UFC 124 Saturday Dec 11th PPV

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OCNewbie

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Jul 18, 2000
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Fedor lost once in 10 years. How not embarassing.

I think Fedor is better than Werdum, but Fedor got overconfident and thought he could just power out of anything Werdum threw at him. If Fedor's management can ever agree to another fight, I'm anxious to see how well he does when he comes back.
 

RPD

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Jul 22, 2009
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SLOMOFedorTaps.gif
 

Woosta

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Mar 23, 2008
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So, out of 10 years and 34 fights the only single example of Fedor not winning would be 10 seconds of a triangle ( tournament cut arguably doesnt count as a legit loss ) which was *only* caused by Fedor's berserk-like frenziness and lust to end and finish fights.

Thanks for indirectly pointing out how great Fedor is. It's a shame guys like GSP were born in his generation because they get completely overshadowed by his greatness.

Someone hit me up when GSP goes undefeated for 10 years while KOing and subbing guys.
 
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OCNewbie

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Jul 18, 2000
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IMO, Mirko and Big Nog (when they were both in their primes) are the only 2 (3) wins Fedor has that were against really stellar competition. Arlovski was schooling Fedor on the feet till he tried that foolish flying knee and paid the price. Tim Sylvia never had a chance against Fedor, and was only ranked when the heavyweight division was as thick as water.

I believe Fedor is an amazing fighter, but his competition, as a whole, has been laughable.
 

Woosta

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Mar 23, 2008
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IMO, Mirko and Big Nog (when they were both in their primes) are the only 2 (3) wins Fedor has that were against really stellar competition. Arlovski was schooling Fedor on the feet till he tried that foolish flying knee and paid the price. Tim Sylvia never had a chance against Fedor, and was only ranked when the heavyweight division was as thick as water.

I believe Fedor is an amazing fighter, but his competition, as a whole, has been laughable.

Ok. Let's look at Cain Velasquez, the UFC HW's competition compared to Fedor...

Win 9–0 Brock Lesnar TKO (Punches) UFC 121: Lesnar vs. Velasquez October 23, 2010 1 4:12 Anaheim, California Won UFC Heavyweight Championship; Knockout of the Night
Win 8–0 Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira KO (Punches) UFC 110: Nogueira vs. Velasquez February 21, 2010 1 2:20 Sydney, Australia Knockout of the Night
Win 7–0 Ben Rothwell TKO (Punches) UFC 104: Machida vs. Shogun October 24, 2009 2 0:58 Los Angeles, California
Win 6–0 Cheick Kongo Decision (Unanimous) UFC 99: The Comeback June 13, 2009 3 5:00 Cologne, Germany
Win 5–0 Denis Stojnić TKO (Punches) UFC Fight Night: Lauzon vs. Stephens February 7, 2009 2 2:34 Tampa, Florida Knockout of the Night
Win 4–0 Jake O'Brien TKO (Punches) UFC Fight Night: Silva vs. Irvin July 19, 2008 1 2:02 Las Vegas, Nevada
Win 3–0 Brad Morris TKO (Punches) UFC 83: Serra vs. St. Pierre II April 19, 2008 1 2:10 Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Win 2–0 Jeremiah Constant TKO (Punches) Bodog Fight: St. Petersburg December 16, 2006 1 4:00 St. Petersburg, Russia
Win 1–0 Jesse Fujarczyk TKO (Punches) Strikeforce: Tank vs. Buentello October 7, 2006 1 1:58 Fresno, California

His competition is laughable. Brock is 1 dimensional. Nogueira in 2010 is literally a zombie version of the one Fedor fought. Cain's competition is laughable.

Next up, Brock Lesnar

Loss 5–2 Cain Velasquez TKO (Strikes) UFC 121: Lesnar vs. Velasquez October 23, 2010 1 4:12 Anaheim, California Lost UFC Heavyweight Championship
Win 5–1 Shane Carwin Submission (Arm Triangle Choke) UFC 116: Lesnar vs. Carwin July 3, 2010 2 2:19 Las Vegas, Nevada Defended UFC Heavyweight Championship to become the Undisputed Champion. Submission of the Night
Win 4–1 Frank Mir TKO (Punches) UFC 100 July 11, 2009 2 1:48 Las Vegas, Nevada Defended UFC Heavyweight Championship to become the Undisputed Champion
Win 3–1 Randy Couture TKO (Strikes) UFC 91: Couture vs. Lesnar November 15, 2008 2 3:07 Las Vegas, Nevada Won UFC Heavyweight Championship.
Win 2–1 Heath Herring Decision (Unanimous) UFC 87: Seek and Destroy August 9, 2008 3 5:00 Minneapolis, Minnesota
Loss 1–1 Frank Mir Submission (Kneebar) UFC 81: Breaking Point February 2, 2008 1 1:30 Las Vegas, Nevada UFC Debut
Win 1–0 Min-Soo Kim Submission (Punches) Dynamite!! USA June 2, 2007 1 1:09 Los Angeles, California MMA Debut

Again, laughable. Did you see him get embarassed by Cain *and* Carwin? Carwin is a steroid junkie who can't even get past the first round and gasses. He's 1-1 with Mir. Laughable competition.

Next up, Shane Carwin

Loss 12-1 Brock Lesnar Submission (Arm Triangle Choke) UFC 116: Lesnar vs. Carwin July 3, 2010 2 2:19 Las Vegas, Nevada, US For UFC Heavyweight Championship
Win 12–0 Frank Mir KO (Punches) UFC 111: St-Pierre vs. Hardy March 27, 2010 1 3:48 Newark, New Jersey, US Won UFC Interim Heavyweight Championship, Knockout of the Night.
Win 11–0 Gabriel Gonzaga KO (Punch) UFC 96: Jackson vs. Jardine March 7, 2009 1 1:09 Columbus, Ohio, US
Win 10–0 Neil Wain TKO (Punches) UFC 89: Bisping vs. Leben October 18, 2008 1 1:31 Birmingham, England
Win 9–0 Christian Wellisch KO (Punch) UFC 84: Ill Will May 24, 2008 1 0:44 Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Win 8–0 Sherman Pendergarst TKO (Punches) ROF 31 – Undisputed December 1, 2007 1 1:41 Broomfield, Colorado, US Won Ring of Fire Heavyweight Championship
Win 7–0 Rex Richards Submission (Guillotine Choke) AOW – Art of War 4 October 27, 2007 1 1:24 Tunica, Mississippi, US
Win 6–0 Rick Slaton KO (Punch) ROF 30 – Domination September 15, 2007 1 0:49 Broomfield, Colorado, US
Win 5–0 Chris Guillen Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) UTS 6 – Ultimate Texas Showdown 6 June 24, 2006 1 0:29 Frisco, Texas, US
Win 4–0 Justice Smith TKO (Punches) Extreme Wars 3 – Bay Area Brawl June 3, 2006 1 0:31 Oakland, California, US
Win 3–0 Jay McCown Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) UTS 5 – Ultimate Texas Showdown 5 April 29, 2006 1 1:31 Texas, US
Win 2–0 Casey Jackson Submission (Guillotine Choke) Extreme Wars 2 – X-1 March 18, 2006 1 0:22 Honolulu, Hawaii, US
Win 1–0 Carlton Jones Submission (Punches) WEC 17 – Halloween Fury 4 October 14, 2005 1 2:11 Lemoore, California, US

Laughable competition - his biggest fights were Brock ( 1 dimensional ) and Mir. His competition is laughable.

The UFC Heavyweights should start fighting top competition. Start looking at the facts and stop listening to Dana White's rambling.
 
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OCNewbie

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Jul 18, 2000
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Talking about the lack of elite opponents other heavyweights have faced doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of Fedor's opponents during his "10 year, 34 fight run", that you are showcasing, didn't include but 2, at the time, elite level fighters. You might try to argue Arona is in that mix, but hasn't he been a 205 lb'er for a LONG time now, not to mention I believe that decision (Fedor couldn't finish him) was VERY controversial, as I recall.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
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Ok, let's do the same with Fedor's opponents -

Loss Fabricio Werdum Submission (Triangle Armbar) Strikeforce / M-1 Global - Fedor vs.
Werdum 6/26/2010 1 1:09 - No comment

Win Brett Rogers TKO (Punches) Strikeforce / M-1 Global - Fedor vs. Rogers 11/7/2009 2 1:48 - Less of a MMArtist, and more of a tough-guy competition winner. Still, was a nice KO anyway

Win Andrei Arlovski KO (Punch) Affliction - Day of Reckoning 1/24/2009 1 3:14 - Was getting schooled on the feet til Arlovski threw a reckless flying knee, exposing his glass chin

Win Tim Sylvia Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) Affliction - Banned 7/19/2008 1 0:36 - Timmy is not in Fedor's league.

Win Hong Man Choi Submission (Armbar) Yarennoka - New Years Eve 2007 12/31/2007 1 1:54 - Freakshow....

Win Matt Lindland Submission (Armbar) Bodog Fight - Clash of the Nations 4/14/2007 1 2:58 - Middleweight that cut Fedor with the first punch. Also, Fedor may have used ropes to reverse position on him

Win Mark Hunt Submission (Kimura) PRIDE - Shockwave 2006 12/31/2006 1 8:16 - 1-Dimensional striker, yet still gave Fedor a scare with a near Kimura

Win Mark Coleman Submission (Armbar) PRIDE 32 - The Real Deal 10/21/2006 2 1:15 - 41 yrs old now, see below

Win Wagner da Conceicao Martins Submission (Punches) PRIDE - Shockwave 2005 12/31/2005 1 0:26 - Freak show...

Win Mirko Filipovic Decision (Unaminous) PRIDE - Final Conflict 2005 8/28/2005 3 5:00 - Impressive win when Mirko was in his prime. Highlight of Fedor's career, probably

Win Tsuyoshi Kosaka TKO (Doctor Stoppage) PRIDE - Bushido 6 4/3/2005 1 10:00 - Avenged his first "loss"

Win Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE - Shockwave 2004 12/31/2004 3 5:00 - Another Legit win

NC Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira No Contest - Accidental Cut PRIDE - Final Conflict 2004 8/15/2004 1 3:52

Win Naoya Ogawa Submission (Armbar) PRIDE - Final Conflict 2004 8/15/2004 1 0:54 - CAN

Win Kevin Randleman Submission (Kimura) PRIDE - Critical Countdown 2004 6/20/2004 1 1:33 - 1-Dimensional, Gatekeeper at best. Gave Fedor a scare

Win Mark Coleman Submission (Armbar) PRIDE - Total Elimination 2004 4/25/2004 1 2:11 - 1-Dimensional wrestler, 39 yrs old, past his prime

Win Yuji Nagata TKO (Punches) Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2003 - Inoki Festival 12/31/2003 1 1:02 - CAN

Win Gary Goodridge TKO (Soccer Kicks and Punches) PRIDE - Total Elimination 2003 8/10/2003 1 1:09 - Borderline CAN

Win Kazuyuki Fujita Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) PRIDE 26 - Bad to the Bone 6/8/2003 1 4:17 - Gatekeeper at best

Win Egidijus Valavicius Submission (Kimura) Rings Lithuania - Bushido Rings 7: Adrenalinas 4/5/2003 2 1:13 - CAN

Win Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE 25 - Body Blow 3/16/2003 3 5:00 - Legit, impressive win

Win Heath Herring TKO (Doctor Stoppage) PRIDE 23 - Championship Chaos 2 11/24/2002 1 10:00 - Gatekeeper at best

Win Semmy Schilt Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE 21 - Demolition 6/23/2002 3 5:00 - Elite K1 Striker, but only middle-of-the-road as far as an MMA heavyweight

Win Chris Haseman TKO (Punches) Rings - World Title Series Grand Final 2/15/2002 1 2:50 - CAN

Win Lee Hasdell Submission (Guillotine Choke) Rings - World Title Series 5 12/21/2001 1 4:10 - CAN

Win Ryushi Yanagisawa Decision (Unanimous) Rings - World Title Series 4 10/20/2001 3 5:00 - CAN

Win Renato Sobral Decision (Unanimous) Rings - 10th Anniversary 8/11/2001 2 5:00 - Light Heavyweight

Win Kerry Schall Submission (Armbar) Rings - World Title Series 1 4/20/2001 1 1:47 - CAN

Win Mihail Apostolov Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) Rings Russia - Russia vs. Bulgaria 4/6/2001 1 1:03 - CAN

Loss Tsuyoshi Kosaka TKO (Doctor Stoppage) Rings - King of Kings 2000 Block B 12/22/2000 1 0:17 - Fedor had back luck here

Win Ricardo Arona Decision (Unanimous) Rings - King of Kings 2000 Block B 12/22/2000 3 5:00 - Light Heavyweight, and very controversial decision

Win Hiroya Takada KO (Punches) Rings - Battle Genesis Vol. 6 9/5/2000 1 0:12 - CAN

Win Levon Lagvilava Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) Rings - Russia vs Georgia 8/16/2000 1 7:24 - CAN

Win Martin Lazarov Submission (Guillotine Choke) Rings Russia - Russia vs. Bulgaria 5/21/2000 1 2:24 - CAN

Fedor is a very talented fighter, but his career record is massively bloated with competition that has consistently been sub-par, almost the entire duration of that career.
 
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TheLonelyPhoenix

Diamond Member
Feb 15, 2004
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Why is it every MMA thread eventually becomes a "Fedor is the best" thread? This must be a corollary of Godwin's Law.
 

Druidx

Platinum Member
Jul 16, 2002
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Got to LOL at the guy claiming GSP easily dominating his opponent for 25 straight minutes isn't as impressive as a quick KO.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
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Back on topic.

Link


UFC welterweight contender Josh Koscheck suffered a broken orbital bone during the first round of his championship fight versus Georges St. Pierre (21-2) Saturday night in Montreal, a source told ESPN.com.




Koscheck (15-5) was released from a Montreal-area hospital Sunday afternoon, according to his trainer, Bob Cook. He cannot fly home to San Jose, Calif., because an air pocket formed behind the broken orbital bone, making air travel dangerous. UFC officials arranged for Koscheck and Cook to drive Sunday afternoon from Montreal to Boston, where the 33-year-old fighter is expected to undergo surgery Monday or Tuesday.
"We're going to have a much better sense of the injury when we get to the States," Cook said. "We'll get it checked down there. Hopefully he can have the surgery there and head home as soon as possible."
St. Pierre, who went on to win a unanimous decision after five rounds, shut Koscheck's right eye in the opening round in front of 23,152 wildly partisan supporters inside the Bell Centre with a lunging jab.
The 29-year-old champion attacked the right side of Koscheck's face the remainder of the bout with quick jabs and powerful left hooks. A ringside physician nearly called the bout at the end of the third round, however Koscheck was allowed to continue fighting.
======================================================

I wish him luck and hopefully this is not a career ending injury. One wonder's why he was allowed to continue fighting with an eye shut after the first round.

He showed a lot of heart and class AFTER the fight so all the trash talk was just hype like in the WWE.

So yes, St-Pierre did put him out in the first round.
GSP, the greatest, smartest fighter EVER.
 

Woosta

Platinum Member
Mar 23, 2008
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It's very simple. If GSP isn't so great, why can't anyone beat him?

The level of competition GSP fights is much easier than Fedor's competition. Fedor has to go through guys as skilled yet bigger than himself, while GSP dominates small guys.
 

Woosta

Platinum Member
Mar 23, 2008
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It's a shame but everyone is just riding the GSP bandwagon after this event against a horrible opponent who he's already beaten. GSP should go to his true weight class which is Middleweight and if he can beat guys larger than himself in dominating fashion similar to Fedor, I'll give him props.
 

WaTaGuMp

Lifer
May 10, 2001
21,207
2,506
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That damn GSP, he is the ONLY fighter in MMA that cuts weight and fights at a lower weight class. That guy has a lot of nerve.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
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GSP was beaten twice, legitimately.

Fedor was beaten once.

Fedor is greater.

yes he was beaten twice. once by dominate matt who at the time was dominating. the other by a crappy matt who got in a power punch and took advantage of it. the other 21 fights? he kicked ass.

oh and fedor has 2 lose's no matter how you want to score it he has 2.


and GSP does fight in his weight class. if he wasn't that weight at the weigh in he couldn't fight..ALL fighters cut weight.

both are great fighters. sad that for someone who claims to know so much about it you don't understand that winning a fight is not about ko'ing the other fighter.
 

Woosta

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Mar 23, 2008
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inside leg kick, jab, circle is not a genius strategy. gsp does not have that killer tenacity. first it was lnp, then wall and stall, and now jab and jog.

you think fedor couldn't have done a jab and jog to werdum the entire fight? he would never do such a thing, he comes for blood, he comes to destroy his opponents. he's not a point fighter. gsp IS.
 

ManSnake

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 2000
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inside leg kick, jab, circle is not a genius strategy. gsp does not have that killer tenacity. first it was lnp, then wall and stall, and now jab and jog.

you think fedor couldn't have done a jab and jog to werdum the entire fight? he would never do such a thing, he comes for blood, he comes to destroy his opponents. he's not a point fighter. gsp IS.

At least I enjoyed free Fedor fights on CBS. The guy came to fight. I wouldn't pay a cent ever to watch GSP lay on top of another guy for 25 minutes and win decisions. Great fighters like Pacquiao challenge themselves by moving up in weight classes and still find ways to win. GSP is satisfied fighting smaller guys and guys he already beat to win decisions. A great fighter he is not.
 

Axon

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2003
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GSP's greatest sin is that his fighting style is methodical. Also known as boring. Otherwise, he embarrasses guys in the cage. Critics want to be critical, however, so here we are discussing how GSP doesn't finish.

I'd like to see him move up in weight, just because it would be interesting. I don't think the extra weight would matter, other than his opponent might be stronger - I'm sure GSP weighs around 175-180 day of his fights.
 

Woosta

Platinum Member
Mar 23, 2008
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Take a look at it from the other perspective... can you imagine the kind of shit Fedor would receive if he went 5 rounds with a jab and jog unable to finish Arlovski? Can you imagine the kind of shit UFC fans would talk if he wasn't able to sub Tim Sylvia with the RNC? The man's standards are so high that even while KOing opponents in under 3 rounds he STILL gets criticized. That is fucking greatness right there.

Fedor needs to get the respect he deserves.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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GSP was beaten twice, legitimately.
Fedor was beaten once.
Fedor is greater.

I never said GSP was greater than Fedor. I will say GSP is dominant.

To use a basketball analogy, casual basketball fans love watching the Suns, as do I. Casual basketball fans think the Spurs are boring, but I love watching them dominate. I would take the Spurs as my team over the Suns any day. Fast breaks are exciting, winning more so.

When a guy consistently wins, and shows he can't be beat, that is greatness. You might not like the tactics he employs, but if it isn't greatness he should be vulnerable to defeat. What opponents is he dodging? What decisions were controversial? If you're going to make an argument that he isn't (one of) the best, you should at least have SOMETHING to bring to the table other than 'he's boring to watch', or 'he didn't win the way I think he should'.

He wins, and if he's not the best in his class, someone should step up and beat him.