Two students expelled for bringing confederate flag to school

[Knowing]

You do understand that in the U.S. the right of 'free speech' relates to the government and citizen relationship don't you? And, even in public schools, the Supreme Court has ruled that there is no absolute right of free speech.

I understand both of those things perfectly well.

If you're going to argue that their indefinite expulsion was not an abridgement of their 1st amendment rights (which they retain), then lets look at the justification. We can examine the bylaws and whatever contracts govern attendance.

 

[Victorian Gray]

So that supreme court case didn't actually happen?

Which one? Tinker v Des Moines? Bethel v Fraser? Morse v Frederick? Hazelwood v Kuhlmeier?

 

[Knowing]

Which one? Tinker v Des Moines? Bethel v Fraser? Morse v Frederick? Hazelwood v Kuhlmeier?

I think the context I used when I raised the question should give you enough information to answer that question yourself.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I understand both of those things perfectly well.

If you're going to argue that their indefinite expulsion was not an abridgement of their 1st amendment rights (which they retain), then lets look at the justification. We can examine the bylaws and whatever contracts govern attendance.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Where is the abridgement of right in this case? Where did Congress attempt to curtail the right of these students to free speech?

 

[Knowing]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Where is the abridgement of right in this case? Where did Congress attempt to curtail the right of these students to free speech?

If you're going to argue that their indefinite expulsion was not an abridgement of their 1st amendment rights (which they retain), then lets look at the justification. We can examine the bylaws and whatever contracts govern attendance.

[some text]

 

[MongGrel]

I understand both of those things perfectly well.

If you're going to argue that their indefinite expulsion was not an abridgement of their 1st amendment rights (which they retain), then lets look at the justification. We can examine the bylaws and whatever contracts govern attendance.

(some BS)

 

[Victorian Gray]

[some text]

Are we having fun yet?

 

[Knowing]

(some BS)

(a brilliant contribution which will surely enhance debate and elevate the conversation)

Are we having fun yet?

I'm perfectly content to ctrl+c and ctrl+v some more if you want to keep pretending I haven't been completely conversant.

So where are those bylaws?

 

[Victorian Gray]

(a brilliant contribution which will surely enhance debate and elevate the conversation)



I'm perfectly content to ctrl+c and ctrl+v some more if you want to keep pretending I haven't been completely conversant.

So where are those bylaws?

I'm sure that the school will be only too happy to help you out with any questions that you may have about their student policies.

http://www.stanthonyshs.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/webSite.woa/wa/section?name=ContactUsPage

You can also contact the New York Civil Liberties Union for more information as well.

http://www.nyclu.org/milrec/privateschools

"The in-school activities of private school students are not protected by the Constitution; the Constitution only protects us against the conduct of public employees or officials. Thus, students in private schools only have those rights (e.g. the right to form groups and to meet, the right to distribute literature in school) which are specifically granted by the school. If you are a private school student, check with the school to see what their policies or practices are with regard to student rights."

 

[Knowing]

I'm sure that the school will be only too happy to help you out with any questions that you may have about their student policies.

http://www.stanthonyshs.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/webSite.woa/wa/section?name=ContactUsPage

So what you're saying is that we don't know if they're in breach of contract for expelling students for possessing something which is not contraband because we can't look at their rules?

Interesting.

 

[Victorian Gray]

So what you're saying is that we don't know if they're in breach of contract for expelling students for possessing something which is not contraband because we can't look at their rules?

Interesting.

Nope, what I'm saying is, if you want more information try contacting the school directly. Who better to answer your questions?

Nice try though.

 

[Knowing]

Nope, what I'm saying is, if you want more information try contacting the school directly. Who better to answer your questions?

Nice try though.

I don't know why you wouldn't say that. We don't know what rules they allegedly violated, so we don't know if the school is breaching the contract they have with their customers.

St Anthony's statement

CBS Local - or, the most racist commentary I've read today
“The African-American students who immediately saw it really exercised heroic restraint, and fortunately a teacher immediately confiscated the flag and took the students out of the gym,” Cregan said.

Or is it now reasonable to expect students of different ethnicities to respond differently to being offended?

 

[JEDIYoda]

So that supreme court case didn't actually happen?

you have a humongous comprehension problem.

 

[Knowing]

you have a humongous comprehension problem.

You have a humongous page late problem.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I don't know why you wouldn't say that. We don't know what rules they allegedly violated, so we don't know if the school is breaching the contract they have with their customers.

St Anthony's statement

CBS Local - or, the most racist commentary I've read today
“The African-American students who immediately saw it really exercised heroic restraint, and fortunately a teacher immediately confiscated the flag and took the students out of the gym,” Cregan said.

Or is it now reasonable to expect students of different ethnicities to respond differently to being offended?

If you really, really, really want to know what their specific school policies here is their contact information one more time:

http://www.stanthonyshs.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/webSite.woa/wa/section?name=ContactUsPage

I'm sure that they will try to answer any questions you may have regarding their policies.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Just put the RBM troll on ignore and let the mods deal with him.

 

[Knowing]

If you really, really, really want to know what their specific school policies here is their contact information one more time:

http://www.stanthonyshs.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/webSite.woa/wa/section?name=ContactUsPage

I'm sure that they will try to answer any questions you may have regarding their policies.

Please, don't feel that you're somehow obligated to repost the link again in lieu of actually replying.

If you read the links their policy is that anything racially charged earns you a suspension. After talking with the students they decided that more severe punitive measures were required. I'm absolutely certain that they apply this policy equally to all people. I base that certainty on the fact that the principal thought that it was "heroic" that African American students weren't incited to violence by the presence of a flag.

 

[Knowing]

Just put the RBM troll on ignore and let the mods deal with him.

RBM?

Also, should I ever expect you to provide any factual basis for this opinion?

None.
You don't give up a right you don't have.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Please, don't feel that you're somehow obligated to repost the link again in lieu of actually replying.

If you read the links their policy is that anything racially charged earns you a suspension. After talking with the students they decided that more severe punitive measures were required. I'm absolutely certain that they apply this policy equally to all people. I base that certainty on the fact that the principal thought that it was "heroic" that African American students weren't incited to violence by the presence of a flag.

I'm sure that if you contact the school they will be only to happy to discuss any concerns you may have with their school policies and how they were applied to the students in question.

Just in case you missed it here is their contact information again:

http://www.stanthonyshs.org/cgi-bin/...=ContactUsPage

It's good to know that there are still people who can take the time in their busy lives to show such concern regarding important issues of the day.

 

[Knowing]

I do not wish to hold a civil conversation about these events.

Kay.

In before you repeat yourself again.

 

[Vic]

The student handbook can be found from the school website.
Page 52: " EXPULSION: Expulsion is the most serious penalty, which can be imposed on a student. It is the result of grievous and/or repetitive misconduct. This kind of misconduct will result in a student’s permanent removal from Saint Anthony’s High School. Expulsion is at the sole discretion of the Principal, but may be carried out upon recommendation by the Deans of Students or Prefect of Discipline."

 

[ch33zw1z]

From the article:

Administrators with a Catholic high school located on Long Island have given the boot to four students after finding two brought a Confederate flag to one school-sponsored event and the other two posted a blackface photo on a social media site.

That's the very first paragraph. The students will not see a dime. I'm not sure they would if it was a public school either.

 

[cyclohexane]

Free speech only means that the government can't discrimate against you. Only the government. Does not apply to anyone else - you can protest by boycott or refusing to do business with them, but you cannot sue them.

 

[Victorian Gray]

The student handbook can be found from the school website.
Page 52: " EXPULSION: Expulsion is the most serious penalty, which can be imposed on a student. It is the result of grievous and/or repetitive misconduct. This kind of misconduct will result in a student’s permanent removal from Saint Anthony’s High School. Expulsion is at the sole discretion of the Principal, but may be carried out upon recommendation by the Deans of Students or Prefect of Discipline."

He seems to have concerns about the school being evenhanded in their application of said policy. There might be some concern regarding possible demonization of students of a particular skin colour even. I dunno, he seems like a real concerned kind of guy who wants to express that concern.

I just think that he should be expressing that concern to the school in question rather than wasting his time here on some little forum on the Interwebs. That is, if his concern is really as deep as he seems to be presenting that concern to be. <shrug>

 

[Knowing]

I suddenly want to talk about someone rather than with them. Also, I'll speculate on their motives.

Tell me, when was it that you stopped trying?