Ugh. Canada may soon have outlawed "scab" workers.

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JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: meltdown75
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: meltdown75
I wonder if you would have the same attitude if you were working on a line somewhere and went on strike only to have some scab come in and do your job for half the money.

That's the problem with union talk on this board. Most of the people that run unions and their members through the mud have never been a part of either. Put yourself in their position.

I'm not pro-union by any stretch but the anti-union attitude here is has always irked me.

If the company has to shut down when there is a strike, that gives the union a lot more leverage than they should have. They shouldn't have any more leverage than they can exert by not coming to work. If the company can hire replacement workers for less money, why should they have to bother with union workers who are demanding more money? This will force companies to pay union workers above market value.
Why don't we just move all the jobs to Mexico? I hear the market value of workers is pretty cheap down there.

Mexico itself is protectionist and don't like foreign national companies creating a presence there.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Citrix
Presidnet Ronald Reagan is needed in your country. i loved it when he fired the Air Traffic Controllers when they striked.

Didn't they just elect a PM that's conservative?!? Or does Congress (or congress-equivalent) hold most of the power there?
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
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Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Yea, unions rock. Several local companies pay their workers over $25.00 to do jobs that would normally pay $11.00. Unions haven't done anything worth while for anyone in the last 4 decades other than drive up prices, force businesses to fold, and drive companies to leave the US. I've been a member of a union and worked along side union workers. The tensions at any union controlled company are a lot higher than a non union company. At one company I worked for, a supervisor would get jumped on if he was within 10 feet of any machine, cart, material, or even tool. I loved watching someone getting paid $30 an hour to make sure a hopper didn't get too full and if it did, then he would press a button then sat back down and slept. I also like how a lot of unions around here protect family members with thick corruption. I worked at a call center that took attendance calls for a large company and saw it daily. The union steward's kid would call in 3 times a week and still manage to get a full paycheck.

It's sad a government is moving to protect an obsolete organization.


So if the would normally pay $11 an hour how were they still in business paying $25?
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Yea, unions rock. Several local companies pay their workers over $25.00 to do jobs that would normally pay $11.00. Unions haven't done anything worth while for anyone in the last 4 decades other than drive up prices, force businesses to fold, and drive companies to leave the US. I've been a member of a union and worked along side union workers. The tensions at any union controlled company are a lot higher than a non union company. At one company I worked for, a supervisor would get jumped on if he was within 10 feet of any machine, cart, material, or even tool. I loved watching someone getting paid $30 an hour to make sure a hopper didn't get too full and if it did, then he would press a button then sat back down and slept. I also like how a lot of unions around here protect family members with thick corruption. I worked at a call center that took attendance calls for a large company and saw it daily. The union steward's kid would call in 3 times a week and still manage to get a full paycheck.

It's sad a government is moving to protect an obsolete organization.


So if the would normally pay $11 an hour how were they still in business paying $25?

hence the "drive up prices, force businesses to fold, and drive companies to leave the US"

have you not been watching the news? manufacturing in the US has fled to China, and the Big 3 US automakers are hemorrhaging cash like an inmate in a FPMITAP after a DA.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
It's socialism at it's finest. The gov't tries to control everything, while giving the illusion that you are in charge.

It's like the gov't saying that you can buy any flavor of icecream that you want, as long as it's vanilla.
 

bluestrobe

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2004
2,033
1
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Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Yea, unions rock. Several local companies pay their workers over $25.00 to do jobs that would normally pay $11.00. Unions haven't done anything worth while for anyone in the last 4 decades other than drive up prices, force businesses to fold, and drive companies to leave the US. I've been a member of a union and worked along side union workers. The tensions at any union controlled company are a lot higher than a non union company. At one company I worked for, a supervisor would get jumped on if he was within 10 feet of any machine, cart, material, or even tool. I loved watching someone getting paid $30 an hour to make sure a hopper didn't get too full and if it did, then he would press a button then sat back down and slept. I also like how a lot of unions around here protect family members with thick corruption. I worked at a call center that took attendance calls for a large company and saw it daily. The union steward's kid would call in 3 times a week and still manage to get a full paycheck.

It's sad a government is moving to protect an obsolete organization.


So if the would normally pay $11 an hour how were they still in business paying $25?

The company suffers and drives up the prices of the product they sell.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Squisher
I believe that all jobs that don't require computer savy should be paid $11/hr.

What if a small restaurant owner can only afford to pay a busboy $7/hour and an 18 year old high school drop out wants to work for $7? You don't allow the kid to work?
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
0
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Yea, unions rock. Several local companies pay their workers over $25.00 to do jobs that would normally pay $11.00. Unions haven't done anything worth while for anyone in the last 4 decades other than drive up prices, force businesses to fold, and drive companies to leave the US. I've been a member of a union and worked along side union workers. The tensions at any union controlled company are a lot higher than a non union company. At one company I worked for, a supervisor would get jumped on if he was within 10 feet of any machine, cart, material, or even tool. I loved watching someone getting paid $30 an hour to make sure a hopper didn't get too full and if it did, then he would press a button then sat back down and slept. I also like how a lot of unions around here protect family members with thick corruption. I worked at a call center that took attendance calls for a large company and saw it daily. The union steward's kid would call in 3 times a week and still manage to get a full paycheck.

It's sad a government is moving to protect an obsolete organization.


So if the would normally pay $11 an hour how were they still in business paying $25?

hence the "drive up prices, force businesses to fold, and drive companies to leave the US"

have you not been watching the news? manufacturing in the US has fled to China, and the Big 3 US automakers are hemorrhaging cash like an inmate in a FPMITAP after a DA.


Rising wages in the US is not why business' are leaving the US. They are leaving the US to take advantage of cheap overseas labor to increase profits.
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
0
Originally posted by: bluestrobe



So if the would normally pay $11 an hour how were they still in business paying $25?

The company suffers and drives up the prices of the product they sell.[/quote]


No, the company raises prices which is passed on to the consumer. Would you be willing to take a paycut next year so your employer would not have to increase their fees/prices?
 

Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
18
81
Originally posted by: bctbct
Raising wages in the US is not why business' are leaving the US. They are leaving the US to take advantage of cheap overseas labor to increase profits.

Please read that several times.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Ronstang
Originally posted by: bctbct
Raising wages in the US is not why business' are leaving the US. They are leaving the US to take advantage of cheap overseas labor to increase profits.

Please read that several times.

lol i had to read that a few times but i still don't know whether to :laugh: or :confused: or :roll:
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
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Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Squisher
I believe that all jobs that don't require computer savy should be paid $11/hr.

What if a small restaurant owner can only afford to pay a busboy $7/hour and an 18 year old high school drop out wants to work for $7? You don't allow the kid to work?


You want to halt the inflation of services you use and deem to be unskilled. Say there are 10 small restaurants in your town, all owner increase their prices across the board because fed. min. wage is increased to $11 per hour.

Will you eat out less, or pick a restaurant that has lower prices? All prices have increased...what do you do?

 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Squisher
I believe that all jobs that don't require computer savy should be paid $11/hr.

What if a small restaurant owner can only afford to pay a busboy $7/hour and an 18 year old high school drop out wants to work for $7? You don't allow the kid to work?


You want to halt the inflation of services you use and deem to be unskilled. Say there are 10 small restaurants in your town, all owner increase their prices across the board because fed. min. wage is increased to $11 per hour.

Will you eat out less, or pick a restaurant that has lower prices? All prices have increased...what do you do?

Start my own restaurant and hire illegals at $5/hour under the table cash duh :roll: pwned

by your logic why don't we add a zero to our currency and make $1 now equal $10? everyone would be making six figures.

you fail at how the economy works and how it expands
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,207
66
91
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Squisher
I believe that all jobs that don't require computer savy should be paid $11/hr.

What if a small restaurant owner can only afford to pay a busboy $7/hour and an 18 year old high school drop out wants to work for $7? You don't allow the kid to work?

Sorry, I should have said "or less."
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Squisher
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Squisher
I believe that all jobs that don't require computer savy should be paid $11/hr.

What if a small restaurant owner can only afford to pay a busboy $7/hour and an 18 year old high school drop out wants to work for $7? You don't allow the kid to work?

Sorry, I should have said "or less."

I whole heartedly disagree. Stripping does not require computer savvy and strippers should definitely be paid (and they are) more than $11/hr.
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
0
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Ronstang
Originally posted by: bctbct
Raising wages in the US is not why business' are leaving the US. They are leaving the US to take advantage of cheap overseas labor to increase profits.

Please read that several times.

lol i had to read that a few times but i still don't know whether to :laugh: or :confused: or :roll:


strike, raising and replace with rising.

The point I am trying to make is that US companies are seeking a quick buck by giving up quality, replacing with cheap inferior products and using their reputation to their advantage. The CEOs are loading their pockets with record bonus' off record profits.

Fiskars and Sheffield knives, Chicago Cutlery, all used to have the highest quality tools in the business, now most if not all their products are produced in China. Yet people recognize those names and continue to purchase those products believing they are buying quality.
 

eakers

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
12,169
2
0
I thought this was a provincial thing? Federally it will never fly. There is no way the Conservatives and the Bloc will let it.
 

Toonces

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2000
1,690
0
71
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Citrix
Presidnet Ronald Reagan is needed in your country. i loved it when he fired the Air Traffic Controllers when they striked.

Didn't they just elect a PM that's conservative?!? Or does Congress (or congress-equivalent) hold most of the power there?

Stephen Harper was elected PM last January. His is a 'minority' governenment that, in a parliamentary system, means his party controls the largest amount of seats in the house of commons (= US House of Representatives) however is <%50 of the total amount of seats available (124). The other seat holding parties; Liberal (103), NDP (51), Bloc Quebecois (29), 1 independent, and 2 vacancies equal our total of 308 seats.

The Canadian Senate (= US Congress) does not hold any defacto power in the legislative process. De Jure, they're able to block a bill passing however this has been used extremely rarely as senators are appointed based on an archaic system assigned in the BNA Act (1867). It's generally seen as a location where Bills can be debated in more detail and serves as the 'sober second thought' to the House-introduced bills.

What this means for the current political state of affairs is that the opposition can force legislation through the house even if this does not reflect the beliefs of the current ruling party.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: eakers
I thought this was a provincial thing? Federally it will never fly. There is no way the Conservatives and the Bloc will let it.
Federal, it turns out. And it's a private member's bill from a member of the Bloc, so there goes that. :(
 

Alone

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2006
7,492
0
0
I'm unionized and I still think this is one of the most retarded things I've ever read.

I mean, what room is there for negotiations on the business's side?
 

eakers

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
12,169
2
0
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: eakers
I thought this was a provincial thing? Federally it will never fly. There is no way the Conservatives and the Bloc will let it.
Federal, it turns out. And it's a private member's bill from a member of the Bloc, so there goes that. :(

:thumbsdown:

I hope we go into a federal election soon. Hopefully the right can take a majority this time.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
MPs defeat anti-scab bill
OTTAWA ? MPs have voted down a bill that would have made it illegal for some of Canada's biggest companies to hire so-called scab workers during labour disputes.

The private member's bill by Richard Nadeau of the Bloc Quebecois was defeated 177-122 on Wednesday.

The Conservatives and a majority of Liberal MPs opposed the bill ? which would only have affected federally regulated employers ? while the Bloc and the New Democratic Party supported it.

Most Liberals backed the bill when it passed second reading last fall, but that changed when Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion spoke out against it in caucus Wednesday.

?It's a shame, it's a shame,? said Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe, anticipating a negative vote. ?We were going to win for the first time, but Dion was influenced by big business.?
Some of my faith in the common sense of our politicians has been restored. - notwithstanding the socialist dorks of the Bloc and NDP, who have lifetime commitments to idiocy. :p Three cheers for equality!
 

mrrman

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2004
8,498
3
0
I think unions are overated...take the teachers for example...2 months off a year and whenever school comes back, they strike. That is BS. Overall I think unions have gotten greedy. If I walked off my job, they would have it posted that day to be filled. I dont get 10% raises, more vacation time, paid benefits...wah wah wah like a union. I used to be in a union, we went on strike for 3 months...I got $50 week and after it was all said an done, we all got 10c hour raise and I lost $5k in the meantime....
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,219
8
81
Originally posted by: Fayd
Originally posted by: meltdown75
Originally posted by: fenrir
Originally posted by: meltdown75
I wonder if you would have the same attitude if you were working on a line somewhere and went on strike only to have some scab come in and do your job for half the money.

That's the problem with union talk on this board. Most of the people that run unions and their members through the mud have never been a part of either. Put yourself in their position.

I'm not pro-union by any stretch but the anti-union attitude here is has always irked me.

So, the union workers are getting paid twice as much as what a non-union shop would pay, but they are still striking? That is what is wrong with unions. If you are getting paid twice as much as what a non-union shop would pay, you have no business striking unless it is related to safety issues.
I was using that as an example and was exaggerating at that. I think we can all agree that scabs do the jobs in question for less money, obviously undermining the effectiveness of the striking workers. All scabs do is interfere with the inevitable, which is the company and the union working out their issues. If unions don't have power through action then they are completely useless. Again, probably something most of this board would concede anyway until their jobs and rights thereto are being protected by a union.

unions are an impedance to decent society.

i say do away with them in their entirety. forcefully, even where not necessary. :p


Boy O Boy I can't wait to get back to the mandatory 60 hour work week.