U.S. judge finds Texas voter ID law was intended to discriminate

[Jhhnn]

How do you know an ID isn't required when picking up or applying for foodstamps/welfare in the US? That might be true in Canada, but here in the US an ID is required.

Have you ever tried picking up food stamps in the US? I've gone with my mom and they ask for ID.

IIRC, N Carolina issues ID for food stamps & etc. It just wasn't good enough to get voter ID under their unconstitutional law, that's all.

Pretty slick, huh?

 

[ColdFusion718]

Photo ID is not required in the US for SNAP benefits. You do have to verify your identity but there are a number of other ways you can do so without a photo ID. They ask for ID because it's the easiest, not because it is required.

So you've never actually tried getting those benefits without an ID? Try telling the government worker what their website says vs how things are done. See how that works out.

Poor people know this. The smart ones do whatever it takes to get their IDs so they don't fucked by bureaucratic bullshit.

Source: I'm former welfare/foodstamps recipient

 

[sandorski]

So you've never actually tried getting those benefits without an ID? Try telling the government worker what their website says vs how things are done. See how that works out.

Poor people know this. The smart ones do whatever it takes to get their IDs so they don't fucked by bureaucratic bullshit.

Source: I'm former welfare/foodstamps recipient

Think about this: If ID that is required to Vote were the same as ID required to receive Food Stamps/Welfare, would this conversation be happening?

 

[fskimospy]

So you've never actually tried getting those benefits without an ID? Try telling the government worker what their website says vs how things are done. See how that works out.

Poor people know this. The smart ones do whatever it takes to get their IDs so they don't fucked by bureaucratic bullshit.

Source: I'm former welfare/foodstamps recipient

It's not about what the website says, its about what the law and applicable regulations say. I imagine it will be considerably more time consuming to get those benefits without ID but it would be illegal to deny you them. There are plenty of interest groups that assist the poor who would have entered litigation against the government if it was breaking the law like you suggest.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

How do you know an ID isn't required when picking up or applying for foodstamps/welfare in the US? That might be true in Canada, but here in the US an ID is required.

Have you ever tried picking up food stamps in the US? I've gone with my mom and they ask for ID.

There's this new think called the internet where you can look this type of thing up. I did that.

Clearly you did not and yet here you persist as though you're more informed than I due to your geographical location.

Do go on.

 

[ColdFusion718]

There's this new think called the internet where you can look this type of thing up. I did that.

Clearly you did not and yet here you persist as though you're more informed than I due to your geographical location.

Do go on.

Wow look at you and your skills with the interwebs! You tell me what a website says and I tell you how things work in the real world, on the ground. I live in the real world. You live in Canada.

I like that you think you know so much more about how things work in my country than I do.

 

[fskimospy]

Wow look at you and your skills with the interwebs! You tell me what a website says and I tell you how things work in the real world, on the ground. I live in the real world. You live in Canada.

I like that you think you know so much more about how things work in my country than I do.

So again your claim is that SNAP offices are in constant violation of federal law and regulations regarding this program?

If this is the case we have a pretty serious scandal on our hands and if you feel that you can prove this you should notify advocacy groups and the media right away as this will be at least a fairly important news story.

 

[ColdFusion718]

So again your claim is that SNAP offices are in constant violation of federal law and regulations regarding this program?

If this is the case we have a pretty serious scandal on our hands and if you feel that you can prove this you should notify advocacy groups and the media right away as this will be at least a fairly important news story.

It happened all the time when I was a kid and still happens today. My mom works with these families and shows them the "trade secrets."

There's federal law + what a website says and how things work in real life. My point is, if an old lady like my mom who doesn't speak much English can figure out how to get an ID AND show others how to do it, this whole argument about poor people being unable to navigate their way to getting one is a bit condescending, wouldn't you agree?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Wow look at you and your skills with the interwebs! You tell me what a website says and I tell you how things work in the real world, on the ground. I live in the real world. You live in Canada.

I like that you think you know so much more about how things work in my country than I do.

You might want to check the colour of the sky in your world. You're arguing that the poor who use the social safety nets have to have photo ID to get those benefits. The same people who don't have the photo ID necessary to vote.

That's really what you're arguing here?

 

[fskimospy]

It happened all the time when I was a kid and still happens today. My mom works with these families and shows them the "trade secrets."

Again, this is a violation of federal law. If your mom works to help these families why has she not notified the appropriate authorities of this? Instead of helping them one at a time she could help them all at once.

I strongly suspect the reason for this is what you're saying isn't actually true.

There's federal law + what a website says and how things work in real life. My point is, if an old lady like my mom who doesn't speak much English can figure out how to get an ID AND show others how to do it, this whole argument about poor people being unable to navigate their way to getting one is a bit condescending, wouldn't you agree?

Of course it isn't condescending, what you're doing right now is showing that you don't know what you're talking about. The obstacle to poor and elderly people getting photo IDs isn't that they can't figure out how to do it, it's that in some cases they lack the needed documentation, which can be impossible to replace, they live extremely far from an appropriate office and can't afford to take the time off, they lack the funds to procure the needed documents, etc.

I mean did you really think liberals were arguing against photo ID because they thought poor people were to dumb to figure out where they needed to go? lol.

Also, and more importantly, there's no need to debate photo ID laws in this way. The reason they should be opposed is because they are irrational, not because of disproportionate burdens on the poor. They are laws designed to prevent a crime that for all intents and purposes does not exist. This is not rational thinking.

 

[Maxima1]

My point is, if an old lady like my mom who doesn't speak much English can figure out how to get an ID AND show others how to do it, this whole argument about poor people being unable to navigate their way to getting one is a bit condescending, wouldn't you agree?

Again, anecdotes don't prove jack. Quit being obtuse. Why do you think GOP allows fallback ID that benefits them (e.g. concealed carry)? What do you think will happen if one side has more people with driver's licenses, etc.? So stop suggesting it's about not being smart enough to get an ID.

 

[Maxima1]

Also, and more importantly, there's no need to debate photo ID laws in this way. The reason they should be opposed is because they are irrational, not because of disproportionate burdens on the poor. They are laws designed to prevent a crime that for all intents and purposes does not exist. This is not rational thinking.

The GOP proves it every day what it's really about. The Trump-Russia reaction has taken it to a new level. Anyone who parrots the BS talking points the GOP has about voter ID is either being disingenuous or they're quite frankly stupid.

 

[ColdFusion718]

You might want to check the colour of the sky in your world. You're arguing that the poor who use the social safety nets have to have photo ID to get those benefits. The same people who don't have the photo ID necessary to vote.

That's really what you're arguing here?

The Left often argues against having a photo ID for voting and cites poor people being unable to obtain such an ID. The reasons they give are either poor people are too dumb to navigate through the process or simply don't know where the various govt offices are located in order to get their paper work to obtain a photo ID.

At the same time, these same poor people are somehow able to get their benefits which require (in practice) a photo ID.

Yes you are correct that SNAP doesn't require a photo ID, just that the recipient verifies their identity. In practice, the poor people already have their photo IDs.

Again, this is a violation of federal law. If your mom works to help these families why has she not notified the appropriate authorities of this? Instead of helping them one at a time she could help them all at once.

I strongly suspect the reason for this is what you're saying isn't actually true.



Of course it isn't condescending, what you're doing right now is showing that you don't know what you're talking about. The obstacle to poor and elderly people getting photo IDs isn't that they can't figure out how to do it, it's that in some cases they lack the needed documentation, which can be impossible to replace, they live extremely far from an appropriate office and can't afford to take the time off, they lack the funds to procure the needed documents, etc.

I mean did you really think liberals were arguing against photo ID because they thought poor people were to dumb to figure out where they needed to go? lol.

Also, and more importantly, there's no need to debate photo ID laws in this way. The reason they should be opposed is because they are irrational, not because of disproportionate burdens on the poor. They are laws designed to prevent a crime that for all intents and purposes does not exist. This is not rational thinking.

You got any sources to data to back this claim up? Someone else here said "anecdotes don't prove jack," so I guess we shouldn't use anecdotes anymore.

 

[ColdFusion718]

The GOP proves it every day what it's really about. The Trump-Russia reaction has taken it to a new level. Anyone who parrots the BS talking points the GOP has about voter ID is either being disingenuous or they're quite frankly stupid.

Well since you charge anyone who disagrees with you as being stupid, but since you're saying in a "quite frankly" way, it quite frankly must be true because you said so right?

 

[Jhhnn]

It happened all the time when I was a kid and still happens today. My mom works with these families and shows them the "trade secrets."

There's federal law + what a website says and how things work in real life. My point is, if an old lady like my mom who doesn't speak much English can figure out how to get an ID AND show others how to do it, this whole argument about poor people being unable to navigate their way to getting one is a bit condescending, wouldn't you agree?

Gawd. Given that in person voter fraud is extremely rare & insignificant, it makes no sense to enact strict voter ID laws. Going on with the "it's easy to get ID" spiel is like saying "It doesn't have to make sense" & actually believing it.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

The Left often argues against having a photo ID for voting and cites poor people being unable to obtain such an ID. The reasons they give are either poor people are too dumb to navigate through the process or simply don't know where the various govt offices are located in order to get their paper work to obtain a photo ID.

No one has ever stated this. Anywhere. Please cite one link where someone against the laws made these statements. Not your strawman, them actually saying it. The problem here is you can't/won't discuss the topic honestly. You want to distort it into something it isn't since you can't argue the merits.

And you've now agreed with my point that started this all. You plainly stated Photo ID was needed to get the benefits. The fact of the matter is the people who use the benefits are the same people who lack the necessary ID to vote. Millions of people.

Let me put this to you another way. If you have sufficient ID to get a job, work, pay taxes etc... why isn't that enough to vote? Why do the voter ID laws, that aren't needed in the first place, always end up being so restrictive that working taxpayers still don't have the ability to vote their representation under those laws.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So you've never actually tried getting those benefits without an ID? Try telling the government worker what their website says vs how things are done. See how that works out.

Poor people know this. The smart ones do whatever it takes to get their IDs so they don't fucked by bureaucratic bullshit.

Source: I'm former welfare/foodstamps recipient

It's on my states website, and I've applied, no photo ID required.

I was denied, but not due to my ID verification.

 

[fskimospy]

The Left often argues against having a photo ID for voting and cites poor people being unable to obtain such an ID. The reasons they give are either poor people are too dumb to navigate through the process or simply don't know where the various govt offices are located in order to get their paper work to obtain a photo ID.

Can you point us to a case where 'The Left' argues that poor people are too dumb to get IDs?

At the same time, these same poor people are somehow able to get their benefits which require (in practice) a photo ID.

Yes you are correct that SNAP doesn't require a photo ID, just that the recipient verifies their identity. In practice, the poor people already have their photo IDs.

Clearly not, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You got any sources to data to back this claim up? Someone else here said "anecdotes don't prove jack," so I guess we shouldn't use anecdotes anymore.

There have been surveys to this effect and if you look up any one of the many, many rulings striking down voter ID laws you will see they reference other statistics on why the poor have difficulty getting ID.

http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/d/download_file_39242.pdf

There's really no reason for this to be a controversial issue. Voter ID laws are irrational and we shouldn't have irrational laws.