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UFC 148 (7/7/12 10pm EST): Silva VS Sonnen II

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1) A person who is about to be kicked in the head while grounded, and is not able to adequately defend himself, may not be lucid enough to realize he's about to get fucked. In other words, in many cases where an effective soccer kick is possible, the fight would already be won, and the kick would just be "the cherry on top". There, Big Nog had ample opportunity to tap.

2) A shoulder dislocation is not a spinal cord injury or a traumatic brain injury.
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Great post. This thread goes to crap pretty fast after it.
 
lol Rape isnt a street fight...its rape.
It's what could happen if you lose one. Maybe not to you, but maybe your wife or girlfriend or daughter.

Or if you just get into them for fun, well, you're just a dumbass then.
 
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It's what could happen if you lose one. Maybe not to you, but maybe your wife or girlfriend or daughter.

Or if you just get into them for fun, well, you're just a dumbass then.

hahaha wtf are you even talking about? You think Sliva was gonna rape Sonnen after he won the fight? Or rape his wife? MMA is not a street fight, and not attempted murder or rape, which is why you dont gouge eyes, bite, kicked a grounded opponent in the head, head butt, etc. Even in a street fight, the point isnt to kill and rape, its to kick someones ass for whatever reason. Beating someone up in the process of attempted rape is not a street fight. Street fights are avoidable. Self defense from an assault is not.
 
I'm not arguing what rules should be, I agree there should be less rules and more strikes allowed. I'm all for more viciousness, but that's not what was agreed to. I fail to see how you guys don't understand that. Also, Ns1 rolling like that and taking the shot Chael did is not the same at all.

edit-

noticed after my post that the Roger Huerta KO was posted, I approve of those kinds of rules and I wish the UFC had more similar rules when compared to OneFC. That was one beautifully executed soccer kick.
 
Also, Ns1 rolling like that and taking the shot Chael did is not the same at all.

I'm just saying it's ridiculous to ban kicks to the head or w/e for the "safety of the participants" when it's clear EVERY move is dangerous to the participants.
 
I'm just saying it's ridiculous to ban kicks to the head or w/e for the "safety of the participants" when it's clear EVERY move is dangerous to the participants.

50 shades of gray between being punched in the face while standing and kicked in the head while on the ground.
 
1) A person who is about to be kicked in the head while grounded, and is not able to adequately defend himself, may not be lucid enough to realize he's about to get fucked. In other words, in many cases where an effective soccer kick is possible, the fight would already be won, and the kick would just be "the cherry on top". There, Big Nog had ample opportunity to tap.

2) A shoulder dislocation is not a spinal cord injury or a traumatic brain injury.
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It was actually a broken humerus.

And I am fine with the current rule set. It has been hard enough to get sanctioned in most states. The human cock fighting stigma is slowly going too. All necessary for the sport to keep growing.

The refs do a good job overall, of calling the fights well. There will always be bad judgments, it is human nature to err. Would have preferred Silva was deducted a point for the violations of shorts pulling and rubbing the vaseline around. Could have changed the complexion of the fight if Chael had the 2nd wrapped up due to the deductions. Might not have tried that wild spin.

For myself, the judging is what needs overhauling the most. The reffing is usually about as good as you can expect for such a dynamic sport. But the judging is forked. Takedowns are given far too much weight, knockdowns too little, and most judges lack the necessary knowledge to understand when the guy on the bottom is actually winning.

Torres v. Mighty mouse was a prime example. Anyone that rolls knows damn well who was getting it done better, controlling posture, aggressively attacking, and avoiding the most threats. All MM did was lay there and defend subs. Torres was actively attacking, avoiding damage, and controlling MM's posture most the time. A guy should not have to expose himself looking for a sweep or escape just because the guy on top is somehow thought to automatically be winning. Particularly when you are very nearly sinking subs and have a good attack game from guard.
 
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For myself, the judging is what needs overhauling the most. The reffing is usually about as good as you can expect for such a dynamic sport. But the judging is forked. Takedowns are given far too much weight, knockdowns too little, and most judges lack the necessary knowledge to understand when the guy on the bottom is actually winning.

agreed. I have seen fights where one gets a take down in the last 20 seconds and wins the round. Even when he was getting his ass kicked the other 4:40 seconds.

Same with LNP. if you get down and do nothing but lay on them and hand fight. then you don't deserve the round either. score it 9-9. Just because you are on top does not mean you are in control. I wouldn't want to be on top of some guys because they are great at BJJ.

Judging is the bad part. I have seen a few fights i scored totally different (and many agreed with me).
 
It was actually a broken humerus.

And I am fine with the current rule set. It has been hard enough to get sanctioned in most states. The human cock fighting stigma is slowly going too. All necessary for the sport to keep growing.

The refs do a good job overall, of calling the fights well. There will always be bad judgments, it is human nature to err. Would have preferred Silva was deducted a point for the violations of shorts pulling and rubbing the vaseline around. Could have changed the complexion of the fight if Chael had the 2nd wrapped up due to the deductions. Might not have tried that wild spin.

For myself, the judging is what needs overhauling the most. The reffing is usually about as good as you can expect for such a dynamic sport. But the judging is forked. Takedowns are given far too much weight, knockdowns too little, and most judges lack the necessary knowledge to understand when the guy on the bottom is actually winning.

Torres v. Mighty mouse was a prime example. Anyone that rolls knows damn well who was getting it done better, controlling posture, aggressively attacking, and avoiding the most threats. All MM did was lay there and defend subs. Torres was actively attacking, avoiding damage, and controlling MM's posture most the time. A guy should not have to expose himself looking for a sweep or escape just because the guy on top is somehow thought to automatically be winning. Particularly when you are very nearly sinking subs and have a good attack game from guard.

They have been slowly chancing the rules to favor standup and wrestling for marketing reasons.
 
I'm just saying it's ridiculous to ban kicks to the head or w/e for the "safety of the participants" when it's clear EVERY move is dangerous to the participants.

In Pride soccer kicks to the head are allowed.

Certain moves jeopardize fighters more than others. Yes, the intent is to do damage and win the fight, but certain moves have an enhanced ability to kill, brain damage, paralyze or otherwise irreparably maim the fighters. These are athletes participating in a sport. Soccer kicking a head, stomping a face, etc does not lend to longevity in a fighter.
 
hahaha wtf are you even talking about? You think Sliva was gonna rape Sonnen after he won the fight? Or rape his wife? MMA is not a street fight, and not attempted murder or rape, which is why you dont gouge eyes, bite, kicked a grounded opponent in the head, head butt, etc. Even in a street fight, the point isnt to kill and rape, its to kick someones ass for whatever reason. Beating someone up in the process of attempted rape is not a street fight. Street fights are avoidable. Self defense from an assault is not.
Are you retarded or did you think I was the guy who wanted to allow all this lethal shit in the octagon?
 
agreed. I have seen fights where one gets a take down in the last 20 seconds and wins the round. Even when he was getting his ass kicked the other 4:40 seconds.

Same with LNP. if you get down and do nothing but lay on them and hand fight. then you don't deserve the round either. score it 9-9. Just because you are on top does not mean you are in control. I wouldn't want to be on top of some guys because they are great at BJJ.

Judging is the bad part. I have seen a few fights i scored totally different (and many agreed with me).
Yep, Machida is my favorite fighter, but Shogun won that first fight beyond reasonable doubt.


They have been slowly chancing the rules to favor standup and wrestling for marketing reasons.
I understand sort of. College wrestling is finally the feeder system for a pro sport. Favoring their strengths helps them make the transition. But if they are going to reward stand up they need to reward knockdowns better. Like every stand up sports already does. When you dropped a guy twice in 1 round, and he wins the round because he took you down once, it is pure silliness.
 
Yep, Machida is my favorite fighter, but Shogun won that first fight beyond reasonable doubt.


I understand sort of. College wrestling is finally the feeder system for a pro sport. Favoring their strengths helps them make the transition. But if they are going to reward stand up they need to reward knockdowns better. Like every stand up sports already does. When you dropped a guy twice in 1 round, and he wins the round because he took you down once, it is pure silliness.

true.

But like in take downs not all knockdowns should be counted. If you hit a guy he falls and pops right back up or you take a guy down and again he pops right back up then it shouldn't count.

now 2 knockdowns in 1 round? or 2 quick takedowns in 1 round? yes.
 
In Pride soccer kicks to the head are were allowed.

Certain moves jeopardize fighters more than others. Yes, the intent is to do damage and win the fight, but certain moves have an enhanced ability to kill, brain damage, paralyze or otherwise irreparably maim the fighters. These are athletes participating in a sport. Soccer kicking a head, stomping a face, etc does not lend to longevity in a fighter.
Agreed. The just bleed crowd need to understand that these athletes want to make a living from the sport. The large majority of them are not complaining about the lack of soccer kicks and stomps.

I completely disagree with Rogan about 12-6 elbows too. He goes on about how they outlawed them because of demos were dudes break ice with them. That is not really the reason. A guy like Bones hitting you at the base of the skull and C1 with a 12-6 would be very bad. Since dudes hang on to singles and doubles, and use them for control, position, and transition, they are exposed too long. Just is not worth the risk to these fighters long term well being. I would be ok with them from mount though. You can always tap if one good one is too much. See Jones v. Hamill. With the spine 1 can already be too many.
 
In Pride soccer kicks to the head are allowed.

Certain moves jeopardize fighters more than others. Yes, the intent is to do damage and win the fight, but certain moves have an enhanced ability to kill, brain damage, paralyze or otherwise irreparably maim the fighters. These are athletes participating in a sport. Soccer kicking a head, stomping a face, etc does not lend to longevity in a fighter.

While it is technically a "sport", I don't think anyone gives a fck about the longevity of a fighter aside from marketing reasons. People just want to see some good brutality from two willing participants, gladiator style. If someone gets stomped out and turns into a vegetable, then another will take his place. Marketing a name is really the only argument for longevity, hidden behind the ruse of a "sport". As others have said, you cannot be successful at marketing unless it's watered down for the masses, hence the rules - parents aren't going to buy a PPV for their kids if it's brutal. Now if it has "rules", and it's now a "sport"; that's much easier to market than say, vale tudo. However, science (i.e. studies on CTE) will eventually catch up and all head shots will be banned in order to keep saying it's a "sport" that looks out for "longevity" of its fighters.

Cash rules everything around me.
 
Agreed. The just bleed crowd need to understand that these athletes want to make a living from the sport. The large majority of them are not complaining about the lack of soccer kicks and stomps.

I completely disagree with Rogan about 12-6 elbows too. He goes on about how they outlawed them because of demos were dudes break ice with them. That is not really the reason. A guy like Bones hitting you at the base of the skull and C1 with a 12-6 would be very bad. Since dudes hang on to singles and doubles, and use them for control, position, and transition, they are exposed too long. Just is not worth the risk to these fighters long term well being. I would be ok with them from mount though. You can always tap if one good one is too much. See Jones v. Hamill. With the spine 1 can already be too many.

It's professional fighting, if you're worried about getting hurt I suggest getting a different profession. If I liked fighting and getting hurt, I would be a fighter by profession, but I don't so I do other shit. They chose it, they can deal with it seeing as we're the people who pay to watch.
 
While it is technically a "sport", I don't think anyone gives a fck about the longevity of a fighter aside from marketing reasons. People just want to see some good brutality from two willing participants, gladiator style. If someone gets stomped out and turns into a vegetable, then another will take his place. Marketing a name is really the only argument for longevity, hidden behind the ruse of a "sport". As others have said, you cannot be successful at marketing unless it's watered down for the masses, hence the rules - parents aren't going to buy a PPV for their kids if it's brutal. Now if it has "rules", and it's now a "sport"; that's much easier to market than say, vale tudo. However, science (i.e. studies on CTE) will eventually catch up and all head shots will be banned in order to keep saying it's a "sport" that looks out for "longevity" of its fighters.

Cash rules everything around me.

..wow..
 
true.

But like in take downs not all knockdowns should be counted. If you hit a guy he falls and pops right back up .
That is tricky there. Popping right back up is often more instinct than lack of being on queer street. Now, if it is an obvious slip or off balance kind of thing, then certainly. Stand up sports, the guys usually take as much time as they can to recover. MMA does not have that luxury.
 
It's professional fighting, if you're worried about getting hurt I suggest getting a different profession. If I liked fighting and getting hurt, I would be a fighter by profession, but I don't so I do other shit. They chose it, they can deal with it seeing as we're the people who pay to watch.

this
 
It's professional fighting, if you're worried about getting hurt I suggest getting a different profession. If I liked fighting and getting hurt, I would be a fighter by profession, but I don't so I do other shit. They chose it, they can deal with it seeing as we're the people who pay to watch.

rules are there for a reason. i don't have issue with them being in place for safety. things like hits to the back of the head and head kicks make sense. i want to see a good fight not a murder. i don't want to see someone paralyzed or such.
 

What part did you disagree with? Eventually all contact sports will have to defend against brain science and the impact of headshots which lead to CTE - we are seeing boxers, NFL, and NHL players end up dead or in prison due to mental issues caused by trauma to the head. UFC is a multimillion dollar machine now and if you think it's not susceptible to the masses' money then you need to read a study on what the demographic is for PPV MMA. Nobody wants their kid to end up dead or in prison, something has to give. We are already seeing it with the NFL.
 
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