U.S. to propose mandatory vehicle 'black boxes

Duder1no

Senior member
Nov 1, 2010
866
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The U.S. Transportation Department said today it will propose making vehicle "black boxes" mandatory in all vehicles by the end of the year.

The department's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has long considered whether to make black boxes, officially called event data recorders, or EDRs, mandatory. They collect data about the seconds leading up to a crash and can help investigators determine the cause.

Last year, Congress considered requiring EDRs in all vehicles. NHTSA Administrator David Strickland told Congress the agency was studying the issue.

The plan was included in a 197-page Transportation Department regulatory reform proposal released by the White House this morning.

"NHTSA plans to propose mandatory EDRs in all passenger vehicles in 2011," the Transportation Department said in the report.

In a separate agency document posted on its website, NHTSA said it is also working on a proposal "for future enhancements to (EDRs) capabilities and applicability."

But the agency said it hasn't decided whether to require EDRs in heavy-duty vehicles.

Most automobiles already have the devices. NHTSA estimated that about 64 percent of 2005 model passenger vehicles had the devices. Many major automakers already include them all vehicles, including General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co., Toyota Motor Corp. and Mazda Motor Co.

In August 2006, NHTSA issued a rule setting standards for EDR data collection.

The rule, which takes effect in the 2013 model year, standardizes the information EDRs collect and makes retrieving the data easier. Devices must record 15 data elements, including vehicle deceleration, in specific formats.

Different automakers collect different data. In 2009, not all Toyota EDRs recorded both pre- and post-crash data. By the end of last year, all Toyota and Lexus vehicles included EDRs that can record both.

In May 2010, the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, the trade association GM, Ford, Chrysler Group LLC, Toyota and eight other automakers, endorsed making EDRs mandatory in all vehicles, but expressed concerns that some in Congress wanted more elaborate and expensive ones than are available.

The devices have been in use for about 20 years.

GM began widely installing the predecessor version of today's event data recorders in vehicles in the 1990 model year, and they became standard equipment in light duty vehicles in the 1995 model year.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110526...mandatory-vehicle-‘black-boxes’#ixzz1O2QvPgPq
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Most automobiles already have the devices. NHTSA estimated that about 64 percent of 2005 model passenger vehicles had the devices. Many major automakers already include them all vehicles, including General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co., Toyota Motor Corp. and Mazda Motor Co.
Interesting. It doesn't seem like a radical idea when it's already most of the way there. I support it :thumbsup:
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
Terrible idea. More cost and more weight. Cars today are already suffering from an obesity epidemic.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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As long as it is used for accident related data analysis only.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
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Terrible idea. More cost and more weight. Cars today are already suffering from an obesity epidemic.

People keep more trash in the vehicle than the weight of this recorder and related sensors.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,001
17,405
126
Terrible idea. More cost and more weight. Cars today are already suffering from an obesity epidemic.


Most automobiles already have the devices. NHTSA estimated that about 64 percent of 2005 model passenger vehicles had the devices. Many major automakers already include them all vehicles, including General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co., Toyota Motor Corp. and Mazda Motor Co.



Didn't read huh?
 

SamQuint

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2010
1,155
45
91
If they can be used in court to prove guilt or innocence in an accident that would be interesting. I wonder if they could look at a drivers historical data to see if they were a habitual speeder and use that against them. Probably only a matter of time before that happens. I am sure lawyers are foaming at the mouth.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,344
126
I'd be interested to see how much mandated safety devices have increased costs.

Tire pressure monitoring, stability control, airbags, ect. And now these being slowly added in. All of that stuff has to start adding up to bottom line cost passed onto consumer.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
I can guarantee you that they want them in there so they have a way to track usage and impose a "pay per mile" tax.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,344
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I can guarantee you that they want them in there so they have a way to track usage and impose a "pay per mile" tax.

Wouldn't surprise me. Install a milage logger and some kind of RFID or access port. Each year when you go to renew your plates you have to hit a state "true up" station that grabs your miles driven and prints you off a receipt you take over to the billing office and pay up before getting your tags for the year.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
I can guarantee you that they want them in there so they have a way to track usage and impose a "pay per mile" tax.
Even my uncle's ghetto truck from the 1950s had an odometer.

Some places also require you to write down the odometer reading when doing yearly registration. It's optional in my province.
Your odo is also written down every time you take the car to a mechanic and every time a car is bought/sold.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
not good.

this will be used as spidey said "pay per mile" tax, insurance to jack up rates, and or cops to issue tickets.

though i give it a few years and GPS will be on EVERY car for "safety reasons" and that will do the same.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,344
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Anyone know what Onstar tracks behind the scenes even if you aren't on the safety plan?

The tech is probably already there in many GM cars.
 

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
22,114
1
0
They collect data about the seconds leading up to a crash and can help investigators determine the cause.

I am fine with this. As long as they can not phone home and dealerships can not pull data during service.
 

bignateyk

Lifer
Apr 22, 2002
11,288
7
0
Wouldn't surprise me. Install a milage logger and some kind of RFID or access port. Each year when you go to renew your plates you have to hit a state "true up" station that grabs your miles driven and prints you off a receipt you take over to the billing office and pay up before getting your tags for the year.

What, like an odometer? :biggrin:
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
I can guarantee you that they want them in there so they have a way to track usage and impose a "pay per mile" tax.

I can guarantee you that your car already has a device that tracks how many miles you drive.
 

Argo

Lifer
Apr 8, 2000
10,045
0
0
Wouldn't surprise me. Install a milage logger and some kind of RFID or access port. Each year when you go to renew your plates you have to hit a state "true up" station that grabs your miles driven and prints you off a receipt you take over to the billing office and pay up before getting your tags for the year.

Too bad cars don't already have a device that logs miles :whiste:
 

KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,664
201
106
My concern is that they aren't specifying what government agencies are able to look at this data and how. Will it require a subpoena? Will a cop pull you over and whip out a device and download the information without your consent? How is this going to work?

And by the way, the "tax by mileage driven" thing is coming. The idiot lawmakers didn't think ahead on what the push for higher gas mileage cars was going to do to their tax income via gas taxes. And since government always expands, cutting spending won't be an option, they will need new taxes to fill the gap.

-KeithP