Ultra sues every other PSU maker

[AmberClad]

Saw this over at the [ H ], and figured it'd be good for a laugh :laugh:. Ultra is suing almost every other PSU maker for infringing on their modular PSU patents:

Antec, Inc., Channel Well Technology Co. Ltd., Channel Well Technology Co. U.S.A., Inc., Corsair Memory, Inc., Enhance Electronics Co. Ltd., E-Power Technology/PCMCIS, SPI Electronic Co. Ltd., FSP Group USA Corp., Koolance USA, Mushkin, Inc., OCZ Technology, Sea Sonic Electronics Co. Ltd., Silverstone Technology, Inc., Spire-Bytecom Fanner Corporation, Tagan Technology Co. Ltd., Tagan Technology Co., Thermaltake Technology Co. Ltd., Thermaltake, Inc., Topower Computer Industrial Co. Ltd., Topower Computer U.S.A., Inc., Zalman Technology Company Ltd. and Zalman USA, Inc.

HardOCP story
Court filing

Who's who list of PSU brands essentially. Funny, I thought PerformancePCs.com originally came up with the modular PSU concept.

 

[HOOfan 1]

I don't see Enermax or Hiper on that list. Sure there are a few others missing. Wonder if they are paying a fee to Ultra?

 

[HOOfan 1]

Edit: DP...oops

 

[tomoyo]

Hi Amber,

I'm guessing both of us were probably expecting this as there was plenty of mention from jonnyguru regarding the modular patents from ultra in the past. I guess they were just waiting for enough victims to attack. It's kinda scary to think that we could be stuck with only cheap, but terrible modulars...or somewhat loud high quality, but slightly price modulars with no other choices because of Ultra. I really hope they fail, even if they have some legit claim over this.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: AmberClad

Who's who list of PSU brands essentially. Funny, I thought PerformancePCs.com originally came up with the modular PSU concept.

They did. But that's not what's patented. What's patented is Ultra's use of a DC output interface that allows the cables to be modular, not just the concept of modularity. So Performance-PC's product is not prior art. It's merely a "different version" of the same thing.

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
I don't see Enermax or Hiper on that list. Sure there are a few others missing. Wonder if they are paying a fee to Ultra?

Maybe. Or they couldn't get a hold of anyone to serve the cease and desist to. Who knows.

Originally posted by: tomoyo
It's kinda scary to think that we could be stuck with only cheap, but terrible modulars...or somewhat loud high quality, but slightly price modulars with no other choices because of Ultra. I really hope they fail, even if they have some legit claim over this.

Regardless of your opinion of Ultra (terrible, loud, etc.), I fail to see how even Ultra winning this would mean that the only modular power supply product on the market would be Ultra's. If Ultra asked for a licensing fee initially and nobody chose to pay them, who's fault is that? The way I see it, the outcome of this can go one of two ways: The whole thing gets thrown out, or other PSU companies are asked to pay the licensing fee. If they pay the licensing fee, the cost of the product would go up, but I don't think anyone is going to make them pull the product from the shelf. Well... they could, but that would be really bad business practice IMHO.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: AmberClad
Saw this over at the [ H ], and figured it'd be good for a laugh :laugh:. Ultra is suing almost every other PSU maker for infringing on their modular PSU patents:

Antec, Inc., Channel Well Technology Co. Ltd., Channel Well Technology Co. U.S.A., Inc., Corsair Memory, Inc., Enhance Electronics Co. Ltd., E-Power Technology/PCMCIS, SPI Electronic Co. Ltd., FSP Group USA Corp., Koolance USA, Mushkin, Inc., OCZ Technology, Sea Sonic Electronics Co. Ltd., Silverstone Technology, Inc., Spire-Bytecom Fanner Corporation, Tagan Technology Co. Ltd., Tagan Technology Co., Thermaltake Technology Co. Ltd., Thermaltake, Inc., Topower Computer Industrial Co. Ltd., Topower Computer U.S.A., Inc., Zalman Technology Company Ltd. and Zalman USA, Inc.

HardOCP story
Court filing

Who's who list of PSU brands essentially. Funny, I thought PerformancePCs.com originally came up with the modular PSU concept.

Oh... and FWIW, this was originally posted on jonnyguru.com, and was linked by XtremeSystems, techpowerup and Overclocking.net (graciously crediting me) before HardOCP posted it as news. I don't know who Florian Hauser is, but I don't think his finding this news actually required a "sharp-eye".

 

[Modelworks]

If they could win the suit on modular plugs, then I am going to start one for on/off switches.

 

[tomoyo]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Regardless of your opinion of Ultra (terrible, loud, etc.), I fail to see how even Ultra winning this would mean that the only modular power supply product on the market would be Ultra's. If Ultra asked for a licensing fee initially and nobody chose to pay them, who's fault is that? The way I see it, the outcome of this can go one of two ways: The whole thing gets thrown out, or other PSU companies are asked to pay the licensing fee. If they pay the licensing fee, the cost of the product would go up, but I don't think anyone is going to make them pull the product from the shelf. Well... they could, but that would be really bad business practice IMHO.

My comment was really a quick reaction to the lawsuit actually happening. I realize it's far overblown from the reality. It's quite obvious what will really happen is that there will be either a large payment or a settlement + licensing of the patent to the other makers. Sadly that will likely cause a nice bump in modular pricing.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
If they could win the suit on modular plugs, then I am going to start one for on/off switches.

And so it begins.....

Before you spout off, you should read the patent. If you read it and don't understand what they're patenting and why and why they are bringing all of these defendants to court, don't comment.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: tomoyo
It's quite obvious what will really happen is that there will be either a large payment or a settlement + licensing of the patent to the other makers. Sadly that will likely cause a nice bump in modular pricing.

Not necessarily.

All Ultra wanted in the first place was a licensing fee. I guess most people decided not to pay it. What should Ultra do? Say "oh well"?

This could get thrown out of court... which could possibly end up being the end of Ultra after having to pay a lawyer to raze such a case against so many defendants.

Or, they pay a licensing fee... which will raise prices, but how much? $2? $5? $10? I'm sure some manufacturers will drop out of the market while others will see the niche is still a viable one, stay in the market and move on. Other companies may see this as the light at the end of the tunnel, wait for the dust to settle, what the final word is on the licensing fee and finally be able to factor into their cost of doing business.

Yeah, all of the defendents are going to have to pay legal fees and quite possibly "damages" for unpaid licensing, but we don't really know until this is all figured out by the court system.

 

[gorobei]

Is Ultra's patent/design the optimal solution to modularity or are there other equally effective/economically feasible designs that the other manufacturers didn't bother to develop? Or is Ultra's design just the shortest path between two points and everyone just took the logical route?

Could someone reverse engineer an alternative?

 

[DrMrLordX]

The way the patent system works, something almost certainly could be reverse-engineered. Either that, or they could all go back to single-rail designs. This still leaves the question of if and/or how much the PSU manufacturers owe Ultra for all the modular products they've already sold that infringe on Ultra's patents.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Modelworks
If they could win the suit on modular plugs, then I am going to start one for on/off switches.

And so it begins.....

Before you spout off, you should read the patent. If you read it and don't understand what they're patenting and why and why they are bringing all of these defendants to court, don't comment.

You really got an attitude there.
I was joking, damn, sorry.

 

[Old Hippie]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Modelworks
If they could win the suit on modular plugs, then I am going to start one for on/off switches.

And so it begins.....

Before you spout off, you should read the patent. If you read it and don't understand what they're patenting and why and why they are bringing all of these defendants to court, don't comment.

You really got an attitude there.
I was joking, damn, sorry.

I took it as humor.

Looks like some are lacking!

 

[jonnyGURU]

I know you were joking, but there really are a bunch of threads on this where people, without reading the patent first, have come to the conclusion that Ultra is trying to patent something as broad as "power supplies" and then make comments like "they might as well patent the wall outlet too!"

with your comment, I just thought you were one of them.

 

[DrMrLordX]

It's sort of understandable, especially after the highly-controversial RAMBUS lawsuits. In this instance, we did not have a company seeding patented technology into an internationally-recognized standards board's drafting process, so it's hard to spin Ultra's lawsuit as being an abuse of patent law.

It would have been nice if Ultra pitched a fit about this earlier to ward off their competitors from infringing on their patent so the issue could have been resolved some time ago.

 

[Jessica69]

Originally posted by: DrMrLordX

It would have been nice if Ultra pitched a fit about this earlier to ward off their competitors from infringing on their patent so the issue could have been resolved some time ago.

So how do you know that Ultra didn't already contact each and every company listed in their lawsuit prior to the suit being filed? It'd seem to me that the lawsuit would be the last resort Ultra would use to enforce their patent......the first would be contacting the offending companies and seek the appropriate licensing fee.whatever to address the infringement.

And this would have most likely been done via correspondence between legal departments of the various companies and not in the public arena, at least until the suit was filed.

I always find it funny when a company/individual/what or whomever files a lawsuit over something, such as patent infringement, a lot of people assume the lawsuit is the first attempt at resolving the issue.....which is usually not the case. Lawsuits are typically the last step taken when other avenues have been thwarted....

 

[AmberClad]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Oh... and FWIW, this was originally posted on jonnyguru.com, and was linked by XtremeSystems, techpowerup and Overclocking.net (graciously crediting me) before HardOCP posted it as news. I don't know who Florian Hauser is, but I don't think his finding this news actually required a "sharp-eye".

Sorry about that JG - if I had known, I would have credited you . I don't check your website as often as I do some of the general hardware/tech sites, so I just happened to see it at the [ H ] first.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: AmberClad

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Oh... and FWIW, this was originally posted on jonnyguru.com, and was linked by XtremeSystems, techpowerup and Overclocking.net (graciously crediting me) before HardOCP posted it as news. I don't know who Florian Hauser is, but I don't think his finding this news actually required a "sharp-eye".

Sorry about that JG - if I had known, I would have credited you . I don't check your website as often as I do some of the general hardware/tech sites, so I just happened to see it at the [ H ] first.

The DailyTech news post is good because it looks like they called up and quoted some references (anonymously, of course.) Like I didn't know about the 3x damages Ultra is looking for. YIKES!

Unfortunately, the DailyTech post is tainted by a bunch of noob fan boy posts from people that fail reading comprehension.... you know.... the usual.

 

[Aluvus]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
If Ultra asked for a licensing fee initially and nobody chose to pay them, who's fault is that? The way I see it, the outcome of this can go one of two ways: The whole thing gets thrown out, or other PSU companies are asked to pay the licensing fee.

They may have believed that the patent would be overturned if challenged; if that turns out to be true, then it is Ultra's "fault" to the extent that it is anyone's "fault".

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Before you spout off, you should read the patent. If you read it and don't understand what they're patenting and why and why they are bringing all of these defendants to court, don't comment.

Neither HardOCP's summary nor yours provides any indication of what patent Ultra is suing over, and the link provided by both has a registration wall before you can get more information. I gather that it is patent 7133293 and/or follow-on patent 7313000.

 

[Lithan]

http://www.google.com/patents?...ltra+Products,+Inc.%22

Here ya are. Filed in 2005 Approved in 2007


And yeah I really can't see how you're defending this. I read the damn thing. They tried to patent a circuit board with plugs attached. Yeah it's a little more complex than that, but not much. Pretty sure that existed before Ultra showed up.

 

[Majic 7]

The man who invented the Weed Whacker lost his infringement lawsuit because a judge ruled that the idea was obvious. That has always struck me as absurd, it is a simple idea but did any of the rest of us think of it? I can see Ultra being on even shakier ground, no matter what their implimentation of modular is. If I were a judge I would have trouble finding anything inventive about the concept at all. You are right Lithan IMHO.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: Jessica69



So how do you know that Ultra didn't already contact each and every company listed in their lawsuit prior to the suit being filed? It'd seem to me that the lawsuit would be the last resort Ultra would use to enforce their patent......the first would be contacting the offending companies and seek the appropriate licensing fee.whatever to address the infringement.

Pardon my cynicism, but I suspect that Ultra could make more money by suing nearly every other PSU manufacturer in existence than they could have by making a credible (and successful) attempt to prevent other manufacturers from infringing on their patent. Whether or not they attempted to warn other manufacturers is unknown to me, so I can only go with my gut here.

There is also the possibility that other manufacturers ignored requests by Ultra to cease manufacture of devices infringing on their patent as Aluvus speculated, but still I must conclude that Ultra has acted in their own best financial interest. They stood to make more money remaining silent about their patent until as many firms as possible infringed upon it.

 

[HOOfan 1]

They did warn other manufacturers. Companies like Coolermaster don't sell their Modular PSUs in the US just for this reason.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Lithan

And yeah I really can't see how you're defending this.

Are you CRAZY?!?!

If you quote me out of context it looks like I'm defending this.

I'm not defending this at all. I want this over-turned and thrown out. That's what in my best interest. That said, I do believe in an indivdual's right to a patent and their right to defend that patent.

All I'm saying is that people just glance at the patent.. or don't read it.. and then make wild assumptions about what's patented and the fairness of it. People think it's a patent of "cables and wires" and then make crack pot comments like "I'll just patent water." It's not as simple as us armchair patent lawyers would like to think. I think if it were they wouldn't bother sinking all of the money into taking this to court.

I believe that as computer enthusiasts this is something we should take seriously because it could ultimately mean higher prices for modular power supplies OR nobody making modular power supplies (at least as we know of them today). Neither bodes well for us.