U.S. to propose mandatory vehicle 'black boxes

[spidey07]

I can guarantee you that your car already has a device that tracks how many miles you drive.

Read Vi's link. They want a way to easily and remotely grab mileage. Right now the black boxes are mainly proprietary systems by each manufacturer. Hell, Toyota wouldn't even give the government a way to read them until the federal government "compelled" them to give them readers during the sticky pedals fiasco.

By mandating what and how the boxes operate it's simple to remotely grab whatever they want. Hell, even NHTSA said they wanted "more information" from the boxes.

Poke fun all you want, but there is a growing desire to tax per mile as fuel efficiency rises. Hell, there's even been legislature proposed. Less gas used = less tax money, they WILL find a way to get that money.

This has bad idea written all over it.

 

[Brainonska511]

I can guarantee you that they want them in there so they have a way to track usage and impose a "pay per mile" tax.

You know, there are these fancy devices already in vehicles called odometers. They could already implement your nightmare by simply requiring the mileage be reported at already required annual inspections.

 

[spidey07]

You know, there are these fancy devices already in vehicles called odometers. They could already implement your nightmare by simply requiring the mileage be reported at already required annual inspections.

You can't do that easily via odometer, but reading the data as the car crosses state lines would ensure each state could track driven in their state and collect the tax. You think I'm making this crap up? The push for an easy way to track mileage for pay by mile tax has only been getting stronger the last few years. The main sticking point was always "how to accurately track it and what about miles driven in other states".

Now NHTSA is going to mandate a very easy way to track it. They're even mandating how the data is stored so it could easily be imported into a single large data base.

The rule, which takes effect in the 2013 model year, standardizes the information EDRs collect and makes retrieving the data easier.Devices must record 15 data elements, including vehicle deceleration, in specific formats.

 

[mugs]

Read Vi's link. They want a way to easily and remotely grab mileage. Right now the black boxes are mainly proprietary systems by each manufacturer. Hell, Toyota wouldn't even give the government a way to read them until the federal government "compelled" them to give them readers during the sticky pedals fiasco.

By mandating what and how the boxes operate it's simple to remotely grab whatever they want. Hell, even NHTSA said they wanted "more information" from the boxes.

Poke fun all you want, but there is a growing desire to tax per mile as fuel efficiency rises. Hell, there's even been legislature proposed. Less gas used = less tax money, they WILL find a way to get that money.

This has bad idea written all over it.

Electric cars are a separate issue for obvious reasons. There's a big difference between consuming no gas and consuming less gas. There's a very easy way to reverse the loss of gas tax revenue as a result of more efficient cars. Think about it.

Until you find proof that these things track mileage and can transmit data wirelessly, you're just complaining about something that isn't happening.

 

[ShawnD1]

not good.

this will be used as spidey said "pay per mile" tax, insurance to jack up rates, and or cops to issue tickets.

though i give it a few years and GPS will be on EVERY car for "safety reasons" and that will do the same.

I wouldn't be too opposed to that. Your stolen car could be recovered immediately instead of being "oh well, it's gone, I'm fucked now"

 

[Exterous]

Tire pressure monitoring, stability control, airbags, ect. And now these being slowly added in. All of that stuff has to start adding up to bottom line cost passed onto consumer.

Yep - don't forget increased repair bills for when these things break

And by the way, the "tax by mileage driven" thing is coming. The idiot lawmakers didn't think ahead on what the push for higher gas mileage cars was going to do to their tax income via gas taxes. And since government always expands, cutting spending won't be an option, they will need new taxes to fill the gap.

Agreed - esp since they can't riase the gas tax any higher without a huge backlash. The biggest issue though it how to implament it so average joe doesn't suddleny see a $2,000 bill in front of him for road use

 

[waggy]

Anyone know what Onstar tracks behind the scenes even if you aren't on the safety plan?

The tech is probably already there in many GM cars.

yeap. one of the reasons i wont own a GM. Also there are no GM cars i like heh.


Odemeter is nto the most reliable thing for what the goverment is doing. THey used to be easy to change (not putting it in reverse). There were mods that changed how much it reported to actually being able to roll it back or swap it out.

with the blackbox a person can't do shit to it.

 

[vi edit]

with the blackbox a person can't do shit to it.

If people can hack ipods, playstations, engine ECU's, ect...they'll find a way to hack a black box if they desire.

 

[manlymatt83]

Completely against this. What the hell is the point? Nothing but an invasion of privacy.

Glad I don't own a car.

 

[waggy]

If people can hack ipods, playstations, engine ECU's, ect...they'll find a way to hack a black box if they desire.

doh. probably right.

 

[vi edit]

Completely against this. What the hell is the point? Nothing but an invasion of privacy.

Glad I don't own a car.

The point is "logging of vehicle telemetry".

The bigger question is what are the end uses?

Is it court admissible for speed and driver interaction after an accident?
Can an insurance company use it to deny claims/coverage?
Can you get extra tickets tacked on by the police based on the data recovered?
Will it be used as a milage tracking device for future tax levies?
Will it be used by the NTSA for future forensics on "sticky pedal" incidents?
Will safe drivers ever be rewarded for their driving styles?
Will bad drivers be punished for theirs?
And so on....

 

[ShawnD1]

If people can hack ipods, playstations, engine ECU's, ect...they'll find a way to hack a black box if they desire.

I think dicking with your odometer is already illegal. Tweaking the black box should probably be illegal as well for the same reason.

 

[vi edit]

I think dicking with your odometer is already illegal. Tweaking the black box should probably be illegal as well for the same reason.

Never said it wouldn't be illegal. Just that people would find a way to circumvent it. As they do with all other types of DRM/Content management/applications/devices.

 

[waggy]

I think dicking with your odometer is already illegal. Tweaking the black box should probably be illegal as well for the same reason.

do you really think that is going to stop people? if something is going to cost them money more people will do what they can to reduce the cost.

 

[ShawnD1]

Never said it wouldn't be illegal. Just that people would find a way to circumvent it. As they do with all other types of DRM/Content management/applications/devices.

True, but making it illegal makes it a lot less common. If changing the odometer was legal, companies would sell kits to do it and it would be very easy to do. Because it is illegal, such kits are not very common. When a car in the bargain finder says 100k miles, there's a very high probability that it's accurate.

 

[BoberFett]

As long as it is used for accident related data analysis only.

LOL

 

[waggy]

True, but making it illegal makes it a lot less common. If changing the odometer was legal, companies would sell kits to do it and it would be very easy to do. Because it is illegal, such kits are not very common. When a car in the bargain finder says 100k miles, there's a very high probability that it's accurate.

heh it happens more then you think. there are companies where you can buy replacement odometer's and ways to change the numbers. Even on electric ones you can still change it (takes longer).

 

[SphinxnihpS]

As long as it is used for accident related data analysis only.

As long as it's for... FUCK THAT!

NO MORE FUCKING BIG BROTHER. WAKE THE FUCK UP!

The biggest proponents of this shit are the police. They also want to add a device so that any cop can remotely turn off your car.

 

[Duder1no]

As long as it's for... FUCK THAT!

NO MORE FUCKING BIG BROTHER. WAKE THE FUCK UP!

The biggest proponents of this shit are the police. They also want to add a device so that any cop can remotely turn off your car.

this is my concern as well

 

[PingSpike]

Also mandatory next year: Installation of tracking devices into the anuses of all citizens of the US.

 

[ShawnD1]

Also mandatory next year: Installation of tracking devices into the anuses of all citizens of the US.

I support this idea as well. Then we could build death rays that let you pass when you are authenticated. Illegal immigrants would be disintegrated when they step over the line. They would be installed at the entrances of hospitals and public schools 😉

 

[SphinxnihpS]

this is my concern as well

Real time tracking of your movements.
Real time tracking of your license status.
Real time tracking of your speed.
Real time tracking of traffic violations.
Real time tracking of driving micro-habits to determine driver's state.
Lifetime database of driving.

This an more are already all possible, we just need to give them permission to do it to us.

 

[Duder1no]

Real time tracking of your movements.
Real time tracking of your license status.
Real time tracking of your speed.
Real time tracking of traffic violations.
Real time tracking of driving micro-habits to determine driver's state.
Lifetime database of driving.

This an more are already all possible, we just need to give them permission to do it to us.

exactly

and in before the "if you don't have nothing to hide then there's nothing to fear" bullshit that allows and justifies the perpetuation of big brother policies

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Electric cars are a separate issue for obvious reasons. There's a big difference between consuming no gas and consuming less gas. There's a very easy way to reverse the loss of gas tax revenue as a result of more efficient cars. Think about it.

Until you find proof that these things track mileage and can transmit data wirelessly, you're just complaining about something that isn't happening.

If it's possible with information tech, it will happen.

 

[vi edit]

Electric cars are a separate issue for obvious reasons. There's a big difference between consuming no gas and consuming less gas. There's a very easy way to reverse the loss of gas tax revenue as a result of more efficient cars. Think about it.

Until you find proof that these things track mileage and can transmit data wirelessly, you're just complaining about something that isn't happening.

It's not just electric cars. When hybrids came out many states (west coast in particular) scrambled trying to figure out ways to recoup the loss in gas taxes. GPS milage tracking was considered and even piloted over 5 years ago. Long before an all electric car was even a blip on the production ready radar.