U.S. to make Iraq intelligence public

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: wyvrn
The farther along the investigation goes, the more convince I am that Iraq is hiding weapons and research. If Blix is also saying that, I see no reason to continue to believe Bush is lying. Blix isn't a Bush crony. It's just a matter of time now...

Why the big hurry? With the inspectors there I really doubt if any continued Nuclear research is going forward in ernest and all his stockpiles of WMD's are stashed away so even he wouldn't have immediate access to them. Now if the inspectors were forced out that would be a whole different story but right now the really don't see the urgency to attack them.

If not now, when? The inspectors really can't do anything other than write reports and Saddam can have them thrown out anytime he wants. Saddam has already had ballistic missle tests while the inspectors were in Iraq. And, it does not take long to ready a chemical warhead. This whole process has been going on for almost a year now....not to mention the previous eleven years since the Gulf War. It has to end at some point so EVERYBODY can move forward. Else we will be eternally stuck in the current quagmire.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: wyvrn
The farther along the investigation goes, the more convince I am that Iraq is hiding weapons and research. If Blix is also saying that, I see no reason to continue to believe Bush is lying. Blix isn't a Bush crony. It's just a matter of time now...

Why the big hurry? With the inspectors there I really doubt if any continued Nuclear research is going forward in ernest and all his stockpiles of WMD's are stashed away so even he wouldn't have immediate access to them. Now if the inspectors were forced out that would be a whole different story but right now the really don't see the urgency to attack them.

If not now, when? The inspectors really can't do anything other than write reports and Saddam can have them thrown out anytime he wants. Saddam has already had ballistic missle tests while the inspectors were in Iraq. And, it does not take long to ready a chemical warhead. This whole process has been going on for almost a year now....not to mention the previous eleven years since the Gulf War. It has to end at some point so EVERYBODY can move forward. Else we will be eternally stuck in the current quagmire.

Move forward? Are you in a big hurry to go to war? The inspectors themselves say they need more time, why not give it to them? If we do we might get the support from countries like Russia. Today Putin warned Iraq that if he doesn't co-operate fully with the inspectors the Russians will support military actions against Iraq.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Harvey

The United States possesses several pieces of information which come from the work of our intelligence that show Iraq maintains prohibited weapons," Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said in an interview published yesterday in an Italian newspaper. "Once we have made sure it can be done safely, I think that in the next week or soon after we can make public a good part of this material.

There is nothing in the way of evidence shown in this article, just more allegations and promises that they have the proof and will make it public (read the article).

Sadam is nobody's nice guy, but when it comes to telling the truth, I don't trust Bush any further than I can throw any of you from where I am sitting. That said, I watched Powell's complete public statement, last night, and he is far more credible than any other member of the Bush administration. I sincerely hope they present solid documented evidence before shooting.

A more difficult task would be coming up with evidence that Bush has significant intelligence of his own.

Where was it said anywhere in the title or the article that proof was released? No where. It stated that proof was being readied for the consumption of our Allies, the UN, and the public.

In your reach at knocking Bush's intelligence you have knocked your own.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Thera

Most of Europe fell and it wasn't untill the US got involved that peace was eventually restored.

Deja vu...

HA! Typical... "We saved the world BS". I hope your ego can fit in the car on the drive home. America fought maybe 10% of WW2. And you gladly accept 100% credit for it. You disgrace all those who served in WW2. Not to mention your comparison to the situation in Iraq today.... pathetic.

Thanks for your insightful opinion, now go out and play with rest of the children so the adults can debate this issue.

If these are "adult" beliefs and if this is what you call "debate" then this country is screwed. Oh yeah... go play with yourself or something.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: wyvrn
The farther along the investigation goes, the more convince I am that Iraq is hiding weapons and research. If Blix is also saying that, I see no reason to continue to believe Bush is lying. Blix isn't a Bush crony. It's just a matter of time now...

Why the big hurry? With the inspectors there I really doubt if any continued Nuclear research is going forward in ernest and all his stockpiles of WMD's are stashed away so even he wouldn't have immediate access to them. Now if the inspectors were forced out that would be a whole different story but right now the really don't see the urgency to attack them.

If not now, when? The inspectors really can't do anything other than write reports and Saddam can have them thrown out anytime he wants. Saddam has already had ballistic missle tests while the inspectors were in Iraq. And, it does not take long to ready a chemical warhead. This whole process has been going on for almost a year now....not to mention the previous eleven years since the Gulf War. It has to end at some point so EVERYBODY can move forward. Else we will be eternally stuck in the current quagmire.

Move forward? Are you in a big hurry to go to war? The inspectors themselves say they need more time, why not give it to them? If we do we might get the support from countries like Russia. Today Putin warned Iraq that if he doesn't co-operate fully with the inspectors the Russians will support military actions against Iraq.

War should always be the last resort...and I think we have reached the end. This has been an ongoing problem since the end of the Gulf War. This was to be Saddam's Final Opportunity (after his previous 16 opportunities) to prove that he has cleaned up his act and is ready for Iraw to join the world community as a responsible and civilized nation. Hans Blix proved yesterday that Saddam has failed at this Final Opportunity. What will more inspections prove when it has already been proven that Saddam is in possession of illegal weapons, has purchased new weapons, and is currently testing weapons? The only thing that will do is give Saddam the most precious commodity he can receive....TIME.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Thera

Most of Europe fell and it wasn't untill the US got involved that peace was eventually restored.

Deja vu...

HA! Typical... "We saved the world BS". I hope your ego can fit in the car on the drive home. America fought maybe 10% of WW2. And you gladly accept 100% credit for it. You disgrace all those who served in WW2. Not to mention your comparison to the situation in Iraq today.... pathetic.

Thanks for your insightful opinion, now go out and play with rest of the children so the adults can debate this issue.

If these are "adult" beliefs and if this is what you call "debate" then this country is screwed. Oh yeah... go play with yourself or something.

Wow I guess you told me didn't you!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: wyvrn
The farther along the investigation goes, the more convince I am that Iraq is hiding weapons and research. If Blix is also saying that, I see no reason to continue to believe Bush is lying. Blix isn't a Bush crony. It's just a matter of time now...

Why the big hurry? With the inspectors there I really doubt if any continued Nuclear research is going forward in ernest and all his stockpiles of WMD's are stashed away so even he wouldn't have immediate access to them. Now if the inspectors were forced out that would be a whole different story but right now the really don't see the urgency to attack them.

If not now, when? The inspectors really can't do anything other than write reports and Saddam can have them thrown out anytime he wants. Saddam has already had ballistic missle tests while the inspectors were in Iraq. And, it does not take long to ready a chemical warhead. This whole process has been going on for almost a year now....not to mention the previous eleven years since the Gulf War. It has to end at some point so EVERYBODY can move forward. Else we will be eternally stuck in the current quagmire.

Move forward? Are you in a big hurry to go to war? The inspectors themselves say they need more time, why not give it to them? If we do we might get the support from countries like Russia. Today Putin warned Iraq that if he doesn't co-operate fully with the inspectors the Russians will support military actions against Iraq.

War should always be the last resort...and I think we have reached the end. This has been an ongoing problem since the end of the Gulf War. This was to be Saddam's Final Opportunity (after his previous 16 opportunities) to prove that he has cleaned up his act and is ready for Iraw to join the world community as a responsible and civilized nation. Hans Blix proved yesterday that Saddam has failed at this Final Opportunity. What will more inspections prove when it has already been proven that Saddam is in possession of illegal weapons, has purchased new weapons, and is currently testing weapons? The only thing that will do is give Saddam the most precious commodity he can receive....TIME.

Bah, you still haven't convinced me that giving the inspectors more time will work in Hussiens favor. Like I said, I believe that giving the inspectors more time would actually work in our favor as we would be able to garner the support of more countries plus the inspectors could conceivably come up with the evidence needed to convince those reluctant countries to participate in a military action to disarm Hussien.

I have no doubt that the US along with Britian could kick Hussiens ass, I just don't think we could effectively occupy Iraq afterwards which could possibly make the world more dangerous than it is now

 

[ElFenix]

i still don't see why anyone would reasonably think that the inspectors would see anything saddam doesn't want them to see. to me its unfathomable.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Thera

Most of Europe fell and it wasn't untill the US got involved that peace was eventually restored.

Deja vu...

HA! Typical... "We saved the world BS". I hope your ego can fit in the car on the drive home. America fought maybe 10% of WW2. And you gladly accept 100% credit for it. You disgrace all those who served in WW2. Not to mention your comparison to the situation in Iraq today.... pathetic.

Thanks for your insightful opinion, now go out and play with rest of the children so the adults can debate this issue.

If these are "adult" beliefs and if this is what you call "debate" then this country is screwed. Oh yeah... go play with yourself or something.

Wow I guess you told me didn't you!

Yeah... sure did, simply matching your wit. Not that you would understand that.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i still don't see why anyone would reasonably think that the inspectors would see anything saddam doesn't want them to see. to me its unfathomable.

Most of the World Community is requesting that the Inspectors be given more time. If Hussien refuse to co-operate that will only help us to build our case for a Multi-national force to take military actions to disarm him.

Do you think the the US and Britian can effectively occupy Iraq after we take out Hussien? How do we go about securing the areas of Iraq that are populated by Islamic Fundamentist that hate us as much as they hate Hussien and would be more than likely sympathetic to groups like Al Qaeda? We are still having a tough time securing Afghanstan what makes you think that the US and Britian alone could do the job in a much larger area like Iraq?

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Queasy
War should always be the last resort...and I think we have reached the end. This has been an ongoing problem since the end of the Gulf War. This was to be Saddam's Final Opportunity (after his previous 16 opportunities) to prove that he has cleaned up his act and is ready for Iraw to join the world community as a responsible and civilized nation. Hans Blix proved yesterday that Saddam has failed at this Final Opportunity. What will more inspections prove when it has already been proven that Saddam is in possession of illegal weapons, has purchased new weapons, and is currently testing weapons? The only thing that will do is give Saddam the most precious commodity he can receive....TIME.

Bah, you still haven't convinced me that giving the inspectors more time will work in Hussiens favor. Like I said, I believe that giving the inspectors more time would actually work in our favor as we would be able to garner the support of more countries plus the inspectors could conceivably come up with the evidence needed to convince those reluctant countries to participate in a military action to disarm Hussien.

I have no doubt that the US along with Britian could kick Hussiens ass, I just don't think we could effectively occupy Iraq afterwards which could possibly make the world more dangerous than it is now

Ok, you just said we have Russia's support. We also have Australia's, Great Britain's, Turkey's, Saudi Arabia's (grudgingly), Kuwait's (grudgingly), Israel's, almost all of NATO (except for the Axis of Weasels - France and Germany). Egypt, Jordan, and the other Middle Eastern countries will likely come on board by the time any action starts. How many more countries do we need?

How much time would you give the inspectors? Weeks? Months? Years? We would be stuck in the exact same situation now that we have been stuck in for the last 12 years. Giving the inspectors more time will give Saddam more time unless he decides tomorrow to come clean on his weapons (something he has NEVER done). While a couple of dozen inspectors are toiling around a country the size of California, Saddam will have his mobile labs producing more chemical and biological agents, he'll have his cronies moving his current weapons around, he'll continue to illegally import parts for weapons, he'll continue to use the money-for-oil funds to fund his-self and his military instead of helping his people (he used those funds to build a palace the size of Washington D.C. which is a place the inspectors have not been yet. Do you think Saddam will ever let them in there or allow them to thoroughly search it?).

 

[Corn]

Bah, you still haven't convinced me that giving the inspectors more time will work in Hussiens favor.

More time for what exactly? Didn't Blix already come to certain conclusions? Is Blix asking for more time?

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Corn

Bah, you still haven't convinced me that giving the inspectors more time will work in Hussiens favor.

More time for what exactly? Didn't Blix already come to certain conclusions? Is Blix asking for more time?

That's what I've been wondering. Blix gave a pretty damning report of how Iraq has failed comply to the latest UN Resolution. Hell, test firing ballistic missle and importing illegal missle parts alone should raise red flags all over the place.

 

[SlowSS]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i still don't see why anyone would reasonably think that the inspectors would see anything saddam doesn't want them to see. to me its unfathomable.

Iraq is a big country, about 168,000 square miles, not to mention underground tunnels and storage spaces.

He had four years to hide whatever wepons and programs that he had going on during those years,

It will be very difficult for UN inspectors to find any evidence given the manpower of UN Inspectors

and manipulativeness of Saddam.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Queasy
War should always be the last resort...and I think we have reached the end. This has been an ongoing problem since the end of the Gulf War. This was to be Saddam's Final Opportunity (after his previous 16 opportunities) to prove that he has cleaned up his act and is ready for Iraw to join the world community as a responsible and civilized nation. Hans Blix proved yesterday that Saddam has failed at this Final Opportunity. What will more inspections prove when it has already been proven that Saddam is in possession of illegal weapons, has purchased new weapons, and is currently testing weapons? The only thing that will do is give Saddam the most precious commodity he can receive....TIME.

Bah, you still haven't convinced me that giving the inspectors more time will work in Hussiens favor. Like I said, I believe that giving the inspectors more time would actually work in our favor as we would be able to garner the support of more countries plus the inspectors could conceivably come up with the evidence needed to convince those reluctant countries to participate in a military action to disarm Hussien.

I have no doubt that the US along with Britian could kick Hussiens ass, I just don't think we could effectively occupy Iraq afterwards which could possibly make the world more dangerous than it is now

Ok, you just said we have Russia's support. We also have Australia's, Great Britain's, Turkey's, Saudi Arabia's (grudgingly), Kuwait's (grudgingly), Israel's, almost all of NATO (except for the Axis of Weasels - France and Germany). Egypt, Jordan, and the other Middle Eastern countries will likely come on board by the time any action starts. How many more countries do we need?

How much time would you give the inspectors? Weeks? Months? Years? We would be stuck in the exact same situation now that we have been stuck in for the last 12 years. Giving the inspectors more time will give Saddam more time unless he decides tomorrow to come clean on his weapons (something he has NEVER done). While a couple of dozen inspectors are toiling around a country the size of California, Saddam will have his mobile labs producing more chemical and biological agents, he'll have his cronies moving his current weapons around, he'll continue to illegally import parts for weapons, he'll continue to use the money-for-oil funds to fund his-self and his military instead of helping his people (he used those funds to build a palace the size of Washington D.C. which is a place the inspectors have not been yet. Do you think Saddam will ever let them in there or allow them to thoroughly search it?).

We don't have Russia support now but we could if we agree to give the inspectors more time. We might even get support from countries like China who have a problem with Islamic Fundamentalists themselves.


Frankly I expect that we will have to forcibly remove Hussien from power, I just believe that we need to build up more support for it. If Bushes Adminstration can't do it then it will be their failure. I'm not convinced that giving the inspectors another 6 months or so will work in Hussiens favor but I do believe that it will work in ours.

Finally I'm not saying that I can't be convinced to change my mind because I can, I just need to hear arguments that are more convincing than the ones I've heard so far.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i still don't see why anyone would reasonably think that the inspectors would see anything saddam doesn't want them to see. to me its unfathomable.

Most of the World Community is requesting that the Inspectors be given more time. If Hussien refuse to co-operate that will only help us to build our case for a Multi-national force to take military actions to disarm him.

Do you think the the US and Britian can effectively occupy Iraq after we take out Hussien? How do we go about securing the areas of Iraq that are populated by Islamic Fundamentist that hate us as much as they hate Hussien and would be more than likely sympathetic to groups like Al Qaeda? We are still having a tough time securing Afghanstan what makes you think that the US and Britian alone could do the job in a much larger area like Iraq?

You have to look at the reasons those countries are asking for more time. People want to make this war about oil and it is not, at least not from the U.S. side. If you want to see a list of people who are really concerned about the oil in Iraq look no farther than the European countries opposed to the war. France and Germany are perfect examples of countries who stand to lose millions or billions if the oil contracts they have with Iraq are voided after an invasion. Also those two countries, especially France, have been skirting or flat out breaking the import/export sanctions put on Iraq after the Gulf War.

Can we effectively occupy Iraq? I think so. Plus I think the U.N. would be much more involved in an occupation of Iraq in a post war scenario than they were in Afghanistan. Why do I think that? Well mostly because the operation in Afghanistan was 90% U.S. and 10% from countries like the U.K. Not that the other countries didn't want to send more people over there, I just think the top brass that planned the operation was dead set on making the military action in Afghanistan an American action. Payback if you will. However if the U.N. drags it's feet and we end up having to be the majority of the occupying force than so be it. I think we can handle that.

More time for inspections will just be a waste. Iraq has had plenty of time and yet Hussein continues to defy the U.N. and play games with the inspectors. The text of U.N. Resolution 1441, the one that sent the inspectors back in, clearly states that Iraq is not in compliance with the resolutions that ended the Gulf War. The burden of proof is not on the inspectors to find WMD, the burden of proof is on Iraq to prove it has no WMD. Thus far they have not proven that and continue to play cat and mouse with the inspectors. The countries that are now crying for more time agreed to the text of 1441 and must now live by it. We cannot make this a game of resolution after resolution after resolution in the U.N. Either the U.N. has the backbone to go through with what it agreed to in 1441 or it doesn't. The choice for the U.N. is clear. Either it will stand up and do what it said it would do, or it will once again prove it's illegitimacy and hopefully fade into the dust bin of history.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: Codewiz
I have come to the conclusion that no matter how much evidence is provided their will be assclowns that will try to say it isn't real evidence or come up with some other lame excuse for not going to war.

We known N Korea has nukes. We have to take them seriously BUT we can't take a chance of them using nukes.

Iraq on the other hand is TRYING to get them. He is TRYING to get more WMD. We can kick his ass out of power and make the middle east a LITTLE more safe in doing so. The UN SC gave plenty of reason to kick Iraqs ass yesterday. I only needed one reason. That they were not cooperating which they aren't. So it is game time and we need to finish what we started in Desert Storm.

I guess the anti-war crazy people will say that the UN is just appeasing the US now. Which of course is just pure and utter BS. But that is what I expect out of the left-wing crazies.

I'm a right-wing "crazy", and that is exactly what the UN has been doing from the beginning.

You a right winger? Man you're so damn far to the left that you make Ralph Nader look like Barry Goldwater.

Actually, I liked Barry Goldwater. How do you define "right winger"?

 

[Red Dawn]

Can we effectively occupy Iraq? I think so. Plus I think the U.N. would be much more involved in an occupation of Iraq in a post war scenario than they were in Afghanistan. Why do I think that? Well mostly because the operation in Afghanistan was 90% U.S. and 10% from countries like the U.K. Not that the other countries didn't want to send more people over there, I just think the top brass that planned the operation was dead set on making the military action in Afghanistan an American action. Payback if you will. However if the U.N. drags it's feet and we end up having to be the majority of the occupying force than so be it. I think we can handle that.

Well the occupation of Iraq afterwards is my biggest concern.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: Codewiz
I have come to the conclusion that no matter how much evidence is provided their will be assclowns that will try to say it isn't real evidence or come up with some other lame excuse for not going to war.

We known N Korea has nukes. We have to take them seriously BUT we can't take a chance of them using nukes.

Iraq on the other hand is TRYING to get them. He is TRYING to get more WMD. We can kick his ass out of power and make the middle east a LITTLE more safe in doing so. The UN SC gave plenty of reason to kick Iraqs ass yesterday. I only needed one reason. That they were not cooperating which they aren't. So it is game time and we need to finish what we started in Desert Storm.

I guess the anti-war crazy people will say that the UN is just appeasing the US now. Which of course is just pure and utter BS. But that is what I expect out of the left-wing crazies.

I'm a right-wing "crazy", and that is exactly what the UN has been doing from the beginning.

You a right winger? Man you're so damn far to the left that you make Ralph Nader look like Barry Goldwater.

Actually, I liked Barry Goldwater. How do you define "right winger"?

The current definition of a "right winger" varies. My idea on that definition is someone who is ultra conservative and is on the fringe of the Republican Party. A "right winger" to me is someone like Pat Robertson. Sort of how a "left winger" is someone like Ralph Nader or Cynthia McKinney. No, I guess she is more of a nut case.

 

[Damage]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Can we effectively occupy Iraq? I think so. Plus I think the U.N. would be much more involved in an occupation of Iraq in a post war scenario than they were in Afghanistan. Why do I think that? Well mostly because the operation in Afghanistan was 90% U.S. and 10% from countries like the U.K. Not that the other countries didn't want to send more people over there, I just think the top brass that planned the operation was dead set on making the military action in Afghanistan an American action. Payback if you will. However if the U.N. drags it's feet and we end up having to be the majority of the occupying force than so be it. I think we can handle that.

Well the occupation of Iraq afterwards is my biggest concern.

I'm more worried about being blown up by WMD info that Saddam is giving to terrorists than I am what happens to the government afterwards.. Sorry.. i like my own a$$ in one peice. heheh...

 

[Damage]

Thera, hagard, Red, etc.. Could we stifle the slag fest? It's jamming up the thread, thanks! I respect all your opinions, but think we could do it without the needling..

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Damage

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Can we effectively occupy Iraq? I think so. Plus I think the U.N. would be much more involved in an occupation of Iraq in a post war scenario than they were in Afghanistan. Why do I think that? Well mostly because the operation in Afghanistan was 90% U.S. and 10% from countries like the U.K. Not that the other countries didn't want to send more people over there, I just think the top brass that planned the operation was dead set on making the military action in Afghanistan an American action. Payback if you will. However if the U.N. drags it's feet and we end up having to be the majority of the occupying force than so be it. I think we can handle that.

Well the occupation of Iraq afterwards is my biggest concern.

I'm more worried about being blown up by WMD info that Saddam is giving to terrorists than I am what happens to the government afterwards.. Sorry.. i like my own a$$ in one peice. heheh...

I'm worried about the terrorist getting the WMD's when vast areas of Iraq become No Mans land after we remove Hussien. Like you I don't give a sh!t about the Iraqi's just mine and my fellow Americans asses.

 

[Damage]

Axis of Weasels.. Buwahahaha... Thanks.. i love that..

 

[jahawkin]

Hell, test firing ballistic missle and importing illegal missle parts alone should raise red flags all over the place.

And both are great reasons for a war.

 

[JellyBaby]

What the U.S. doing here is proper. I don't trust the federal government and will not accept Bush's word Saddum is a threat to us.

Showing good evidence will help convince the stubborn types like myself that we ought to flip the bill and make the sacrafice to replace Saddum, liberate Iraq's oil, and help ensure neighboring oil is reliatvely safe for sale. Oh yeah, "free" the Iraqis, too, always a nice perk!

What will the U.N. decide if this evidence is compelling.....or not compelling?