U.S. must give the U.N. a broader role for Sanctions to be lifted???!!!

[dudleydocker]

:disgust:

This makes me sick

But Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov, speaking in Moscow, said economic sanctions cannot be lifted until a number of conditions required by Security Council resolutions ? including proof that Iraq has fully disarmed ? have been met.
?This decision cannot be automatic,? he said. ?For the Security Council to take this decision we need to be certain whether Iraq has weapons of mass destruction or not.? Russia and other council members maintain that it must be U.N. inspectors, not the U.S. military, who verify whether the country has been disarmed.
French President Jacques Chirac, attending a European Union summit in Athens, said sanctions could be lifted. But he said that ?naturally, it is up to the United Nations to define how.?


FVCK 'EM!!

 

[yowolabi]

They're UN resolutions. In order to lift UN sanctions, UN inspectors must certify that the conditions are met. Sounds reasonable to me.

And besides all that, I don't want to have to pay singlehandedly the costs of rebuilding Iraq because "administration officials" are holding a grudge against the UN. If the world wants to share the responsibility, fine by me.

It's not like we own Iraq now and can deny the UN a role anyway. Iraqis are making it pretty clear that they'll decide for themselves what happens in their country, and unless we start bombing again, whatever they want to happen will happen. If the UN comes in, there will be less worries about a US puppet government and things should progress easier.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: dudleydocker
:disgust:

This makes me sick

But Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov, speaking in Moscow, said economic sanctions cannot be lifted until a number of conditions required by Security Council resolutions ? including proof that Iraq has fully disarmed ? have been met.
?This decision cannot be automatic,? he said. ?For the Security Council to take this decision we need to be certain whether Iraq has weapons of mass destruction or not.? Russia and other council members maintain that it must be U.N. inspectors, not the U.S. military, who verify whether the country has been disarmed.
French President Jacques Chirac, attending a European Union summit in Athens, said sanctions could be lifted. But he said that ?naturally, it is up to the United Nations to define how.?


FVCK 'EM!!

Why does it make you sick? Why should the US be above all the laws of the world? Maybe the US shouldn't have put sanctions on in the first place. Blame your two faced government.

 

[charrison]

It seems to me it has been the US carrying the heavy load enforcing the sanctions over the past 12 years. I think we should declare Iraq a free trade with the US and continue to enforce a non trade zone with everyone else.


The UN is just getting silly.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Maybe the US shouldn't have put sanctions on in the first place. Blame your two faced government.

Those would be UN sanctions we're talking about Barney. I know it's a common misconception but you should try to rise above it.

 

[NightTrain]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife Maybe the US shouldn't have put sanctions on in the first place.

The poster makes a valid point. They are obviously US sanctions and we can lift them anytime we please.

Blame your two faced government.

Michigan? Your?

 

[Mrburns2007]

LOL...The point is that Saddam is now ousted and the US is currently occupying the country. Any fears that the Iraqis won't disarm are rather silly since they don't actually have a government anymore.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Dudley, I think you are just plain wrong.

Russia, like the US, has every right to use all means at its disposal to shape world politics. If they want to use their UN veto against US unilateralism in Iraq, more power to them.

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: charrison
It seems to me it has been the US carrying the heavy load enforcing the sanctions over the past 12 years. I think we should declare Iraq a free trade with the US and continue to enforce a non trade zone with everyone else.


The UN is just getting silly.

Last I heard the UN didn't ask for the US to take it upon themselves to be judge, jury and executioner or policer of UN resolutions. I am still amazed at the hypocrisy of non-compliantly invading Iraq for reasons of non-compliance.

 

[SuperTool]

Russia, France, China, and pretty much everyone in the region wanted the sanctions lifted or relaxed long time ago, but US and UK have blocked that effort for 12 years. Why can't Russia do the same now?
They will lift the sanctions when they are satisfied that the WMD is not in Iraq, and that probably will not happen until they get some piece of the rebuilding Iraq action.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Russia, France, China, and pretty much everyone in the region wanted the sanctions lifted or relaxed long time ago, but US and UK have blocked that effort for 12 years. Why can't Russia do the same now?
They will lift the sanctions when they are satisfied that the WMD is not in Iraq, and that probably will not happen until they get some piece of the rebuilding Iraq action.

Yup, and it seems perfectly fair to me. Anyone else who argues otherwise is just jingoistic and chauvinistic.

 

[Conky]

Nice move UN, penalize the Iraqi's for your anger at the USA.

The sanctions were to be lifted when Iraq was disarmed. The USA has disarmed Iraq. It's really about that simple.

 

[SuperTool]

US has penalized Iraqi's for its anger at Saddam Hussein for 12 years. Nice move, US.
US said Iraq had WMD, it has not found WMD in Iraq. Therefore, the WMD is still out there somewhere. When Bush gets his lies all straightened out, maybe then he can ask for sanctions to be lifted.
The sancitons were to be lifted when UN inspectors verify that Iraq is free of WMD. That has not happened. It's really about that simple.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
US has penalized Iraqi's for its anger at Saddam Hussein for 12 years. Nice move, US.
US said Iraq had WMD, it has not found WMD in Iraq. Therefore, the WMD is still out there somewhere. When Bush gets his lies all straightened out, maybe then he can ask for sanctions to be lifted.
The sancitons were to be lifted when UN inspectors verify that Iraq is free of WMD. That has not happened. It's really about that simple.

Can you believe people like to make fun of my name? Nobodie's ever said anything like that to you, have they?

 

[SuperTool]

Oh yes they have
I think the sanctions in this form should never have been imposed. Sanctions should only be limited to military goods, and not to civilian goods, or oil, which sustains Iraqi economy.
Economic sanctions should be outlawed. They clearly target the civilian population, and as such are an act of terrorism, and a crime against humanity.
But I would like to hear the US cry crocodile tears at the UN, because every claim that sanctions now are unjust are an indictment of the US support of these sanctions during the last 12 years.
But Russia has as much right to demand UN weapons inspectors certify that Iraq is free of WMD before lifting sanctions as the US had. There is nothing in this sanctions that says they are automatically lifted when Saddam leaves.
The sanctions are about WMD, not Saddam.
US is on one hand saying that they are hoping someone will tip them to the location of the WMD, and on the other hand saying that there are no WMD in Iraq.
US on one hand goes to war because it claims the UN isn't enforcing the sanctions, and on the other hand criticizes the UN for enforcing the sanctions.
US on one hand has supported UN sanctions that killed millions of innocent people in Iraq for 12 years, and on the other hand says that sanctions need to be lifted ASAP to rebuild Iraq.
US wants to make new rules when they are convenient for it, but wants everyone else to forget the rules US has made, when they are convenient for them.
Can't have it both ways.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: dudleydocker
:disgust:

This makes me sick

But Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov, speaking in Moscow, said economic sanctions cannot be lifted until a number of conditions required by Security Council resolutions ? including proof that Iraq has fully disarmed ? have been met.
?This decision cannot be automatic,? he said. ?For the Security Council to take this decision we need to be certain whether Iraq has weapons of mass destruction or not.? Russia and other council members maintain that it must be U.N. inspectors, not the U.S. military, who verify whether the country has been disarmed.
French President Jacques Chirac, attending a European Union summit in Athens, said sanctions could be lifted. But he said that ?naturally, it is up to the United Nations to define how.?


FVCK 'EM!!

Russia's main concern is Iraqi oil hitting the market driving down the price of their own, they are already having enough trouble moving enough.

For years France and Russia have pushed for the end to sanctions WITHOUT full compliance from Saddam, funny that change of heart started in 1996 when the bulk of the money Saddam controlled in the food for oil program went to those 2, roughy 2 billion a year each.

SO they thought ending sanctions when Saddam was still in power and had not complied and proved he destroyed the WMD he admitted having was ok, but now that he is gone the proof is required?

They should be happy the US tossed the 8 billion in reconstruction contracts, and better hope we can't tracethe modern French weapons we found back to them.... Funny the US managed to make sure no American made weapons made it into Iraq...

 

[mastertech01]

Russia and France have been strictly abiding by UN sanctions all along havent they?. They have denied everything to Iraq but weapons galore for oil.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: dudleydocker
:disgust:

This makes me sick

But Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov, speaking in Moscow, said economic sanctions cannot be lifted until a number of conditions required by Security Council resolutions ? including proof that Iraq has fully disarmed ? have been met.
?This decision cannot be automatic,? he said. ?For the Security Council to take this decision we need to be certain whether Iraq has weapons of mass destruction or not.? Russia and other council members maintain that it must be U.N. inspectors, not the U.S. military, who verify whether the country has been disarmed.
French President Jacques Chirac, attending a European Union summit in Athens, said sanctions could be lifted. But he said that ?naturally, it is up to the United Nations to define how.?


FVCK 'EM!!

Russia's main concern is Iraqi oil hitting the market driving down the price of their own, they are already having enough trouble moving enough.

Iraq owes Russia $8B + interest
Iraq's economic ties to Iraq are far beyond oil. Anything from agricultural equipment, to cars, to tires, to industrial goods. It's a large impact on the Russian economy.

For years France and Russia have pushed for the end to sanctions WITHOUT full compliance from Saddam, funny that change of heart started in 1996 when the bulk of the money Saddam controlled in the food for oil program went to those 2, roughy 2 billion a year each.

Russia and France's trade with Iraq prior to economic sanctions far exceeded these puny 2 billion each.
US didn't want to lift sanctions for 12 years until UN inspectors certified Iraq free of WMD.
Funny that they had a change of heart, and now want the UN to lift the sanctions not only without UN inspectors certifying Iraq free of WMD, but also while claiming that Iraq had WMD prior to the war, and haven't found any of that WMD yet.

SO they thought ending sanctions when Saddam was still in power and had not complied and proved he destroyed the WMD he admitted having was ok, but now that he is gone the proof is required?

SO the US thought ending sanctions when Saddam was still in power and UN has not certified and proved that he destroyed the WMD was not ok, but now that he is gone the proof is no longer required?

They should be happy the US tossed the 8 billion in reconstruction contracts, and better hope we can't tracethe modern French weapons we found back to them.... Funny the US managed to make sure no American made weapons made it into Iraq...

The US should not be deciding who gets what contracts in Iraq. Iraq is not our colony.

 

[NightTrain]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
The US should not be deciding who gets what contracts in Iraq. Iraq is not our colony.

Who will rebuild the infrastructure if not us?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: NightTrain

Originally posted by: SuperTool
The US should not be deciding who gets what contracts in Iraq. Iraq is not our colony.

Who will rebuild the infrastructure if not us?

Whoever the Iraqis hire to rebuild it. If they built it in the first place in the 20th century, they can rebuild it again in the 21st. They have oil revenues, they can figure it out.
I know you think US is the only country in the world that can build roads and sewers, but you might be amazed to find out that other countries have roads and sewers, gasp, that the US didn't build.
If they want to have the US companies build their infrastructure, they can decide that on their own, without us deciding for them.

 

[NightTrain]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
The US should not be deciding who gets what contracts in Iraq. Iraq is not our colony.

Who will rebuild the infrastructure if not us?[/quote]
Whoever the Iraqis hire to rebuild it. If they built it in the first place in the 20th century, they can rebuild it again in the 21st. They have oil revenues, they can figure it out.[/quote]

So what is our next move then? Leave? Without hour help, they can't even protect themselves...right now they don't seem to be able to even with our help. Who will get some semblance of a government set up? Who will get all the necessities for normal everyday life up and running? It's unrealistic to just say "let the Iraqis do it."

 

[SuperTool]

What does that have to do with the rebuilding contracts? Why does our protecting Iraq necessitate US companies getting all the contracts? You are going to tell me we are there to protect Iraqis from invasion just as we have invaded them?

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: dudleydocker
:disgust:

This makes me sick

But Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov, speaking in Moscow, said economic sanctions cannot be lifted until a number of conditions required by Security Council resolutions ? including proof that Iraq has fully disarmed ? have been met.
?This decision cannot be automatic,? he said. ?For the Security Council to take this decision we need to be certain whether Iraq has weapons of mass destruction or not.? Russia and other council members maintain that it must be U.N. inspectors, not the U.S. military, who verify whether the country has been disarmed.
French President Jacques Chirac, attending a European Union summit in Athens, said sanctions could be lifted. But he said that ?naturally, it is up to the United Nations to define how.?


FVCK 'EM!!

Before we invaded, Russia was quite sure that Saddam was complying fully with U.N. resolutions. But now they think Iraq has WMD. Curious

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
What does that have to do with the rebuilding contracts? Why does our protecting Iraq necessitate US companies getting all the contracts? You are going to tell me we are there to protect Iraqis from invasion just as we have invaded them?

US companies are not going to get all of the contracts. They will get the initial ones and then sub-contract out parts of them to other companies. If you bothered reading the news reports you would know that.

 

[Tiger]

Maybe the US shouldn't have put sanctions on in the first place. Blame your two faced government.

We, the US, didn't put the sanctions on. The UN did. A little trouble with reading comprehension today?

There's a big difference between lifting the sanctions and giving the UN control of post Saddam Iraq.
Once the sanctions are lifted the new Iraqi government can sell oil to rebuild it's economy.
I have no problem letting the UN inspectors back in right now.