U.S. judge finds Texas voter ID law was intended to discriminate

[Jhhnn]

Lmfao! Anti-democracy?

I won't go over the usual talking points, like having an ID for a majority of living activities, but if you're not willing or capable to have an ID, you're not mentally stable or capable of voting.

You talk about the poor, as if they're stupid and ignorant. I choose to think people are very well capable. You have years to get a state ID, that is required for almost any social safety net and activity.

Enough of your bull, and lies. It's exhausting listening to you.

The best part of that lovely rant is that you did exactly what I said- you avoided the central issue entirely.

Show me significant voter fraud & we can talk, OK? If you can't do that then the rest of it is immaterial, a basket of red herrings.

 

[Zstream]

The best part of that lovely rant is that you did exactly what I said- you avoided the central issue entirely.

Show me significant voter fraud & we can talk, OK? If you can't do that then the rest of it is immaterial, a basket of red herrings.

No need, remember your platform.

"The poor are stupid and incapable" - having any requirements is just racism or which is it today?

 

[TeeJay1952]

@Zstream That is the definition of Strawman Argument.
NO one is saying stupid or lazy. However there is evidence of Voter Suppression using these tactics. (Judges have ruled)

 

[brycejones]

When you stop engaging the hyperbole of poor = stupid, we can have an honest debate.

Just because people are poor does not make them stupid, and incapable.

The only person in this thread saying poor = stupid is you.

So I ask again why are you personally unable to engage in an honest discussion on this topic?

 

[fskimospy]

No need, remember your platform.

"The poor are stupid and incapable" - having any requirements is just racism or which is it today?

You are trying way too hard. This is just embarrassing.

 

[Jhhnn]

No need, remember your platform.

"The poor are stupid and incapable" - having any requirements is just racism or which is it today?

Except I never said that. My post that you originally quoted said nothing about poor people or about race.

And, like I said before, you're desperately dodging the central issue, that you can't show cause for strict voter ID in the slightest. Voter fraud is the boogieman, one among several in the pantheon of right wing beliefs.

 

[sandorski]

If you keep saying something stupid repeatedly, apparently it no longer sounds stupid.

 

[shortylickens]

All the stuff you need a photo ID for is not a constitutional right.
Driving is a privilege, not a right. Its the first thing stated in damn near EVERY drivers manual.
Hunting? Fishing? Camping?
Amazingly, not constitutional rights.
Drinking? Smoking?
Also not constitutional rights. They did repeal the federal ban on drinking, but they never said it was a Right.
Owning a weapon IS a constitutional right, but there is also a law requiring a background check each time you buy one. That means some sort of identification.

If we had to do background checks each time someone voted we would never get anything done. Elections would take months instead of days.

 

[Jhhnn]

All the stuff you need a photo ID for is not a constitutional right.
Driving is a privilege, not a right. Its the first thing stated in damn near EVERY drivers manual.
Hunting? Fishing? Camping?
Amazingly, not constitutional rights.
Drinking? Smoking?
Also not constitutional rights. They did repeal the federal ban on drinking, but they never said it was a Right.
Owning a weapon IS a constitutional right, but there is also a law requiring a background check each time you buy one. That means some sort of identification.

If we had to do background checks each time someone voted we would never get anything done. Elections would take months instead of days.

Why go there at all? Strict voter ID is a solution in search of a problem that doesn't exist. In person voter fraud is vanishingly rare.

 

[Maxima1]

When you stop engaging the hyperbole of poor = stupid, we can have an honest debate.

Just because people are poor does not make them stupid, and incapable.

Are you stupid or what? The fact is that strict voter ID lowers participation. Are you denying that? We can't have an honest debate with an idiot.

 

[Zstream]

Are you stupid or what? The fact is that strict voter ID lowers participation. Are you denying that? We can't have an honest debate with an idiot.

Ok genius, why does it lower participation rate, and why should people with no identity be allowed to vote? Are you wanting those people that can't even function in society be manipulated into voting for whomever? Could it be that the poor will vote for more government assistance and government control? While you think the boogeyman is out there to get your people, you're doing the exact same thing by manipulating poor people.

It's quite funny if you ask me. This whole left is morally superior for sticking up for the "poor" is laughable at best.

I'll take a screenshot of my donations to the poor and we can compare true compassion.

 

[sandorski]

Ok genius, why does it lower participation rate, and why should people with no identity be allowed to vote? Are you wanting those people that can't even function in society be manipulated into voting for whomever? Could it be that the poor will vote for more government assistance and government control? While you think the boogeyman is out there to get your people, you're doing the exact same thing by manipulating poor people.

It's quite funny if you ask me. This whole left is morally superior for sticking up for the "poor" is laughable at best.

I'll take a screenshot of my donations to the poor and we can compare true compassion.

Protip: You might wanna learn something....like how Voting works currently.

 

[Paratus]

Ok genius, why does it lower participation rate, and why should people with no identity be allowed to vote? Are you wanting those people that can't even function in society be manipulated into voting for whomever? Could it be that the poor will vote for more government assistance and government control? While you think the boogeyman is out there to get your people, you're doing the exact same thing by manipulating poor people.

It's quite funny if you ask me. This whole left is morally superior for sticking up for the "poor" is laughable at best.

I'll take a screenshot of my donations to the poor and we can compare true compassion.

It's funny that the guy with the "Don't Tread on Me" avatar wants to tread all over the 4.5% of my states voters who would no longer have "appropriate" ID under these new laws.

I also enjoy the fact that you seem to think it's super easy to get your photo ID from the state. It's like you picture going to get your records at the county courthouse or DMV like this:

Instead of this:

4 hours later:
"Oh I'm sorry Miss 80 year old with a walker who's voted every election until now, your birth certificate has a different last name than your social security card you'll need to get an updated birth certificate before we can give you your 'free voters ID'. NEXT"

A month later, after filing by mail for an updated birth certificate in the state she was born:
"We regret to inform you without the marriage certificate you lost we cannot accept your affidavit that your name was changed. Once you've received a new certificate please resend your affidavit and the official certificate and allow 3-4 weeks for processing."

After contacting the state she was married in:

"Mrs 80 year old who hasn't driven in a decade, since your husband passed away and cannot sign the request for a new marriage certificate we will require you to appear at the courthouse and sign an affidavit in person for a new copy of your marriage certificate as our marriage records only go back to 1964. So we have unfortunately lost yours. Pleas bring two forms of identification. "

This is the kind of shit the courts have found are preventing American citizens from obtaining these "free IDs". I and others have linked to it about a half dozen times in this thread alone.

But hey Zstream as a conservative your view that state bureaucracy is simple, effective, and efficient is very refreshing. I mean it makes me wonder why you've never gone to get a drivers license or passport before and if you are 17 and live in your parents basement but it still is refreshing.

 

[Sunburn74]

Ok genius, why does it lower participation rate,

Look at if from another standpoint. The government has a very very hard time getting people to pay their taxes, even though everyone HAS to do it legally. The government actually goes out if its way to make paying taxes as easy as possible. If you are not able to get your taxes done in time, you can get extensions almost ad naseum with a pretty simple form. They allow payment plans, will negotiate all sorts of things with you for something you legally have to do. Because its not in the government's best interest to throw people in prison. They'd rather collect some taxes than no taxes at all, and even worse pay money to incarcerate someone. Its not perfect, but clearly they take steps to do this. There are all sorts of governement assistance programs for poor and disadvantaged people for tax filing and tax preparation. There are entirely divisions within the IRS who are think tanks on how to improve this process to increase the yield of returns. The reason is, even a 1% drop off in taxes paid to the US government is highly highly noticeable. They can't afford it.

I assure you, no one is stating when it comes to the filing and paying of taxes "hey we should request that everyone who files taxes submit a copy of their DL or passport as well". The reason its clear. Its a small hurdle, yes. Most people can clear it no problem. However certainly that hurdle will trip some people up and get them to not pay their taxes on time or at all and the government cannot have that happen. That again is for something that legally we HAVE to do. Talk less of creating another hurdle for something that is completely optional and largely symbolic anyway.

This principle exists in almost every field. That coffeemaker you bought, they tried to make it as simple as possible because they know even one extra step will return in some percentage of people saying "F this and taking it back to the store". The same is true of your TV, or your microwave, etc etc That just simply is the nature of people.

If you want people not to vote, make the process complex. At a step here and an extra step there. The same is true of abortion (with the law the SCOTUS reversed which added a large amount of unnecessary regulations as a means to shut down clinics which worked brilliantly by the way. The SCOTUS ruling came way late and all the clinics had already closed). The reverse is true of say gun ownership. There is a law in texas right now being floated that is trying to waive the mandatory 6 hour gun safety training class for concealed licenses. That aim of this law is simple "to make it concealed gun licenses more accessible". Its not rocket science. its politics and the poor are the targets, just like the poor are often the targets when tax cuts and responsibilities are being shifted in washington or when wars are being proposed and etc. You 2 dollar charity contribution is one thing. Trying to prevent them from dying in unnecessary wars that don't benefit them is another.

 

[Jhhnn]

Ok genius, why does it lower participation rate, and why should people with no identity be allowed to vote? Are you wanting those people that can't even function in society be manipulated into voting for whomever? Could it be that the poor will vote for more government assistance and government control? While you think the boogeyman is out there to get your people, you're doing the exact same thing by manipulating poor people.

It's quite funny if you ask me. This whole left is morally superior for sticking up for the "poor" is laughable at best.

I'll take a screenshot of my donations to the poor and we can compare true compassion.

Riiight... Now show me the fraud. If you can't do that, none of the rest of it matters at all. You simply cannot show any significant in person voter fraud problem in the current system of voter registration & identification.

I'm sure you don't realize it but you reveal a classist disdain for poor people. Why, they'll just vote for more ebil gubmint assistance! They don't even function in Society!

 

[soundforbjt]

Bottom line is show me the real need for these laws and I'll be all for them. I thought conservatives were all about getting rid of useless laws & regulations. It's amazing none of these laws were needed before, what dramatic event happened that dictated the abrupt need for these laws?

 

[fskimospy]

Bottom line is show me the real need for these laws and I'll be all for them. I thought conservatives were all about getting rid of useless laws & regulations. It's amazing none of these laws were needed before, what dramatic event happened that dictated the abrupt need for these laws?

It really is this simple and it's pathetic how hard conservatives try and dance around this basic idea. If the kind of fraud that voter ID can prevent is happening then just show us the evidence. If you can do that I'm 100% onboard. They never do this because they can't.

It is really bizarre how irrational politics makes people. They claim that they want to pass a law to stop a problem that they know doesn't exist. Weird.

 

[TheVrolok]

It really is this simple and it's pathetic how hard conservatives try and dance around this basic idea. If the kind of fraud that voter ID can prevent is happening then just show us the evidence. If you can do that I'm 100% onboard. They never do this because they can't.

It is really bizarre how irrational politics makes people. They claim that they want to pass a law to stop a problem that they know doesn't exist. Weird.

One bad guy with a vote (insert random anecdote about the handful of illegal voting attempts) and it's a travesty that requires new regulation. One bad guy with a gun (insert any number of the mass shootings over the past decade) and it's just an unfortunate circumstance and now we need more guns and less restriction! Makes sense.

 

[ColdFusion718]

Literally everything you said is bullshit. All of it. You don't need a government issued photo ID for any social safety net and the people who don't have one have somehow managed to live as long as they have without one. I mean Jesus it's the poor and elderly, you know, the ones living with the help of social safety nets, who lack ID the most. Your characterization of mentally unstable or incapable of voting is just laughably ridiculous.

People don't need a photo ID to sign up for welfare and food stamps?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Google it man. I looked into it a few years back in my state, you don't need a photo ID to apply. You need to verify who you aee, but drivers licenses aren't required....a birth certificate qualifies also

 

[MomentsofSanity]

People don't need a photo ID to sign up for welfare and food stamps?

No you don't. This has been the entire point. What's typically allowed to be used to vote is very narrow. There are far broader options one can use to identify themselves for social programs etc.

In Canada we have to "identify" ourselves to vote. If you have photo ID great. Quick and easy. If not there are about 50 other things you can use to establish your identity. In the states that list is very short. It doesn't have to be.

 

[hal2kilo]

Bottom line is show me the real need for these laws and I'll be all for them. I thought conservatives were all about getting rid of useless laws & regulations. It's amazing none of these laws were needed before, what dramatic event happened that dictated the abrupt need for these laws?

Well, just a thought... The last president was a .... not white.

 

[agent00f]

I know, right? The collective Anandtech left wing brain trust believes the poor are too stupid and ignorant to get an ID.

We know that's not true because trump dominates the low edu/iq demographic and many millions of them vote just fine.

 

[ColdFusion718]

No you don't. This has been the entire point. What's typically allowed to be used to vote is very narrow. There are far broader options one can use to identify themselves for social programs etc.

In Canada we have to "identify" ourselves to vote. If you have photo ID great. Quick and easy. If not there are about 50 other things you can use to establish your identity. In the states that list is very short. It doesn't have to be.

How do you know an ID isn't required when picking up or applying for foodstamps/welfare in the US? That might be true in Canada, but here in the US an ID is required.

Have you ever tried picking up food stamps in the US? I've gone with my mom and they ask for ID.

 

[fskimospy]

How do you know an ID isn't required when picking up or applying for foodstamps/welfare in the US? That might be true in Canada, but here in the US an ID is required.

Have you ever tried picking up food stamps in the US? I've gone with my mom and they ask for ID.

Photo ID is not required in the US for SNAP benefits. You do have to verify your identity but there are a number of other ways you can do so without a photo ID. They ask for ID because it's the easiest, not because it is required.