Ultimate fighter vs. Navy Seal- who wins?

[Mo0o]

I was under the impression that military hand to hand combat training teaching a lot about really fast strikes/maneuvers that quickly incapacitate an unprepared victim, they dont train as much on any kind of prolonged fight. And given that a world class MMA fighter probably wouldn't be dumb enough to stick his chin out, give up his back or just be an all around idiot in the first few seconds, the advantage would most likely go to the MMA fighter.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: RallyMaster

Originally posted by: AVAFREAK182

Originally posted by: Raduque
Isn't UFC a tv show like wwe?

My money's on the US Navy elite.

No.

People actually bleed in UFC and bones actually get broken.

UFC FTW.

I'm going to have to say a Navy S.E.A.L is going to make quick work of the MMA guys. MMA guys do train a lot ,but they train to fight. Navy S.E.A.L.s train to survive. There is a huge difference in the training and fighting tactics. The S.E.A.L. is going to go for a quick immobilizing hit, knee break, eye gouge, throat chop, ect. He is highly trained in the human anatomy and knows where to hit strike to inflict the most damage in the least amount of time.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Lash444

Originally posted by: oddyager

Originally posted by: lyssword
One thing missing from equation: KO and Choke. Once MMA fighter KO's the SEAL all his tactics are worthless. The only reason mma fighters don't kill is because they are stopped very quickly by referees. All they have to do is hold on to that rear naked choke for 2 minutes instead of 10 seconds and SEAL would die.. Why don't MMA fighters break arms (armbar) in fights? because they don't have to. They very easily could.

Mindgames? I'm pretty sure most elite MMA fighters know about mind games..

On the other hand, MMA fighters are not trained against a swift kick to the nuts, but they would likely see it coming and defend it

And how is this any different when a SEAL KO's a MMA fighter? Or if a SEAL places a MMA fighter in a choke hold? It's not like either of these fighters have some mystical and magical force that's preventing them from doing any of this.

Thats the whole point of the thread. Forget the "once X gets Y down, its game over instantly". Who has more training in hand-to-hand combat? Who is more experienced with chokes, and knock out strikes? If you through out the mystical and magical points what does a SEAL have over an MMA fighter in a hand-to-hand combat role? The only answer the SEAL supporters come back with is that they have killed before. If you had an armbar or a choke on a man who was trying to kill you, would you let go? If there wasn't a referee in a cage match, who knows how long chokes would last for, or how long a guy would hold an armbar while someone was trying to tap out.

You are viewing MMA fighters in some kind of mystical light. Besides, you do know a real choke, that would leave someone passed out, only requires about 10 seconds of pressure, right? A blood choke is a choke basically everyone in the military learns.
Hand-to-hand combat is not even an issue. Why would you waste time or energy in hand to hand combat? The only reason it may be brought into play is to wear down the opponent. MMA fighters seem to prefer using it to wear down, then move into chokes and their other moves. I honestly think they are going to have it bred in their mind that using their fists is going to be necessary to wear down their opponent in a fight to the death.

All of your posts are describing MMA fighters as if they are some golden figure that without a referee would be an unstoppable machine. What is stopping the SEAL in this situation from putting the fighter in a choke hold or arm bar and dislocating their arm or even breaking it?

Originally posted by: Mo0o
I was under the impression that military hand to hand combat training teaching a lot about really fast strikes/maneuvers that quickly incapacitate an unprepared victim, they dont train as much on any kind of prolonged fight. And given that a world class MMA fighter probably wouldn't be dumb enough to stick his chin out, give up his back or just be an all around idiot in the first few seconds, the advantage would most likely go to the MMA fighter.

I fully agree. In a prolonged fight, one in which the SEAL stupidly didn't run away to get a breather or a makeshift weapon, the MMA fighter would eventually completely wear down the SEAL until he could get a firm grip enough to hold him down until death. But the SEAL is going to be all about pure speed, and if he can get past the defenses of the fighter, it's going to be game over in a matter of seconds.

The most likely course of action would be two or three swift strikes, one or two of which false in nature, with one possibly striking and knocking the opponent down. The SEAL would move in for the kill by snapping the neck. Done.

I don't argue that the SEAL will always win or will win any sustained engagement with an MMA fighter, but a fight to the death with a SEAL is not going to last long if he is successful.

+

 

[Vonkhan]

Chuck Norris

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: CasioTech
http://joatmoaf.typepad.com/i_...mages/USANavySeals.jpg

yeah those guys look REAL tough :roll:

What, so to be tough you need to look like a harley biker?
If those are Navy Seals, those guys are tougher than you, me and anyone else on this forum.

 

[NeoV]

Seals are expertly trained, but if you put them in an arena, made for tv type of match, they would lose most of the time to a good MMA fighter. There are probably a handful of seals who could win some MMA matches, though, but on average, an MMA fighter would win.

Now, if the contest was more along the lines of - which of the two could find a target, kill him without anyone noticing, and gtfo of there - of course the SEAL is the one for that job.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: alkemyst
This thread is nonsense...no fight can be decided until it's fought.

I like how people here think a SEAL is suddenly chuck norris because of a few weeks of training. SEALs get better with time but a pro-fighter does to and does it EVERYDAY usually.

Many pro-fighters would have no problem killing someone, some probably have already done so.

Yeh, I think some people tend to glamourize special forces soldiers and think that they are the ultimate dealers of death and bodily destruction. It's certainly a part of their training, but it's not like they train for hand to hand combat 40 hours a week with other guys that are training for the same thing.

Just because an MMA guy has to operate within rules doesn't mean he doesn't know how to turn them off when he's out of the ring.

Yet you glamorize MMA fighters thinking they are the shit because they fight on TV. I bet before Kimbo should up on Youtube and then MMA fights, you all would have shouted that a backyard fighter could never beat an MMA fighter.

We don't glamorize special forces. We understand that some of the Special Forces, like SEALs train to kill. They don't sit around punching bags, and drinking protein shakes.
I MMA fighter might be stronger, but don't kid yourselves if you don't think a Spec Ops guy is going to last longer in the fight. I watch UFC and some if not a lot of them are seriously gassed after 3 minutes. After 3 minutes, a Spec Ops guy is just getting warmed up. MMA guys train in shorts. Spec Ops guys train in BDU's and a 80lbs ruck sack on their back.

 

[jjanders]

Yet you glamorize MMA fighters thinking they are the shit because they fight on TV. I bet before Kimbo should up on Youtube and then MMA fights, you all would have shouted that a backyard fighter could never beat an MMA fighter.

We don't glamorize special forces. We understand that some of the Special Forces, like SEALs train to kill. They don't sit around punching bags, and drinking protein shakes.
I MMA fighter might be stronger, but don't kid yourselves if you don't think a Spec Ops guy is going to last longer in the fight. I watch UFC and some if not a lot of them are seriously gassed after 3 minutes. After 3 minutes, a Spec Ops guy is just getting warmed up. MMA guys train in shorts. Spec Ops guys train in BDU's and a 80lbs ruck sack on their back.

95% of the time, a "backyard" fighter won't beat a top MMA fighter. Kimbo hasn't beat anyone near top tier, he has some potential but he won't go very far. If he was 10 years younger I might think differently.

No one is glamorizing MMA fighters, the whole reason MMA even exists is because for hundreds of years there was all sorts of glamorizing and mystique surrounding various martial arts, everyone always wondered "Who would win, X vs Y?". This is why MMA was created. And it has evolved over the past 13 or so years in such a way that the top tier fighters - Fedor, Couture, Nogueira, GSP, they have put all the tools together to be the ultimate in one on one combat. There is no mystique or false imagery.

 

[rasczak]

being a former seal I think the seals have it.

 

[jjanders]

Originally posted by: rasczak
being a former seal I think the seals have it.

Fedor vs. Bear

 

[Lash444]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: alkemyst
This thread is nonsense...no fight can be decided until it's fought.

I like how people here think a SEAL is suddenly chuck norris because of a few weeks of training. SEALs get better with time but a pro-fighter does to and does it EVERYDAY usually.

Many pro-fighters would have no problem killing someone, some probably have already done so.

Yeh, I think some people tend to glamourize special forces soldiers and think that they are the ultimate dealers of death and bodily destruction. It's certainly a part of their training, but it's not like they train for hand to hand combat 40 hours a week with other guys that are training for the same thing.

Just because an MMA guy has to operate within rules doesn't mean he doesn't know how to turn them off when he's out of the ring.

Yet you glamorize MMA fighters thinking they are the shit because they fight on TV. I bet before Kimbo should up on Youtube and then MMA fights, you all would have shouted that a backyard fighter could never beat an MMA fighter.

We don't glamorize special forces. We understand that some of the Special Forces, like SEALs train to kill. They don't sit around punching bags, and drinking protein shakes.
I MMA fighter might be stronger, but don't kid yourselves if you don't think a Spec Ops guy is going to last longer in the fight. I watch UFC and some if not a lot of them are seriously gassed after 3 minutes. After 3 minutes, a Spec Ops guy is just getting warmed up. MMA guys train in shorts. Spec Ops guys train in BDU's and a 80lbs ruck sack on their back.

Actually, Kimbo was slowly trained by Bas because he would have gotten his ass kicked the moment it went to the ground and pound. Hes a freak of nature when it comes to brute strength, but he was seriously lacking in stamina and had 0 knowledge of submissions and ground games. I still dont think hes fought anyone with true ground experience, but i dont really watch much MMA anyway.

How long do you think a Navy Seal could hold full size buckets of water to his side? How long do you think he could hold a full size man over his head? I only ask because if you can't tell me this, then how can you say how much energy is expended wrestling another full size man in a ring is going to take? Just because you can run 26 miles, swim 10, or jump 50 feet in the air, doesnt mean that you can wrestle someone for 3 minutes flat out without getting exhausted.

 

[insect9]

Although a MMA fighter is trained in hand to hand, SEALs are trained to fight hand to hand TO THE DEATH. They don't train them to fight until the other guy taps out... A SEAL will hit where it will do the most damage without a care for injury. That's my guess anyway.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Lash444

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: alkemyst
This thread is nonsense...no fight can be decided until it's fought.

I like how people here think a SEAL is suddenly chuck norris because of a few weeks of training. SEALs get better with time but a pro-fighter does to and does it EVERYDAY usually.

Many pro-fighters would have no problem killing someone, some probably have already done so.

Yeh, I think some people tend to glamourize special forces soldiers and think that they are the ultimate dealers of death and bodily destruction. It's certainly a part of their training, but it's not like they train for hand to hand combat 40 hours a week with other guys that are training for the same thing.

Just because an MMA guy has to operate within rules doesn't mean he doesn't know how to turn them off when he's out of the ring.

Yet you glamorize MMA fighters thinking they are the shit because they fight on TV. I bet before Kimbo should up on Youtube and then MMA fights, you all would have shouted that a backyard fighter could never beat an MMA fighter.

We don't glamorize special forces. We understand that some of the Special Forces, like SEALs train to kill. They don't sit around punching bags, and drinking protein shakes.
I MMA fighter might be stronger, but don't kid yourselves if you don't think a Spec Ops guy is going to last longer in the fight. I watch UFC and some if not a lot of them are seriously gassed after 3 minutes. After 3 minutes, a Spec Ops guy is just getting warmed up. MMA guys train in shorts. Spec Ops guys train in BDU's and a 80lbs ruck sack on their back.

Actually, Kimbo was slowly trained by Bas because he would have gotten his ass kicked the moment it went to the ground and pound. Hes a freak of nature when it comes to brute strength, but he was seriously lacking in stamina and had 0 knowledge of submissions and ground games. I still dont think hes fought anyone with true ground experience, but i dont really watch much MMA anyway.

How long do you think a Navy Seal could hold full size buckets of water to his side? How long do you think he could hold a full size man over his head? I only ask because if you can't tell me this, then how can you say how much energy is expended wrestling another full size man in a ring is going to take? Just because you can run 26 miles, swim 10, or jump 50 feet in the air, doesnt mean that you can wrestle someone for 3 minutes flat out without getting exhausted.

Probably longer than an MMA fighter of comparable size. Individuals in the military train for the ability to carry a wounded man for great lengths until safety is reached. SEALs don't leave downed men on the battlefield if at all possible, the only case being the area is too hot for recovery.

I train with that concept in mind, and I'm not even proper Army yet.
You continue to glamorize MMA fighters thinking that no other person can do what they can achieve. What I bolded is far from small feats, but they are most likely NOT something an MMA fighter has over a SEAL. Most likely, the SEAL can hold out longer than comparable fighters.
Endurance is something SEALs have a LOT of. To say they don't have endurance is a laughable statement, considering they train with worst possible scenarios. Put them in light gear, and their endurance will skyrocket.

Wrestlers train for sustained yet short bursts of energy. SEALs will train for mostly lengthy bouts of energy, but also train for short bursts. Endurance is mostly a mind-game with your own body, and SEALs above all train to break their body's idea of limits. When a SEAL is out of energy to the point he can't even run away, that means he has accepted a fate of death. They always maintain an exceptional endurance.

+

 

[Arkitech]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Lash444

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: alkemyst
This thread is nonsense...no fight can be decided until it's fought.

I like how people here think a SEAL is suddenly chuck norris because of a few weeks of training. SEALs get better with time but a pro-fighter does to and does it EVERYDAY usually.

Many pro-fighters would have no problem killing someone, some probably have already done so.

Yeh, I think some people tend to glamourize special forces soldiers and think that they are the ultimate dealers of death and bodily destruction. It's certainly a part of their training, but it's not like they train for hand to hand combat 40 hours a week with other guys that are training for the same thing.

Just because an MMA guy has to operate within rules doesn't mean he doesn't know how to turn them off when he's out of the ring.

Yet you glamorize MMA fighters thinking they are the shit because they fight on TV. I bet before Kimbo should up on Youtube and then MMA fights, you all would have shouted that a backyard fighter could never beat an MMA fighter.

We don't glamorize special forces. We understand that some of the Special Forces, like SEALs train to kill. They don't sit around punching bags, and drinking protein shakes.
I MMA fighter might be stronger, but don't kid yourselves if you don't think a Spec Ops guy is going to last longer in the fight. I watch UFC and some if not a lot of them are seriously gassed after 3 minutes. After 3 minutes, a Spec Ops guy is just getting warmed up. MMA guys train in shorts. Spec Ops guys train in BDU's and a 80lbs ruck sack on their back.

Actually, Kimbo was slowly trained by Bas because he would have gotten his ass kicked the moment it went to the ground and pound. Hes a freak of nature when it comes to brute strength, but he was seriously lacking in stamina and had 0 knowledge of submissions and ground games. I still dont think hes fought anyone with true ground experience, but i dont really watch much MMA anyway.

How long do you think a Navy Seal could hold full size buckets of water to his side? How long do you think he could hold a full size man over his head? I only ask because if you can't tell me this, then how can you say how much energy is expended wrestling another full size man in a ring is going to take? Just because you can run 26 miles, swim 10, or jump 50 feet in the air, doesnt mean that you can wrestle someone for 3 minutes flat out without getting exhausted.

Probably longer than an MMA fighter of comparable size. Individuals in the military train for the ability to carry a wounded man for great lengths until safety is reached. SEALs don't leave downed men on the battlefield if at all possible, the only case being the area is too hot for recovery.

I train with that concept in mind, and I'm not even proper Army yet.
You continue to glamorize MMA fighters thinking that no other person can do what they can achieve. What I bolded is far from small feats, but they are most likely NOT something an MMA fighter has over a SEAL. Most likely, the SEAL can hold out longer than comparable fighters.
Endurance is something SEALs have a LOT of. To say they don't have endurance is a laughable statement, considering they train with worst possible scenarios. Put them in light gear, and their endurance will skyrocket.

Wrestlers train for sustained yet short bursts of energy. SEALs will train for mostly lengthy bouts of energy, but also train for short bursts. Endurance is mostly a mind-game with your own body, and SEALs above all train to break their body's idea of limits. When a SEAL is out of energy to the point he can't even run away, that means he has accepted a fate of death. They always maintain an exceptional endurance.

+

Well said.

I have to say it again that the psychological factor is'nt being stressed enough either. A pure MMA fighter lacks the mental stamina that a Navy Seal has and that will make a difference in a fight to the death. Nerves play a big factor in a fight, a stronger and better trained fighter can lose to a weaker opponent if he's nervous or scared. Scared fighters can make mistakes and mistakes are deadly when you're fighting a person who's been trained to exploit and kill people who slip up in combat.

 

[Sureshot324]

The UFC fighter would easily win. The SEAL's only possible advantage in such situation is more training in things that are against UFC rules, like fishhooking, throat attacks, etc.. but it's just training. Few have done any of this in actual fights.

UFC fighters devote their entire lives to hand to hand combat but navy SEALs devote maybe 1% of their time to it, so I don't see how anyone could possibly think the SEAL would win.

 

[Vehemence]

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
The UFC fighter would easily win. The SEAL's only possible advantage in such situation is more training in things that are against UFC rules, like fishhooking, throat attacks, etc.. but it's just training. Few have done any of this in actual fights.

UFC fighters devote their entire lives to hand to hand combat but navy SEALs devote maybe 1% of their time to it, so I don't see how anyone could possibly think the SEAL would win.

A lot seem to think SEALs are trained in some magic or something. MCMAP and comparable military martial arts can provide disciplines an MMA fighter could have mastered through other arts. The stamina of a SEAL isn't trained towards prolonged hand-to-hand combat, as prolonged hand-to-hand combat isn't a SEAL's career, where it is for an MMA fighter.

Hand-to-hand combat, while a portion of a SEAL's training, isn't what they're devoted to because that's not their MO. They train for a plethora of military tactical focuses that makes them an elite military force, not some monk fighter than kills MMA devotees with one hand or something or that MMA is for play and that the trained strikes and chokes couldn't easily kill.

I'm also willing to bet a lot don't know what MMA really is and have at most probably only seen a few Ultimate Fighter reality show episodes (not calling anyone out or saying everyone has, of course) or what a SEAL trains for in terms of hand-to-hand combat. Thinking that MMA only equals UFC and that a SEAL is Guile or something and wanting the SEAL to win because of patriotism or because they're bloodthirsty killing machines and an MMA fighter is some kid who just knows karate is pretty silly. It's hard to tell who'd win either way, and neither would get dominated.

 

[RandomFool]

I've never really watch the ultimate fighting but if I had to guess I'd say the Navy Seal. Ultimate fighters train a shit load but I'm not sure they train to kill people like navy seals do. Sure they could kill someone but being able to kill a person and being trained to kill people are very different.

This is a bit like asking a art major to answer engineering questions.

 

[Lash444]

So the SEAL is the strong and better trained fighter?

Do you assume that a SEAL is better at climbing than a rock climber, or better at running marathons than a marathon runner? I mean, he can carry 80 lbs on his pack over 26 miles, or more weight up a cliff...surely he has to be better at both of those without them? If not, then why assume that hes a better wrestler or hand-to-hand fighter than someone WHO DOES IT EVERYDAY OF HIS LIFE.

Oh because hes trained to KILL in that hand to hand combat. Unlike every other member of the armed forces who gets combat training. Would you put those guys up against an MMA fighter? Why not? Heres where you say "their training isnt as extensive" If thats your answer, then surely you must think that 1.) MMA fighters arent trained in ways to kill a man 2.) They arent trained as diligently in hand-to-hand combat as SEALs.

Reread the things I write, and the things you write. I don't glamourize the things I say about members of the MMA. I simply point out the facts in a dramatic way. I'm not the one saying that the MMA guy would take a SEAL out with a death strike in seconds if hes successful like you guys are.

 

[Sureshot324]

Originally posted by: Lash444
So the SEAL is the strong and better trained fighter?

Do you assume that a SEAL is better at climbing than a rock climber, or better at running marathons than a marathon runner? I mean, he can carry 80 lbs on his pack over 26 miles, or more weight up a cliff...surely he has to be better at both of those without them? If not, then why assume that hes a better wrestler or hand-to-hand fighter than someone WHO DOES IT EVERYDAY OF HIS LIFE.

Oh because hes trained to KILL in that hand to hand combat. Unlike every other member of the armed forces who gets combat training. Would you put those guys up against an MMA fighter? Why not? Heres where you say "their training isnt as extensive" If thats your answer, then surely you must think that 1.) MMA fighters arent trained in ways to kill a man 2.) They arent trained as diligently in hand-to-hand combat as SEALs.

Reread the things I write, and the things you write. I don't glamourize the things I say about members of the MMA. I simply point out the facts in a dramatic way. I'm not the one saying that the MMA guy would take a SEAL out with a death strike in seconds if hes successful like you guys are.

Nicely put

The SEAL would get his ass handed to him.

 

[ryan256]

Navy Seal wins.
A Navy Seal is trained to kill their opponent as quickly as possible. An MMA or UFC fighter trains to take their opponent down. Not inflict mortal wounds.

 

[Lash444]

If you admit that a SEAL wouldn't stand a chance against an MMA fighter in an MMA caged match, like a lot of SEAL supporters in here concede, then you admit that his quick killing blows/illegal moves are what is making him the victor.
If you believe that a SEAL is going to beat an MMA fighter in a caged match, then I can't argue with you.
If the illegal moves are whats ultimately deciding the match, then in order for the SEAL to have the advantage in the fight, the MMA fighter must not be trained in these moves. Correct?
You must also assume that a person who is going to lose to such moves must not be experienced in defending against them.

Are you honestly going to tell me that masters of martial arts who have been doing it their whole lives will not have been experienced with eye gouges, throat punches, etc? Come on. Id think anyone with a mid-level experience in any martial arts study knows you protect your balls, protect your eyes...

Hell, whats the first thing (possibly the only thing )they teach women in self defense classes? Kick the guy in the balls.

 

[krunchykrome]

an example:

3 fighters....a navy seal, Kimbo Slice, and Fedor

A navy seal might be able to beat Kimbo Slice, but I'd still put money on Kimbo. Kimbo would never stand a chance against Fedor. Therefor, Fedor would ultimatly destroy the SEAL.

Conclusion:

Whoever Kimbo can't beat, the Navy Seal would lose to.

 

[Vehemence]

Originally posted by: Lash444
Are you honestly going to tell me that masters of martial arts who have been doing it their whole lives will not have been experienced with eye gouges, throat punches, etc? Come on. Id think anyone with a mid-level experience in any martial arts study knows you protect your balls, protect your eyes.

Also, a lot seem to think that the various martial arts involved in MMA don't have training that can easily kill, and that only SEALs would receive martial arts training of that sort and are thus the only ones "trained to kill." The training in the wide range of martial arts that MMA fighter could potentially have would provide much more deadly offense and defense than what a SEAL would be restricted to, let alone the amount of time and focus put in to that training a career focused MMA practitioner would have opposed to a SEAL who's training in hand-to-hand combat is a fraction of their overall military training and expertise.

SEALs are not killing gods and MMA practioneers aren't necessarily martial arts gods. No knowledge of the MMA fighter's actual MMA training makes it impossible to even really guess. It could be anything to any degree; some sort of background would be required to make even a guess. Either way, it'd be a hard fight for both.

 

[slayer202]

I voted mma guy, but it could easily go the other way. I am sure the heart/determination of the seal could help him win.

 

[SneakyStuff]

I voted SEAL only because he would be trained to kill, but I suppose it could go either way.