UN calls on Israel to open nuclear facilities

[Lemon law]

You are correct. 100% so. Having a reactor doesn't make a bomb. The Israeli did that all on its own. The nuclear subs were German built, but no doubt improved by the Israelis. I wonder if LL realizes that if his favored nations were to strike against Israel that they would remain?

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Simply More Haybasusa subject changing. No one disputes that Israel has has nuclear weapons WMD. And the fact that other nations like the US and Germany have a record of building Nuclear subs to further aid Israel's delivery of nuclear weapons against its neighbors.

After all, Israel has a long record of using conventional non nuclear weapons WMD against all of its neighbors.

As the new question becomes, will Israel feel itself justified to be the only nation since 1945 to actually use a nuclear weapon against its neighbors to prevent another nation from achieving nuclear parity. And mutually assured destruction that has kept the cold war peace between Russia and the USA?

After all, once the USSR achieved nuclear weapons capacity and a ICBM delivery system, no one rational in the USA believed the USA could attack the USSR without risking Mutual assured destruction, It prevented a WW3 nuclear war scenario between super powers.

So why EK, why do you think only Israel will be justified and emerge unscathed if Israel uses nuclear weapons against Iran and all their neighbors.

 

[Matt1970]

Well, yeh, but they threw a guy in prison for 18 years as a traitor because he revealed details of their nuclear weapons program-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu

Figure it out. If what the guy revealed weren't true, then he couldn't have been a traitor, could he?

Actually your could, but either way as far as I know Isreal has noit threatened to use Nukes on anyone.

 

[Harabec]

As the new question becomes, will Israel feel itself justified to be the only nation since 1945 to actually use a nuclear weapon against its neighbors to prevent another nation from achieving nuclear parity. And mutually assured destruction that has kept the cold war peace between Russia and the USA?

Amazing. Absolutely amazing. Do you manage to get up in the morning without telling yourself 3 different science-fiction stories every day?
I'm stunned by the possibility that you may be a real person.

 

[airdata]

Amazing. Absolutely amazing. Do you manage to get up in the morning without telling yourself 3 different science-fiction stories every day?
I'm stunned by the possibility that you may be a real person.

You miss the point where israel is guilty of everything we accuse iraq and iran of before going to war.

We simply play favorites because A) high ranking jewish people who put israel first and america 2nd and shouldn't even hold any position in our government.

And B) Some people genuinely still give Israel holocaust pity.

To be perfectly honest, I put the holocaust right up there with slavery. Sure, it was horrific.

But look at the present... None of the present would be possible without that horrific past so move the fuck on.

 

[Oyeve]

I long for the day that the US stops supporting israel.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

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Simply More Haybasusa subject changing. No one disputes that Israel has has nuclear weapons WMD. And the fact that other nations like the US and Germany have a record of building Nuclear subs to further aid Israel's delivery of nuclear weapons against its neighbors.

After all, Israel has a long record of using conventional non nuclear weapons WMD against all of its neighbors.

As the new question becomes, will Israel feel itself justified to be the only nation since 1945 to actually use a nuclear weapon against its neighbors to prevent another nation from achieving nuclear parity. And mutually assured destruction that has kept the cold war peace between Russia and the USA?

After all, once the USSR achieved nuclear weapons capacity and a ICBM delivery system, no one rational in the USA believed the USA could attack the USSR without risking Mutual assured destruction, It prevented a WW3 nuclear war scenario between super powers.

So why EK, why do you think only Israel will be justified and emerge unscathed if Israel uses nuclear weapons against Iran and all their neighbors.

I see that subject changing is now defined as correcting your errors. As for nukes, they will be used when your friends in the region give them the choice of extinction or life, not as a first strike. Since you've already stated that Israel must accept putative terrorism, you won't like that either.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

You miss the point where israel is guilty of everything we accuse iraq and iran of before going to war.

That is completely wrong and as that assessment is what you build your opinions on your opinions are completely misguided too.

Israel has NOT broken any treaties.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

No, that treaty does not affect intergovernmental organizations. (see Article 3)

Period.

No, any treaty entered into via coercion (regardless of who does the coercion) is considered invalid. (this is regulated via the Vienna convention, article 40 something, i don't remember the exact number)

Period.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Treat everybody equally.

Israel lied about having nukes for years. Has been caught spying on us. Has threatened to use their nukes...

Sounds like.... Exactly what our pretext for war with iraq was and what we're trying to goto war with iran over. Except they actually have the nukes.

Everyone IS treated equally in this case, no one who hasn't signed a binding treaty regarding non-proliferation are subject to inspections.

Those who have signed it have agreed to inspections.

This is real fucking simple, if you didn't sign a contract with me paying me £10K for teaching you the basics on how treaties work you wouldn't have to pay me, if someone else HAD signed that contract they would be under obligation to pay me £10K and yet both of you are treated equally.

 

[Lemon law]

Everyone IS treated equally in this case, no one who hasn't signed a binding treaty regarding non-proliferation are subject to inspections.

Those who have signed it have agreed to inspections.

This is real fucking simple, if you didn't sign a contract with me paying me £10K for teaching you the basics on how treaties work you wouldn't have to pay me, if someone else HAD signed that contract they would be under obligation to pay me £10K and yet both of you are treated equally.

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JOS, you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own bogus facts. The only treaties Israel signed were with Jordan and Egypt. But its very questionable if Israel is complying with ALL the terms of those treaties, and Jordan may soon say Israel is in breech. Egypt may also assert the same, but given present Egyptian paralysis, that may not occur soon. However the Jordanian visit with Abbas just occurred today, so comment may be ezxpected very soon.

After that Israel is in breech of resolution 242, the peace map, and not complying with the OSLO accords.

After that, this may be only a dated copy of all the UN resolutions filed against Israel. ( More than all other nations combined.)

http://www.darkpolitricks.com/un-resolutions-against-israel/

I also note I wrote none of this and only did a cursory google search.

It should keep you very busy, JOS, for a long time, to explain away all of those UN resolutions and more are likely coming.

 

[EagleKeeper]

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JOS, you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own bogus facts. The only treaties Israel signed were with Jordan and Egypt. But its very questionable if Israel is complying with ALL the terms of those treaties, and Jordan may soon say Israel is in breech. Egypt may also assert the same, but given present Egyptian paralysis, that may not occur soon. However the Jordanian visit with Abbas just occurred today, so comment may be expected very soon.

do not leave us hanging here.
WHAT TREATY between Egypt and Israel do you state is being broken at this time. And why?

The same goes with Jordan.

Or is this another unproven statement of yours beased on your Xmas wishlist.



By the way; Why is Israel responsible for actions of Iran w/ respect to the ME oil transiting through the Straights?
You stated that it would be Israel's fault if Iran shut down the flow but you refuse to state why.

three questions are in the air based on YOUR statements. Where are the answers

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

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JOS, you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own bogus facts.

FACT: Iran has signed the NPT and have thereby agreed to inspections by the IAEA.

FACT: Israel has not signed the NPT.

Those are the facts, there is nothing bogus about them.

If you want to bring irrelevant treaties into the discussion then do so but don't expect me to respond to your deflections.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

do not leave us hanging here.
WHAT TREATY between Egypt and Israel do you state is being broken at this time. And why?

The same goes with Jordan.

Or is this another unproven statement of yours beased on your Xmas wishlist.



By the way; Why is Israel responsible for actions of Iran w/ respect to the ME oil transiting through the Straights?
You stated that it would be Israel's fault if Iran shut down the flow but you refuse to state why.

three questions are in the air based on YOUR statements. Where are the answers

His kind thinks that everything that ever happens that is bad is the Jews fault.

He doesn't need a reason to think so, it's just how his conditioned mind works.

 

[Lemon law]

JOS and EK,

In terms of Israeli Oslo accord violations, Here is the first google link I found and there are many more.

http://www.robat.scl.net/content/NAD/negotiations/neg_violations/index.php

jos and EK, its now 2012, as I ask is Israeli out of disputed territories or not like Israel was supposed to be in 1999?

A binary yes no answer expected.

And in terms of the Geneva convention which Israel signed, its still defined as a violation of the Geneva convention to settle a single Israeli settler, much less 500,000 on territory Israel can never own.

As I provide the actual answers to the question you ask without ducking or changing the subject.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

JOS and EK

I removed the irrelevant parts of your statement and now i have nothing to respond to.

 

[fskimospy]

No, any treaty entered into via coercion (regardless of who does the coercion) is considered invalid. (this is regulated via the Vienna convention, article 40 something, i don't remember the exact number)

Period.

No.

The article 3 I am referring to is article 3 of the Vienna convention, the part that tells you what it doesn't apply to.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

No.

The article 3 I am referring to is article 3 of the Vienna convention, the part that tells you what it doesn't apply to.

Either you cannot read or you cannot comprehend, i can't help you.

 

[Lemon law]

I removed the irrelevant parts of your statement and now i have nothing to respond to.

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JOS translation, when confronted by factual links that disprove JOS positions, JOS simply conviently ignore facts he can't simply honestly address.

Cheer up JOS, you are not the first, as you remind me of Earl tghe Pearl Landgribe, the the last GOP congressional holdout against the impeachment of Nixon who famously remarked, " My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts."

 

[fskimospy]

Either you cannot read or you cannot comprehend, i can't help you.

You obviously haven't read the treaty you're talking about. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be, that treaty does not apply to the United Nations as it applies only to interactions between states, not states and international organizations. Period. End of story.

The people who made that treaty were so explicitly aware of this that they made a second treaty called the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States and International Organizations or Between International Organizations. Unfortunately this treaty has not met its requirements and is not yet in effect.

To learn more about his read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna...ations_or_Between_International_Organizations

Are we clear now? Before talking shit, make sure you know what you're talking about.

 

[DominionSeraph]

You miss the point where israel is guilty of everything we accuse iraq and iran of before going to war.

We simply play favorites because A) high ranking jewish people who put israel first and america 2nd and shouldn't even hold any position in our government.

And B) Some people genuinely still give Israel holocaust pity.

How about:
A) Israel is a stable, advanced, civilized nation which has shown nothing but restraint in its use of its armed forces against its neighbors, while Arabs are backwards and barbaric and will strike out at any imagined slight.

You don't give a baby a gun. Arabs need to do a lot of growing up before they can be trusted with WMD's.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

174 to 6 is a rather strong message that Israelis can busily choose to ignore at their own peril.

But still, it not a matter of past records, and now a matter of what will happen in future. But to one extent, the tide has turned against Israel, simply because all world nations are looking at Israel and its rather crazy present behavior.

As I will await future developments.

What exactly is the "peril"? Is an invasion planned in the near future? If the Arab nations unite they could probably exterminate the Jews, but it will also result in the Middle East being becoming an uninhabitable nuclear wasteland. If Israel goes down, whether via the Arabs or most of the world uniting and waging a military campaign against it, then the Arab nations will go down with it.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Seriously guys, pull your heads out.

Economic sanctions would happen long before any "invasion". I firmly believe that's what he's referring to by UN action.

If Israel no longer has any reason to court world favor, then they could act like North Koreans and just completely expel the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank. Who's going to do anything about it when doing so would result in nuclear war? (Kind of like how North Korea is able to do what it wants and survive.)

 

[Jhhnn]

How about:
A) Israel is a stable, advanced, civilized nation which has shown nothing but restraint in its use of its armed forces against its neighbors, while Arabs are backwards and barbaric and will strike out at any imagined slight.

You don't give a baby a gun. Arabs need to do a lot of growing up before they can be trusted with WMD's.

Iranians aren't Arabs...

Thanks to their own Nuclear deterrent & US backing, there is no existential threat to Israel from her neighbors. The only thing that's really being threatened is the idea of the expansive "Jewish State", the idea that they can just take what they want from a population they've ruled since 1967, the Palestinians.

Sooner rather than later they'll have to abandon the foil of a two state solution, because they will have made it functionally impossible. At that point, it'll be perpetual occupation or integration of the Pals into Israeli society. They seem perfectly content with perpetual occupation & piecemeal expropriation of Palestinian resources.

That puts the US in an increasingly awkward position, given economic & geopolitical reality.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Iranians aren't Arabs...

There's no meaningful difference when Islam is involved.

 

[JEDIYoda]

There's no meaningful difference when Islam is involved.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: