girl punch her in the face and start a fight, then she knocks you on your ass, you shouldnt be able to shoot, because they got the upper hand and you now fear for your life., without a manslaughter charge.

 

[corwin]

The lawyers have lost contact with him enough where they withdrew from the case. They don't know where he is! Enough for ya?

But I thought you said it was because he talked to Hanity? Which is it now...

 

[HumblePie]

I don't think it should be law to require anyone to retreat first, but I do think morally and from enlightened self interest retreat is a good idea. Taking a human life is nothing to take lightly; even most soldiers have a hard time with it, and they positively know without a doubt that they are killing someone who is in the business of trying to kill them. But a legal requirement to retreat inevitably leads to second guessing the shooter even in the most clear-cut examples of self defense.

Wholeheartedly agree. One should attempt to retreat, but a law should not enforce one to retreat in my opinion.

Again, the average person is going to retreat in the first place. It is not in the nature of most people to fight before flight. Especially when they view the scenario as life threatening.

Establishing a law that forces people to retreat in a life threatening scenario just leads to bad out comes as it has in the past. Again, where is the line drawn where how much "retreat" has been attempted before one can defend themselves with force?

 

[xj0hnx]

But if you want up to some girl punch her in the face and start a fight, then she knocks you on your ass, you shouldnt be able to shoot, because they got the upper hand and you now fear for your life., without a manslaughter charge.

Who said you could?

 

[spidey07]

If you are being attacked and cant get away, then sure shoot.
If you can run and get away then do that first.


But if you want up to some girl punch her in the face and start a fight, then she knocks you on your ass, you shouldnt be able to shoot, because they got the upper hand and you now fear for your life., without a manslaughter charge.

Punching in the face would be considered a felony, as such you could not use deadly force. Stop making shit up.

 

[Fern]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/trayvon-martin-case-attorneys-withdraw-counsel-gun/nMWf2/

Don't think this has been posted. A new witness?

I saw her interview on TV.

I'm going to guess that there was more than one interview or her lawyer is paraphrasing, and possibly embellishing for her, because the only statement that strikes me as accurate is her statement that when she saw them they were on the grass. She estimated that they were 4' from the sidewalk at the time she saw them.

She most certainly did not say she saw the WHOLE thing.

I think I also saw an interview with her attorney (WTH does she need a lawyer?), and if that was her lawyer she has been interviewed by the police at least twice, including the night of the incident. So, her testimony has been in evidence since day #1.

Fern

 

[corwin]

Who said you could?

It sounds like he's saying T is a girl now and Z punched him/her first...I think

 

[lotus503]

Who said you could?

Spidey

 

[xj0hnx]

Spidey

Could you quote him saying that?

 

[HumblePie]

If you are being attacked and cant get away, then sure shoot.
If you can run and get away then do that first.


But if you want up to some girl punch her in the face and start a fight, then she knocks you on your ass, you shouldnt be able to shoot, because they got the upper hand and you now fear for your life., without a manslaughter charge.

The problem with Duty to Retreat laws is this. Where is the line saying that enough retreat was done before force could be used?

Say for example a big man grabs a woman with intent to rape. She shakes her arm a bit to get away, pulls out a gun when she can't break free and shoots the assailant. Most would agree that she made an attempt to retreat. But it is up to the courts to decide if the attempt was "enough" to fulfill the duty to retreat clause. I mean she could have ripped her shirt to get away. She could have chewed her arm off first! Well okay that last bit was a little on the silly side, however that silly side HAS come in to play in past cases. Where someone had their legs broken but was still charged with manslaughter because the prosecutors convinced the jury/judge that he still could have crawled away on broken legs.

There in lies the problem. The prosecutors only have to convince the jury/judge that the duty to retreat was not fulfilled enough. Meaning they have to argue the person still had some way to get away even if that way seems far fetched. It has happened before.

 

[HumblePie]

Punching in the face would be considered a felony, as such you could not use deadly force. Stop making shit up.

See my post below, a bit more comprehensive.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Seems like GZ contacted States Attorney Corey against his lawyers advice and that's why they quit. Even though they haven't been in contact with him the States Attorney office must be aware of his location.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation...thdraw-from-trayvon-martin-shooting-case.html

Attorney Craig Sonner said Tuesday in a news conference they haven’t heard from George Zimmerman since Sunday. They said that against their advice, Zimmerman contacted the special prosecutor who will decide if he should face charges

This is stupid but then again unless the state has probable cause that his use of force was unlawful he won't need a lawyer as he will have immunity from prosecution as per Florida Statute 776.032

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Punching in the face would be considered a felony, as such you could not use deadly force. Stop making shit up.

Negative. As I have said before in this thread, punching someone in the head is not a felony under FL law. The felony battery statute provides that a battery in which the batterer "Intentionally or knowingly causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement; or . . . Uses a deadly weapon" is a felony. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0784/Sections/0784.045.html

Other batteries are misdemeanors unless the offender has priors or batters someone with a special legal status, such as a vulnerable adult or police officer.

 

[HumblePie]

Who said you could?

No the exact scenario spidey posted before is this. Never did I thought I could defend spidey.

I can walk up to someone and start a fight. If they fight back that is one thing. I did a criminal assault first which is true if I shoved someone to start a fight. However, if they get the upper hand and I try to disengage and explicitly tell them so then they need to disengage as well. If they pursue physical violence and want to escalate it even further that it cause grave bodily injury or death then I have the right to use deadly force back. But only if I was actively trying to disengage first.

Starting a fight, getting my ass handed to me and continue to fight still while losing does not give me the right under Florida law to use deadly force. Not at all.

If I stop fighting back, call for help, try to escape, let my intentions known to the person I am actively trying to get away and not fight anymore then the person who is hitting me MUST STOP. If not, they are now assaulting me and are committing a crime.

 

[corwin]

Seems like GZ contacted States Attorney Corey against his lawyers advice and that's why they quit. Even though they haven't been in contact with him the States Attorney office must be aware of his location.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation...thdraw-from-trayvon-martin-shooting-case.html



This is stupid but then again unless the state has probable cause that his use of force was unlawful he won't need a lawyer as he will have immunity from prosecution as per Florida Statute 776.032

Ah so Homer was way of on all counts...and he just hasn't talked to them in 2 days...and they still believe his version of events...so basically they just don't care for some of the choices he's made

 

[HumblePie]

Ah so Homer was way of on all counts...and he just hasn't talked to them in 2 days...and they still believe his version of events...so basically they just don't care for some of the choices he's made

Yah, soon as he posted that I went google searching and found nothing he claimed.

Isn't intentional presentation of mis information such as that against the rules? Especially since he provided no links to his claim.

Better link to article though.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...orneys-withdraw-from-trayvon-martin-case?lite

 

[Londo_Jowo]

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0784/Sections/0784.045.html

Stop it!!! I'm the only one allowed to cite Florida Statutes in this thread..............

 

[RampantAndroid]

Seems like GZ contacted States Attorney Corey against his lawyers advice and that's why they quit. Even though they haven't been in contact with him the States Attorney office must be aware of his location.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation...thdraw-from-trayvon-martin-shooting-case.html



This is stupid but then again unless the state has probable cause that his use of force was unlawful he won't need a lawyer as he will have immunity from prosecution as per Florida Statute 776.032

He's a kid with some knowledge of the law. Probably thinks he can handle it himself.

 

[spidey07]

ONE MORE TIME LOTUS! Just so you can be clear on MY state's laws. I suggest you look yours up as well. Notice the very first section, I can't just punch somebody in the face - that is intent to cause serious harm, I lose any ability to self defense if I do that. The other section applies to "initial aggressor" and goes to the aspect of "provoking use of force against yourself" - this could be verbal threats, etc, pushing, "starting" the fight. Then the other aspects of self defense start to apply and needing to disengage/retreat before you can use deadly force.

It's become very apparent you are quite clueless on self defense laws. I suggest you look at the ones in your state to become more accustomed as well as pay attention to the laws posted and explained here. It's clear you still don't understand them even after I and many others have painstakingly explained it.

503.060 Improper use of physical force in self-protection.
Notwithstanding the provisions of KRS 503.050, the use of physical force by a defendant upon another person is not justifiable when:
(1) The defendant is resisting an arrest by a peace officer, recognized to be acting under color of official authority and using no more force than reasonably necessary to effect the arrest, although the arrest is unlawful; or
(2) The defendant, with the intention of causing death or serious physical injury to the other person, provokes the use of physical force by such other person; or
(3) The defendant was the initial aggressor, except that his use of physical force upon the other person under this circumstance is justifiable when:
(a) His initial physical force was nondeadly and the force returned by the other is such that he believes himself to be in imminent danger of death or serious physical injury; or
(b) He withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to the other person his intent to do so and the latter nevertheless continues or threatens the use of unlawful physical force.

 

[lotus503]

Could you quote him saying that?

Sure when i have some time. I'll go back and find one of the many examples he states even if Zimmerman had started the fight with Martin, te fear of his life allows him to shoot.

 

[corwin]

Yah, soon as he posted that I went google searching and found nothing he claimed.

Isn't intentional presentation of mis information such as that against the rules? Especially since he provided no links to his claim.

I don't care about silly little rules like that...it's enough to have it known they were blatantly false claims...however it should also be noted they both said they would be happy to represent him if he would just contact them and ask...and I would assume stop doing things without consulting them

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I think GZ was upset that States Attorney Corey's office hadn't contacted him to get his version of events as he knew that they were re-interviewing all the other witnesses so he contacted them.

 

[lotus503]

Could you quote him saying that?

this was the first of many times he repeats it.

"It doesn't fucking matter who started it when the victim is on their back breing beaten while screaming for help.

Or are you like others who keep holding onto this ignorance and misinformation if not flat out lies. "

here is a direct link to another one.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=33255804&postcount=12518
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