• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

UN calls on Israel to open nuclear facilities

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
The bigger question is who is selling (or giving) nuclear weapons to the nation of Israel? I'd like to know.
 
Jhhnn said:
Israeli fanbois once again reveal their blindness & hypocrisy.

When the UN wants to impose "additional protocols" on Iran, things they never agreed to, it's a good thing. When they fry to convince Israel to sign the NPT, that's "coercion".

When the US & the UN demand inspection of Iranian sites where they don't even allege that nuclear materials were ever present, it's a great idea, from which enormous innuendo & suspicion, even warmongering is derived. When they want to look at Israeli reactors & facilities, where nuclear materials are obviously present and produced, why, that's just unthinkable.

When Israel threatens to attack Iran over unproven accusations of nuclear wrongdoing, it's a wonderful idea, and the chest thumping is epic. When it's pointed out that Israel has run her own clandestine nuclear weapons program for decades, well, that's fine & wonderful...

It just goes on from there. The penetration of Israeli propaganda, Hasbara, into the America psyche is truly astounding.
Click to expand...

You do understand that i cannot hold you to a contract that you never signed to pay me £10K just like the UN cannot hold Israel to a treaty they never signed?

At the same time i CAN hold someone who did sign such a contract to pay me the money just like the UN can hold Iran to a treaty they DID sign.

This isn't strange at all to me and i have no idea why you find it strange or unreasonable.

Also, international law states that no one can be held to a treaty they didn't sign so you are in fact disagreeing with international law as well as the UN which is bound by it.
 
EagleKeeper said:
Ducking the question:
Why should Israel be blamed for the actions of Iran?
Click to expand...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you ask that side question when we are more talking about Israel stealing ever more Palestinian land it does not own.

But if you, EK, want to talk about Iran, why not if you dare to. What exactly is Iran doing than Israel is not already doing? Israel funds anti- Iranian terrorism while Iran may be funding some anti-Israeli terrorism. Even though Saudi Arabia funds far more anti-Israeli terrorism.

In terms of wars of aggression with its neighbors with its neighbors, Iran has basically had zero such wars in many hundreds of years. Israel has bombed and had wars of aggression with all of its neighbors, As Israel has bombed Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and has sent assassination squads into Ethiopia, Dubai, and countries on two other continent. In terms of Iran, it executes less than 1000 people a year, and most of them for drug crimes, Israel averages over 1,000 Palestinians killed in collateral damages each and every year and that does not count the 4,000 innocent Lebanese civilians killed in the rape of Lebanon, and the war crimes still hanging over Israel head in terms of Gaza.

And EK, by your definition, all Iran would have to do is drop out of the Nuclear non-proliferation and Iran would be as justified as Israel in terms of actively seeking a nuclear weapons. When there is zero proof that Iran is either seeking a nuclear weapon, or is enriching Iran to even reactor grade levels. As Israel keeps screaming sanction and Bomb Iran, and because Israel never signed the NPT, why should IAEA officials pay any attention to Israeli hypocrits or even give Israel the time of day?

As EK, we can talk about all kinds of things Israel is now doing that no other civilized country in the world would dream of doing, or do you EK want to duck the questions?
 
1prophet said:
The scripture also says he would have no desire for women, have supernatural powers and can perform miracles (the so called proof nonbelievers always point out that is lacking in religions today), cannot be killed, will sit in the temple and proclaim himself to be God and many more things, disqualifying Obama and many others.

This is the closest example of what the antichrist could be.
http://www.shareintl.org/maitreya/Ma_main.htm
Click to expand...

True, but if we are going by the actual prophecies then Jesus could not have been the Messiah either.

It's easier to just make sheit up and go with it.
 
Lemon law said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you ask that side question when we are more talking about Israel stealing ever more Palestinian land it does not own.

But if you, EK, want to talk about Iran, why not if you dare to. What exactly is Iran doing than Israel is not already doing? Israel funds anti- Iranian terrorism while Iran may be funding some anti-Israeli terrorism. Even though Saudi Arabia funds far more anti-Israeli terrorism.

In terms of wars of aggression with its neighbors with its neighbors, Iran has basically had zero such wars in many hundreds of years. Israel has bombed and had wars of aggression with all of its neighbors, As Israel has bombed Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and has sent assassination squads into Ethiopia, Dubai, and countries on two other continent. In terms of Iran, it executes less than 1000 people a year, and most of them for drug crimes, Israel averages over 1,000 Palestinians killed in collateral damages each and every year and that does not count the 4,000 innocent Lebanese civilians killed in the rape of Lebanon, and the war crimes still hanging over Israel head in terms of Gaza.

And EK, by your definition, all Iran would have to do is drop out of the Nuclear non-proliferation and Iran would be as justified as Israel in terms of actively seeking a nuclear weapons. When there is zero proof that Iran is either seeking a nuclear weapon, or is enriching Iran to even reactor grade levels. As Israel keeps screaming sanction and Bomb Iran, and because Israel never signed the NPT, why should IAEA officials pay any attention to Israeli hypocrits or even give Israel the time of day?

As EK, we can talk about all kinds of things Israel is now doing that no other civilized country in the world would dream of doing, or do you EK want to duck the questions?
Click to expand...

Iran, being bound by the NPT, is required by international law to allow inspections, they are not doing that.

They COULD withdraw from the treaty but they haven't. The evidence for Iran enriching uranium beyond nuclear levels are well known to anyone who cares to look for them. There is one ongoing trial regarding this right now: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10556544

So... shut the fuck up and research what you are talking about instead of making predictions that are based on absolutely nothing but the deranged thoughts of a Nazist.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
You do understand that i cannot hold you to a contract that you never signed to pay me £10K just like the UN cannot hold Israel to a treaty they never signed?

At the same time i CAN hold someone who did sign such a contract to pay me the money just like the UN can hold Iran to a treaty they DID sign.

This isn't strange at all to me and i have no idea why you find it strange or unreasonable.

Also, international law states that no one can be held to a treaty they didn't sign so you are in fact disagreeing with international law as well as the UN which is bound by it.
Click to expand...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if the bulk of your argument is rather dubious at best, JOS, the one thing you have to admit is that Israel as a country did not exist before May/1948. Therefore any Israeli legitimacy as a country is based on the UN, and as such that means Israel must abide by UN rules its now badly violating.

In terms of the Geneva convention Israel is violating by placing 500,000 illegal settlers on land it does not, that is even harder to argue with. Then there is the international court, with war crime powers. I don't foresee economic sanction or war crimes impacting Israel anytime soon, but still they are held in reserve if Israel does not get real soon.

After that, its going to be about future international actions and not about past arguments.
 
Lemon law said:
Why do you ask that side question when we are more talking about Israel stealing ever more Palestinian land it does not own.
Click to expand...

Actually you put your foot into it. You mentioned earlier about nations not willing to tolerate that which threatens oil supply. Iran has explicitly mentioned doing that, so Iran it is. But let's talk Israel. What direct actions do you see Israel taking to cut off oil to the West? Note "direct". Not "well if someone gets mad at Israel and bombs shipping that's Israel's fault" type of nonsense. Where have you learned that Israel is going to do what Iran threatens. Let's see a source for that, preferably not from your MB rapist friends.

Lemon law said:
And EK, by your definition, all Iran would have to do is drop out of the Nuclear non-proliferation and Iran would be as justified as Israel in terms of actively seeking a nuclear weapons. When there is zero proof that Iran is either seeking a nuclear weapon, or is enriching Iran to even reactor grade levels.
Click to expand...
Yes they can withdraw after one year of announcing it.

Zero proof. That's quite a non-convincing argument since if unfettered inspections haven't been permitted all you have is that Iran hasn't allowed full access to the IAEA, quite intentionally on Iran's part, and that's the substance of that argument.

Lemon law said:
As Israel keeps screaming sanction and Bomb Iran, and because Israel never signed the NPT, why should IAEA officials pay any attention to Israeli hypocrits or even give Israel the time of day?
Click to expand...

Psst, Israel isn't on the P5+1. The IAEA is paying attention to them, and if Israel says anything one way or another it makes no difference. Iran is dicking the former around, and if you think the Jews own those nations you are seriously stoned on some bad drugs.

You have some problems understanding how laws and treaties work so I'll explain it. The compliance of Iran has nothing to do with Israel. It has everything to do with it choosing to sign the NPT and therefore it is bound by it, like it or not. No amount of diversion or justification changes that. They aren't in compliance and that is the end of it. Bet you can't address that without bringing some other nation or group into it.
 
Lemon law said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if the bulk of your argument is rather dubious at best, JOS, the one thing you have to admit is that Israel as a country did not exist before May/1948. Therefore any Israeli legitimacy as a country is based on the UN, and as such that means Israel must abide by UN rules its now badly violating.

In terms of the Geneva convention Israel is violating by placing 500,000 illegal settlers on land it does not, that is even harder to argue with. Then there is the international court, with war crime powers. I don't foresee economic sanction or war crimes impacting Israel anytime soon, but still they are held in reserve if Israel does not get real soon.

After that, its going to be about future international actions and not about past arguments.
Click to expand...

Bullshit. Israel does not have to comply with the NPT which it never signed. Show with UN documentation that your contention is correct. I'll bet you money you can't.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Bullshit. Israel does not have to comply with the NPT which it never signed. Show with UN documentation that your contention is correct. I'll bet you money you can't.
Click to expand...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Haybasusa, if you had any reading comprehension, you would note that I never said Israel HAD to comply with the NPT. Even if I did ask the side question, if Iran dropped out of the NPT, would its actions be no longer subject to international scrutiny just like Israel?

But what I said to JOS was the fact, because Israel as a country was created by the UN, Israel is thus subject to UN rules.

As my other point is Haybasusa, your honesty is rather absent IMHO. Because when one totally different question is asked, you try to change the subject by asserting something else totally unrelated you feel better fits your talking points. Even if your Rush Limbaugh type tactics may impress a few on this forum, its not going to change a single mind in the international community.
 
Last edited:
Lemon law said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if the bulk of your argument is rather dubious at best, JOS, the one thing you have to admit is that Israel as a country did not exist before May/1948. Therefore any Israeli legitimacy as a country is based on the UN, and as such that means Israel must abide by UN rules its now badly violating.
Click to expand...

No, the legitimacy of Israel is the same as that of every other nation, it doesn't matter when the nation was founded.

Israel doesn't need to abide by treaties that were never signed any more than you need to abide by the contract that you would pay me £10K for teaching you this that you never signed.
 
Treat everybody equally.

Israel lied about having nukes for years. Has been caught spying on us. Has threatened to use their nukes...

Sounds like.... Exactly what our pretext for war with iraq was and what we're trying to goto war with iran over. Except they actually have the nukes.
 
You guys are cute, as if it matters that Iran signed the NPT. Zionists would still be getting their claws out and issuing threats.

Israel needs a new PR director, cuz man, they sure are stupid when it comes to influencing people and making friends.
 
MooseNSquirrel said:
You guys are cute, as if it matters that Iran signed the NPT. Zionists would still be getting their claws out and issuing threats.

Israel needs a new PR director, cuz man, they sure are stupid when it comes to influencing people and making friends.
Click to expand...

That holocaust money buys lots of friends.
 
If you want to read what I wrote, I did say economic sanctions against Israel is unlikely in the short term. And as for you JOS, how are all your predictions working out in Afghanistan?

As its going to be the international community that will ultimately have to decide these issues. I will sit back and await developments.
 
Lemon law said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As my other point is Haybasusa, your honesty is rather absent IMHO. Because when one totally different question is asked, you try to change the subject by asserting something else totally unrelated you feel better fits your talking points. Even if your Rush Limbaugh type tactics may impress a few on this forum, its not going to change a single mind in the international community.
Click to expand...

Hell, you are the master of the pot calling the kettle black. You fail to impress anyone, and no I'm not going to change the mind of the international community, and neither are you. Your's however may impress Iran and MB, but few others. Now you have honesty, but you won't like it. You talk of the future, but you have presented an unworkable one where Israel must allow punitive terrorism. Well BOTH parties are going to have to give and as you keep ignoring, Palestinian representatives have expressed support for the extermination of every Jew on the planet. Those are who you support.
 
airdata said:
Treat everybody equally.

Israel lied about having nukes for years. Has been caught spying on us. Has threatened to use their nukes...

Sounds like.... Exactly what our pretext for war with iraq was and what we're trying to goto war with iran over. Except they actually have the nukes.
Click to expand...

Israel has never confirmend they have Nukes much less threatened to use them.
 
Lemon law said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you ask that side question when we are more talking about Israel stealing ever more Palestinian land it does not own.

But if you, EK, want to talk about Iran, why not if you dare to. What exactly is Iran doing than Israel is not already doing? Israel funds anti- Iranian terrorism while Iran may be funding some anti-Israeli terrorism. Even though Saudi Arabia funds far more anti-Israeli terrorism.

In terms of wars of aggression with its neighbors with its neighbors, Iran has basically had zero such wars in many hundreds of years. Israel has bombed and had wars of aggression with all of its neighbors, As Israel has bombed Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and has sent assassination squads into Ethiopia, Dubai, and countries on two other continent. In terms of Iran, it executes less than 1000 people a year, and most of them for drug crimes, Israel averages over 1,000 Palestinians killed in collateral damages each and every year and that does not count the 4,000 innocent Lebanese civilians killed in the rape of Lebanon, and the war crimes still hanging over Israel head in terms of Gaza.

And EK, by your definition, all Iran would have to do is drop out of the Nuclear non-proliferation and Iran would be as justified as Israel in terms of actively seeking a nuclear weapons. When there is zero proof that Iran is either seeking a nuclear weapon, or is enriching Iran to even reactor grade levels. As Israel keeps screaming sanction and Bomb Iran, and because Israel never signed the NPT, why should IAEA officials pay any attention to Israeli hypocrits or even give Israel the time of day?

As EK, we can talk about all kinds of things Israel is now doing that no other civilized country in the world would dream of doing, or do you EK want to duck the questions?
Click to expand...

LL; you keep stating that Israel should be held responsible for Iran's action with respect to the ME oil.

Yet you have not provided any statements as to why; you duck that issue everytime you are called on it.
What Israel does with respect to the Palestinians is completely independent of Iran; yet you want to tie those two together.

I will take each of you statements in this quote and try to figure out how they are tied in.
But if you, EK, want to talk about Iran, why not if you dare to. What exactly is Iran doing than Israel is not already doing? Israel funds anti- Iranian terrorism while Iran may be funding some anti-Israeli terrorism. Even though Saudi Arabia funds far more anti-Israeli terrorism.
Click to expand...
!) Evidence of the levels of funding by country.
2) Explain how does anti-<country> terror tie into the justified disruption of the oil markets?

In terms of wars of aggression with its neighbors with its neighbors, Iran has basically had zero such wars in many hundreds of years. Israel has bombed and had wars of aggression with all of its neighbors, As Israel has bombed Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and has sent assassination squads into Ethiopia, Dubai, and countries on two other continent. In terms of Iran, it executes less than 1000 people a year, and most of them for drug crimes, Israel averages over 1,000 Palestinians killed in collateral damages each and every year and that does not count the 4,000 innocent Lebanese civilians killed in the rape of Lebanon, and the war crimes still hanging over Israel head in terms of Gaza.
Click to expand...
Israel has bombed those referenced countries solely for the reason that she was previously attacked by those countries as a state or by organizations supported/tolerated by the state.

How many Palestinians have been killed because their leadership chose to attack Israel? All
How many Palestinians civilians have been assassinated/executed by Israel?
How many Israeli civilians have been have been assassinated/executed by Palestinians?

Explain how does attacking aggressive neighboring states tie into the justified disruption of the oil markets and blaming it on Israel?

And EK, by your definition, all Iran would have to do is drop out of the Nuclear non-proliferation and Iran would be as justified as Israel in terms of actively seeking a nuclear weapons. When there is zero proof that Iran is either seeking a nuclear weapon, or is enriching Iran to even reactor grade levels. As Israel keeps screaming sanction and Bomb Iran, and because Israel never signed the NPT, why should IAEA officials pay any attention to Israeli hypocrits or even give Israel the time of day?
Click to expand...
Israel is not a signatary to the NPT
Iran is.
Each therefore has it's own responsibilities.
Iran is to comply with the treaty - Iran has not - question is why.
Iran has had plenty of time to reject the NPT and go out on it's own - it has chosen not to; apparently the program is of a greater benefit than a handicap.
Israel is not a partner to the NPT; therefore the UN is not obligated to evaluate Israel's nuclear program. Israel has chosen not to sign the NPT; apparently the program is of a greater handicap than a benefit from Israel's viewpoint.

Some may say that Iran is worried about Israel obtaining information on Iran's nuclear program.
Peaceful development should not provide any concern.

Again, explain how the UN asking for nuclear information tie into the justified disruption of the oil markets and blaming it on Israel?

The UN "bitch slaps" Israel, ignores Israel concerns about her safety, is demonstrably non-neutral; So why are they concerned over what Israel states.
Israel is not advocating the destruction of a country or government; unlike Iran does.

Remember, Israel has been correct on the nuclear ambitions of both Iraq and Syria. Two for Two is a pretty good track record.
 
Last edited:
brandonb said:
The bigger question is who is selling (or giving) nuclear weapons to the nation of Israel? I'd like to know.
Click to expand...

It's my understanding that they developed the nukes themselves, and they are believed to have had them for decades.

Israel seems like a very advanced country in terms of technology etc to me. They seem to develop superior weapons such as fighter jets and patriot missiles, I would expect the same with nukes.

Fern
 
Fern said:
It's my understanding that they developed the nukes themselves, and they are believed to have had them for decades.

Israel seems like a very advanced country in terms of technology etc to me. They seem to develop superior weapons such as fighter jets and patriot missiles, I would expect the same with nukes.

Fern
Click to expand...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For what it is worth Fern, you are 100% wrong regarding the history of Israel's nuclear program. Back in an earlier age in 1950's, the French co-operated with Israel and built and fueled the still active Israel breeder reactor at Dismona. As all of Israeli nuclear weapons are based on plutonium bred and extracted at Dismona. As the Dismona reactor, is at this point in time, is a rather dangerous and antique design with all kinds of cracks in the containment dome. The world knows all about the Dismona breeder reactor , because its a total twin of a French reactor France built and now has retired a long time ago.

The two other things to point out, is that Israel is busily trying to hush up that Israeli workers at Dismona, are dying from radioactive leaks. As the other giant danger lies in the fact, not only is all of Israel in in an earthquake zone, there is now a real question if a 6.5 magnitude naturally occurring Earthquake hits Dismona, will another Chernobyl then be inevitable?

Later French Israeli relations soured, and Israel had to look to new nations to supply it with fighter Jets and armaments. And that has been Uncle Sucker ever since.
 
Fern said:
It's my understanding that they developed the nukes themselves, and they are believed to have had them for decades.
Click to expand...

You are correct. 100% so. Having a reactor doesn't make a bomb. The Israeli did that all on its own. The nuclear subs were German built, but no doubt improved by the Israelis. I wonder if LL realizes that if his favored nations were to strike against Israel that they would remain?
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Yes it does, there is no exclusion for intergovernmental organisations.

A treaty is much like a contract and coerced treaties are invalid just like coerced contracts. They must be entered into willingly.

For example, if Iran wasn't an signatory of the NPT then the UN could not under threat of sanctions coerce them into signing the NPT.

Granted, this is done all the time but it still renders the treaty invalid should the signing party wish to invalidate it.
Click to expand...

No, that treaty does not affect intergovernmental organizations. (see Article 3)

Period.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top