UFC 128: Shogun vs Jon Jones

[QueBert]

You know that betting lines have nothing to do with who is better right? It is to encourage betting so that the casino makes money either way the fight goes.

The betting lines are set based off many factors, they don't just randomly make shit up. Based off your logic here it doesn't even matter how they set them. Maybe they just draw numbers from a hat? Jones is the favorite here, and he should be.

 

[ctark]

So how come 95% of other fighters can at least shake the guy's hand and say "good fight" or something? I forgot, JJ is "special" and the next Anderson Silva, GSP, and Muhammad Ali all rolled into one, and doesn't have to follow the same social rules as the other guys.

You say "good fight" after the fight, not before. Different strokes for different folks. To be a fighter you need to be confident and cocky. Look at Sonnen, BJ Penn, Koscheck, and many others. Does Jones go to the lengths that some of the other trash talkers do? So far he hasn't even come close.

I will also tell you that many people are in Jon Jones ear. He has the chance of a lifetime to become one of the "company" men. He could be one of the faces of the UFC. My point is people like Koscheck mainly do what they do the SELL a fight. They are doing it for the company, and most people just don't realize it. Fighters being friendly and shaking hands don't sell fights, and they don't hype it. Most fighters know if their opponent respects them or not, they don't need to be friendly to validate that respect before a fight.

Some of the all time greats were trash talkers. Ali, and Jordan (to his opponents).


I honestly don't think Shogun has much of a chance. He likes to be aggressive and I don't think you can take that approach with Jon Jones. Shoguns wrestling is also not that great. Shogun wasn't considered "the best" until the Machida fight, and that win got him many bandwagon followers. Shogun is also coming off a injury and a long recovery. While Jones just fought last month, and took no damage. Jones was already in fighting shape, and with Greg Jackson coaching him I think its safe to say he didn't let Jones over train for this short notice fight. Shogun has a punchers chance, and he might get a submission while he's getting pounded on the ground due to the inexperience of Jones. But most likely he will get dominated the whole fight, he's just physically outmatched.

84 inches, it make a difference.

 

[Woosta]

You say "good fight" after the fight, not before. Different strokes for different folks. To be a fighter you need to be confident and cocky. Look at Sonnen, BJ Penn, Koscheck, and many others. Does Jones go to the lengths that some of the other trash talkers do? So far he hasn't even come close.

I will also tell you that many people are in Jon Jones ear. He has the chance of a lifetime to become one of the "company" men. He could be one of the faces of the UFC. My point is people like Koscheck mainly do what they do the SELL a fight. They are doing it for the company, and most people just don't realize it. Fighters being friendly and shaking hands don't sell fights, and they don't hype it. Most fighters know if their opponent respects them or not, they don't need to be friendly to validate that respect before a fight.

Some of the all time greats were trash talkers. Ali, and Jordan (to his opponents).


I honestly don't think Shogun has much of a chance. He likes to be aggressive and I don't think you can take that approach with Jon Jones. Shoguns wrestling is also not that great. Shogun wasn't considered "the best" until the Machida fight, and that win got him many bandwagon followers. Shogun is also coming off a injury and a long recovery. While Jones just fought last month, and took no damage. Jones was already in fighting shape, and with Greg Jackson coaching him I think its safe to say he didn't let Jones over train for this short notice fight. Shogun has a punchers chance, and he might get a submission while he's getting pounded on the ground due to the inexperience of Jones. But most likely he will get dominated the whole fight, he's just physically outmatched.

84 inches, it make a difference.

For the majority sure, but I believed Shogun was #1 LHW for the last 3.5 years.

I'll absolutely be disgusted if anyone on this thread jumps on the Shogun bandwagon if he wins.

And if Bones does win I'll give him his props, but I was on the Bones bandwagon at least 2 years ago so I hope no one is dumb enough to call me out on that.

 

[ajskydiver]

And if Bones does win I'll give him his props, but I was on the Bones bandwagon at least 2 years ago so I hope no one is dumb enough to call me out on that.

The best thing about Jones winning will be that you'll have a new hero to worship and I'm looking forward to your new avatar as well.

You're really sitting on the fence. Yes, you think Shogun will win...but hey, you've also been one of the first to recognize Bones over two years ago so if he wins, you've known his potential greatness for two years. Wow, impressive.

Oh, and awhile back you said something like (paraphrasing here)...If Jones wins, he could go on to be the GOAT LHW...and Shogun will then be the 2nd GOAT. You do know what GOAT means, right? It's "Greatest"...so there really can't be two.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Further proof that you are an idiot. You find some pics some idiot cleverly framed on Sherdog and call Jones a disrespectful idiot and that's "The Truth". Jones shook his hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDmEdk3U8yI

 

[ctark]

For the majority sure, but I believed Shogun was #1 LHW for the last 3.5 years.

I'll absolutely be disgusted if anyone on this thread jumps on the Shogun bandwagon if he wins.

And if Bones does win I'll give him his props, but I was on the Bones bandwagon at least 2 years ago so I hope no one is dumb enough to call me out on that.

How in the hell can you say he's been the best in the last 3.5 years? Who did he beat besides Machida?

I know I know.. Liddell, do we even need to explain why this isn't that great of a win?

Wait, now you are gonna say Coleman, who hadn't fought in a VERY long time and is way past his prime.

Before that he got beat my Forrest Griffin, and he does have a loss to Machida, but many thought he won that fight so we wont count that one.

Shogun hasn't done anything to prove his greatness. Sure he beat Machida, but everybody has their kryptonite and he just matches up well with Machida. His last good win besides Machida was back in 2005 against Rampage.

Woosta, you are one of the worst MMA fans. You try to set yourself up so that no matter what, you are right. Who cares if you knew about Jon Jones before anybody else did. That doesn't make you any bigger fan than anybody who found out about him 2 fights ago.

You lack objectivity when it comes to MMA. I'm a fan of many fighters, but I also admit it when I know my fighter is probably not going to win.

Stay off sherdog.

 

[DangerAardvark]

For the majority sure, but I believed Shogun was #1 LHW for the last 3.5 years.

I'll absolutely be disgusted if anyone on this thread jumps on the Shogun bandwagon if he wins.

And if Bones does win I'll give him his props, but I was on the Bones bandwagon at least 2 years ago so I hope no one is dumb enough to call me out on that.

You mean you're disgusted by people who change their opinions to reflect reality? Go fuck yourself.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

You mean you're disgusted by people who change their opinions to reflect reality? Go fuck yourself.

No doubt. Winning = more fans. He must not really keep up with MMA as much as he wants us to believe. :awe:

 

[DangerAardvark]

No doubt. Winning = more fans. He must not really keep up with MMA as much as he wants us to believe. :awe:

Not only that, but being the first guy to beat Jon Jones is a huge accomplishment. It's exactly the kind of win that SHOULD change your mind about Shogun.

 

[Jules]

Stay off sherdog.

Likewise.

 

[Wingznut]

Woosta, you are one of the worst MMA fans.

Too obsessed with arguing about who's greatest, about who he ranks higher than someone else, and pretty much any kind of semantics. Not to mention posting pics/gifs.

Just appreciate the beauty of the sport, instead of looking for arguments or to prove your an opinion as fact. 90% of the stuff posted about this stuff is subjective anyway... It's really ok if someone else has a different opinion.

 

[LookBehindYou]

It really amazes me how many people are just counting shogun out. People need to start recognizing everything he's done. He has really had only one bad showing, against griffin, which he lost because of bad cardio. He didnt look the greatest against coleman, but again it was just a cardio issue. I think as long as his cardio is there Shogun takes it. There is no reason to doubt him. And another thing, Jones is nuts if he thinks he's gonna win this one in the clinch.

War Shogun.

 

[ctark]

It really amazes me how many people are just counting shogun out. People need to start recognizing everything he's done. He has really had only one bad showing, against griffin, which he lost because of bad cardio. He didnt look the greatest against coleman, but again it was just a cardio issue. I think as long as his cardio is there Shogun takes it. There is no reason to doubt him. And another thing, Jones is nuts if he thinks he's gonna win this one in the clinch.

War Shogun.

In this situation it is pretty easy to count shogun out. He hasn't fought in a long time, and although Jones cardio hasn't been tested, he barely breaks a sweat in some of his fights.

Shogun relies heavily on leg sweeps to take his opponents down. I don't think he's going to be able to do it with Jones, and I doubt he wants to take the fight to the ground anyways.

Shogun has two weapons
Striking (but its nullified by Jones reach, his wingspan is probably a foot longer)
BJJ (if he's going to win the fight I really believe he might just catch Jones while Jones is pounding on him on the ground)

We'll see Saturday night. If Shogun can pull it off in convincing fashion I'll definitely give him props. Winning the Title is one thing, but keeping it is another. Most people forget this is his first title defense.

 

[Pantlegz]

For the majority sure, but I believed Shogun was #1 LHW for the last 3.5 years.

I'll absolutely be disgusted if anyone on this thread jumps on the Shogun bandwagon if he wins.

And if Bones does win I'll give him his props, but I was on the Bones bandwagon at least 2 years ago so I hope no one is dumb enough to call me out on that.

So as long as I say every new fighter is good and has a chance at becoming the champ of their weight division I'm covered? Good idea, I'll start doing that and no matter what people can't tell me I was wrong, or jumped on the bandwagon because I was there from the start.

 

[shopbruin]

Too obsessed with arguing about who's greatest, about who he ranks higher than someone else, and pretty much any kind of semantics. Not to mention posting pics/gifs.

Just appreciate the beauty of the sport, instead of looking for arguments or to prove your an opinion as fact. 90% of the stuff posted about this stuff is subjective anyway... It's really ok if someone else has a different opinion.

No, Woosta is ALWAYS right, as are 99% of the other morons on Sherdog.

Shogun was not the best LHW the past 3.5 years.

No, I'm not jumping on the Shogun bandwagon. I respect the hell out of him though, but I'm not going to say Shogun is the best ever, as Woosta has in this thread, nonfrigginstop. It's almost as bad as his Fedor obsession.

 

[TheNinja]

No, Woosta is ALWAYS right, as are 99% of the other morons on Sherdog.

Shogun was not the best LHW the past 3.5 years.

No, I'm not jumping on the Shogun bandwagon. I respect the hell out of him though, but I'm not going to say Shogun is the best ever, as Woosta has in this thread, nonfrigginstop. It's almost as bad as his Fedor obsession.

I agree. That distinction belongs to Chuck Liddell. - Well maybe 4.5-1.5 years ago. The last few years haven't been nice to him.

 

[Woosta]

165 replies so far and this is before the event happens

 

[wheresmybacon]

How in the hell can you say he's been the best in the last 3.5 years? Who did he beat besides Machida?

When it comes to MMA, Woosta is about as objective as that crazy drunk dad @ the little league games who thinks his kid is going to be the next Albert Pujols.

Shogun is a good fighter, but it's not out of the question that he could go the way of Big Nog; dominant in Pride, bordering on yawn-worthy in the UFC.

This is an extremely important fight for him. First title defense opportunity, and it's also the first chance for him to shut all of us up who think his best days are behind him.

 

[datalink7]

You mean you're disgusted by people who change their opinions to reflect reality? Go fuck yourself.

Seriously. You can't start liking someone when you see that they are good and start winning? All of a sudden this is "jumping on the bandwagon" and is bad?

 

[CPA]

Man, Jones is getting arrogant. The way he is spouting off and not even giving Shogun the respect of looking at him. I hope Shogun beats JJ down. I love to watch Jones fight but he went from confident to arrogant/cocky REALLY fast in the past 2 months.

Hardly. Jones raises money for cancer research, posts daily insparational messages on his twitter account, speaks with any and all fans that ask for his attention, is probably the most soft-spoken MMA fighter out there and wore a friggin suit to the pre-fight conference. Looks like you got caught in the Woosta game

 

[Woosta]

Shogun is a good fighter, but it's not out of the question that he could go the way of Big Nog; dominant in Pride, bordering on yawn-worthy in the UFC.

"Good"? The guy has a top 5 of all time record in MMA. He's way better than "good", he's GREAT.

 

[TheNinja]

Hardly. Jones raises money for cancer research, posts daily insparational messages on his twitter account, speaks with any and all fans that ask for his attention, is probably the most soft-spoken MMA fighter out there and wore a friggin suit to the pre-fight conference. Looks like you got caught in the Woosta game

He might be a really good guy, but he isn't soft-spoken. He signed his autograph Champion 2011 this week before the fight even takes place. I just think he's starting to buy into his own hype. It's hard not to when everyone tells you you are going to be the next champion and one of the greatest of all time. You can TV specials about you, etc. He's a young kid yet, I just think he's getting pretty cocky. And no, I'm not caught in the Woosta game of saying every former Pride fighter would literally kill every UFC fighter back in the day.....probably could have taken them on 2 at a time.

 

[bfdd]

more staredown weirdness from JJ

 

[waggy]

Further proof that you are an idiot. You find some pics some idiot cleverly framed on Sherdog and call Jones a disrespectful idiot and that's "The Truth". Jones shook his hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDmEdk3U8yI

lol shit. i been had! i knew i should have looked instead of believing a woosta a post fuck me.

 

[Woosta]

And no, I'm not caught in the Woosta game of saying every former Pride fighter would literally kill every UFC fighter back in the day.....probably could have taken them on 2 at a time.

Huh? I don't think every former PRIDE fighter would literally kill every UFC fighter. The game evolves. The PRIDE fighters who don't evolve wouldn't do well against evolved UFC fighters.

The PRIDE generation vs their UFC counterparts though AT THE TIME, the PRIDE guys were much better.

Fedor > Randy
Shogun > Couture
Anderson > Franklin or whoever
Hendo > Franklin
Rampage > Couture

etc..