Two students expelled for bringing confederate flag to school

[fskimospy]

Tell me, when was it that you stopped trying?

Dude, what is wrong with you?

 

[Knowing]

Dude, what is wrong with you?

Why are you assuming something is wrong with me, and not the person who flatly refused to engage in conversation?

Don't worry, I'm beyond expecting cogent responses.

 

[DominionSeraph]

It's Geo's alt account. Let it go.
http://forums.anandtech.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist

 

[Victorian Gray]

Tell me, when was it that you stopped trying?

You don't seem to want to contact the school about this.

Really, if the issue has upset you to this point would it not make sense to contact them directly to voice your concerns?

 

[Knowing]

It's Geo's alt account. Let it go.
http://forums.anandtech.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist

I'm not anyone's alt account. Of course, if you're making more unbased claims there's probably nothing I could do to prove it to you. Should I take this as a tacit admission that you won't ever prove that students don't have rights?

Also, could you tell me what I typed that you found so offensive that you don't ever want to see what I type in the future?

 

[Brainonska511]

 

[Knowing]

You don't seem to want to contact the school about this.

Why would you think otherwise? If I wanted to contact the school I would have without you repeatedly posting their contact us page.

Really, if the issue has upset you to this point would it not make sense to contact them directly to voice your concerns?

If I were, it would- so what does that tell you?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Why would you think otherwise? If I wanted to contact the school I would have without you repeatedly posting their contact us page.



If I were, it would- so what does that tell you?

Pretty much all I need to know thanks.

It's been fun.

 

[Knowing]

xkcd from a few days ago

That doesn't answer my question. If I think someone's an asshole I'll have the common decency to elucidate why I think they're an asshole. It goes along with that whole page of me wasting my time trying to engage in conversation on a forum.

Pretty much all I need to know thanks.

It's been fun.

So you needed to know that I wasn't upset? You could have just asked.

 

[werepossum]

Free speech only means that the government can't discrimate against you. Only the government. Does not apply to anyone else - you can protest by boycott or refusing to do business with them, but you cannot sue them.

It does bring up an interesting point though. If one is gay or black, government will happily step in to protect your rights from infringement by a private business, yet in this case the government is not interested. I understand why morally, but I fail to see legally how they can make that distinction.

Which one? Tinker v Des Moines? Bethel v Fraser? Morse v Frederick? Hazelwood v Kuhlmeier?

Hmm, you seem to know a lot about US case law for a Canadian. Is the federal government now outsourcing their paid Internet advocates? Is this another job Americans won't do?

If so, please tell them I am available for lucrative advocacy opportunities. No lie is too big, no fee is too big.

 

[Brainonska511]

It does bring up an interesting point though. If one is gay or black, government will happily step in to protect your rights from infringement by a private business, yet in this case the government is not interested. I understand why morally, but I fail to see legally how they can make that distinction.

Being a racist isn't a protected class.

 

[MongGrel]

http://www.care2.com/causes/supreme...-case-banning-confederate-flag-in-school.html

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-over-mississippi-supreme-court-building?lite

http://www.firstamendmentschools.org/freedoms/case.aspx?id=1672

http://deadconfederates.com/2013/03/26/confederate-flag-cases-at-the-fourth-circuit/

http://www.ehow.com/list_7416416_florida-flag-laws.html

 

[werepossum]

Being a racist isn't a protected class.

Interesting. So you're okay with the idea that rights are conditional and some people inherently have more of them?

 

[Vic]

Interesting. So you're okay with the idea that rights are conditional and some people inherently have more of them?

How were the students' rights infringed?
They were expelled for violating the private schools policy. Expulsion is at the sole discretion of the Principal. Admission to a private school is a privilege, not a right. If you break the rules, you can go back to public school.
In other words, no rights were conditional and no one inherently had more rights than another.

 

[werepossum]

How were the students' rights infringed?
They were expelled for violating the private schools policy. Expulsion is at the sole discretion of the Principal. Admission to a private school is a privilege, not a right. If you break the rules, you can go back to public school.
In other words, no rights were conditional and no one inherently had more rights than another.

Put it this way. Suppose the school found out that these four students were gay which is against school policy. Do you really believe the federal government remains aloof from their expulsion since "expulsion is at the sole discretion of the Principal"? We already absolutely know that deciding which weddings will be served cannot be at the sole discretion of the florist.

 

[MongGrel]

Put it this way. Suppose the school found out that these four students were gay which is against school policy. Do you really believe the federal government remains aloof from their expulsion since "expulsion is at the sole discretion of the Principal"? We already absolutely know that deciding which weddings will be served cannot be at the sole discretion of the florist.

My god your replies make no sense whatsoever.

Do you ever look at them the next morning and go "WTF did I write?"

Probably not, so it''s pretty much immaterial.

 

[werepossum]

My god your replies make no sense whatsoever.

Do you ever look at them the next morning and go "WTF did I write?"

Probably not, so it''s pretty much immaterial.

Sorry, here's one you can follow.

"Confederate flag bad! Boys racist!"

Was that better?

Dumbass.

 

[fskimospy]

Put it this way. Suppose the school found out that these four students were gay which is against school policy. Do you really believe the federal government remains aloof from their expulsion since "expulsion is at the sole discretion of the Principal"? We already absolutely know that deciding which weddings will be served cannot be at the sole discretion of the florist.

First, it is a religious institution so they could totally exclude gay students. Florists are subject to public accommodation laws and are not religious institutions. Wait, you really thought the federal government would be going around suing catholic schools for not allowing gay people? Surely you should have tons of examples of the Feds suing over this then?

Second, our civil rights laws cover immutable characteristics, not actions. Your race and sexual orientation are protected (in some cases), your desire to wave symbols of race based enslavement is not. No one has any more rights than any other person. Just as a gay business owner cannot deny service to straight people and a black business cannot deny service to whites, the same goes the other way. All of us have the same protections. The fact that almost all the cases go straight against gay and white against black is simply a sad commentary on our society.

 

[MongGrel]

Sorry, here's one you can follow.

"Confederate flag bad! Boys racist!"

Was that better?

Dumbass.

Somehow the way you worded it before I thought you were supporting them actually.

 

[Pens1566]

Another thread where someone doesn't understand the concept of free speech. Yawn.

 

[bshole]

Just because some hate groups fly the rebel flag it does not mean it stands for hatred. The tea party folks often fly a couple of flags which stand for freedom. A liberal could try to say those flags stand for hatred. It all depends on who is in power at the time.

Um in this case it did, what TH did not mention.....

Two days later, school officials found that the two female students posted a photo of one of them wearing blackface on a social media account. The photo was accompanied by what administrators said was racist language, NBC reported.

So some racists get booted from a Catholic School. Awesome! And that folks is why I send my kids to a Catholic School. I don't want them mingling with racist shit-kickers.

It appears that being a racist bigot is a PREREQUISITE to being a confederate flag lover.

 

[nehalem256]

First, it is a religious institution so they could totally exclude gay students. Florists are subject to public accommodation laws and are not religious institutions. Wait, you really thought the federal government would be going around suing catholic schools for not allowing gay people? Surely you should have tons of examples of the Feds suing over this then?

So could a religious institution exclude black students?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Sorry, here's one you can follow.

"Confederate flag bad!

Not if it's a civil war era battle flag or naval jack, these are worth a lot of money. I know a person that has a naval jack that flew on the CSS Palmetto State and it valued at $200k - $250k.

 

[fskimospy]

So could a religious institution exclude black students?

Yes, segregationist religious institutions are not required to accept black people (or white people for that matter). Civil rights laws apply to public accommodations and employment, not private or religious structures.

 

[werepossum]

First, it is a religious institution so they could totally exclude gay students. Florists are subject to public accommodation laws and are not religious institutions. Wait, you really thought the federal government would be going around suing catholic schools for not allowing gay people? Surely you should have tons of examples of the Feds suing over this then?

Second, our civil rights laws cover immutable characteristics, not actions. Your race and sexual orientation are protected (in some cases), your desire to wave symbols of race based enslavement is not. No one has any more rights than any other person. Just as a gay business owner cannot deny service to straight people and a black business cannot deny service to whites, the same goes the other way. All of us have the same protections. The fact that almost all the cases go straight against gay and white against black is simply a sad commentary on our society.

Yeah, I forgot it's a Catholic school. I'll more or less agree with the rest, in that choosing to carry a rebel flag is not inherently part of one's self. But I'll also point out that had this not been a religious school, an analogy could be made with a gay rights or Che Guevara tee shirt, which goes back to my earlier point that life is not fair, but it's not fair for everyone.

Somehow the way you worded it before I thought you were supporting them actually.

Nope, see my earlier post. To wit:

Pretty sure this is the Confederate battle flag. That's a particularly beautiful flag, but it represents only brother killing brother for the right to keep people as property, in direct contravention to our Declaration of Independence. Or if you want to be highly technical, it represents only brother killing brother for the states' right to grant people the right to keep people as property, in direct contravention to our Declaration of Independence. No different from bringing a Nazi flag, or a Che Guevara poster, in that it represents a lot of things almost all of which are bad.

Any school, public or private, could do just what this school did in the OP's post without any ultimate backlash, as the world is not fair. Smart people realize this, realize the world is not fair for everyone, put on their big girl panties and move on.

I'm visualizing a sign with a brain and a tape measure that says "You must be this non-stupid to attend our school."

Not if it's a civil war era battle flag or naval jack, these are worth a lot of money. I know a person that has a naval jack that flew on the CSS Palmetto State and it valued at $200k - $250k.

Shit, for the first time I wish I had one. Or maybe ten.

It's a beautiful flag, I just think it is better off at Civil War memorials and museums only. There are good things about the South, but that flag represents none of them.