Two more babies get herpes after ORAL circumcision practice

[Hayabusa Rider]

What do you mean "lose that point of attack"? This is criminal sexual conduct and a felony under NY state law, whether or not the involved rabbis are doing it for sexual stimulation. This is a Class B felony, subject to up to 25 years in prison under the New York Penal (no pun intended!) Code. Specifically, we are talking about N.Y. Code § 130.50:



"Oral sexual conduct" is defined in N.Y. Code § 130.00(2)(a):



I would absolutely "take them on in court," by prosecuting them and sending them to prison. We do not, as a society, have to tolerate old men putting babies' penises in their mouths for any reason, and we should not tolerate any such thing.

The idea that this is analogous to prostitution is ridiculous. Prostitution involving adults is a crime but you can make an argument that it's a victimless crime. Prostitution involving children is a crime against the children involved, and I believe it should be actively prosecuted, just as this should be. I find your effort to equate this conduct to prostitution really offensive.

Then sue. Your last point is ridiculous BTW. You can find it offensive all you like but if my son were to foolishly indulge a prostitute and contracted AIDS because there is no regulation and then you told me it's a victimless crime I'd most likely punch you square in the nose.

So if the situation is a crime then prosecute, but you might want to take a break from polishing your halo.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Then sue. Your last point is ridiculous BTW. You can find it offensive all you like but if my son were to foolishly indulge a prostitute and contracted AIDS because there is no regulation and then you told me it's a victimless I'd most likely punch you square in the nose.

So if the situation is a crime then prosecute, but you might want to take a break from polishing your halo.

Why would I "sue" when there is a perfectly good criminal law that covers this situation?

What "halo" are you talking about? You're saying, I guess, that I am acting high and mighty by wanting to see child molesters prosecuted. I am 100% guilty as charged.

You, on the other hand, want to see these rabbis freely allowed to molest kids (admittedly under only limited circumstances), subject to some amorphous and unenforceable "regulation" to prevent the transmission of disease. I would consider that laughable if it weren't so stomach-turning.

An adult who chooses to hire a prostitute and doesn't take reasonable protections is not a "victim" in any definition I am willing to assign that word. Anyone who has sex with a prostitute without protection and gets a disease has only himself to blame. To say that an adult in that situation is fungible with a baby who gets herpes from an adult man who puts the baby's penis in his mouth is just . . . unreal. I am just mystified by the idea that anyone could think these are fungible problems.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

But you can make that argument about any practice. To some degree, all illegal practices are carried on underground, and I suspect most of them are very much more common than is this one.

That is very true. My concern was what solution causes the least damage? Apparently my trying to find what that would be was taken by some who's horse is to high as an approval. It is not. In short I could be completely wrong but not because I think it's just fine. I have kids and am capable of things beyond mentioning if they were in harms way. I get the not harming part.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

We don't allow people to sacrifice other people in the name of Satan, so why would we allow this?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

That is very true. My concern was what solution causes the least damage? Apparently my trying to find what that would be was taken by some who's horse is to high as an approval. It is not. In short I could be completely wrong but not because I think it's just fine. I have kids and am capable of things beyond mentioning if they were in harms way. I get the not harming part.

How would it cause any damage to criminally prosecute these guys? They are engaged in a serious crime with infant victims. Why should the state tolerate it and, worse yet, tacitly approve of it by "regulating" the practitioners? I just find the idea bizarre. I am not trying to talk down to you, but I literally don't understand what harm could possibly flow from throwing these rabbis in prison.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Why would I "sue" when there is a perfectly good criminal law that covers this situation?

What "halo" are you talking about? You're saying, I guess, that I am acting high and mighty by wanting to see child molesters prosecuted. I am 100% guilty as charged.

You, on the other hand, want to see these rabbis freely allowed to molest kids (admittedly under only limited circumstances), subject to some amorphous and unenforceable "regulation" to prevent the transmission of disease. I would consider that laughable if it weren't so stomach-turning.

An adult who chooses to hire a prostitute and doesn't take reasonable protections is not a "victim" in any definition I am willing to assign that word. Anyone who has sex with a prostitute without protection and gets a disease has only himself to blame. To say that an adult in that situation is fungible with a baby who gets herpes from an adult man who puts the baby's penis in his mouth is just . . . unreal. I am just mystified by the idea that anyone could think these are fungible problems.

See my last post. I find it curious you have taken a libertarian stance on the regulation of prostitution. The tobacco companies sure would have loved you.

 

[werepossum]

That is very true. My concern was what solution causes the least damage? Apparently my trying to find what that would be was taken by some who's horse is to high as an approval. It is not. In short I could be completely wrong but not because I think it's just fine. I have kids and am capable of things beyond mentioning if they were in harms way. I get the not harming part.

Understood.

We don't allow people to sacrifice other people in the name of Satan, so why would we allow this?

Well - we'd probably be okay if they sacrificed just a bit of blood to Satan. As long as it isn't sucked out of an infant's penis.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

See my last post. I find it curious you have taken a libertarian stance on the regulation of prostitution. The tobacco companies sure would have loved you.

Again, the idea that adult prostitution is equivalent to the molestation of babies is just a head-scratcher for me. Honestly don't understand what you're talking about. By your logic, we should also allow female genital mutilation as long as it's done under sanitary conditions. I'd rather lock up the mutilators and baby-fellaters, by applying already-existent laws.

When it comes to my views on adult prostitution (which I see as irrelevant to this discussion), I don't believe it should be criminalized and would be open to some kind of regimented testing like what is done in the Netherlands. I really haven't given it much thought and don't see what the hell it has to do with oral-genital contact with babies.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

How would it cause any damage to criminally prosecute these guys? They are engaged in a serious crime with infant victims. Why should the state tolerate it and, worse yet, tacitly approve of it by "regulating" the practitioners? I just find the idea bizarre.

1) It was you who made it clear this was a crime. Before then i missed that. Note the time sequence here. I said "sue" instead of prosecute. Sue me. It's a crime then punish. Apparently you want to fight about this. If that's what you are spoiling for then that is your choice.

 

[Moonbeam]

If you had no hands and the only way you could stop a hemophiliac baby from bleeding to death from a wound on his penis, in New York, I guess you would be guilty of a crime. I really have a feeling that the NY law was written without any knowledge that this cult practice exists and has for 5000 years. I do not accept that this practice has anything at all to do with pedophilia, period.

 

[woolfe9998]

If you had no hands and the only way you could stop a hemophiliac baby from bleeding to death from a wound on his penis, in New York, I guess you would be guilty of a crime. I really have a feeling that the NY law was written without any knowledge that this cult practice exists and has for 5000 years. I do not accept that this practice has anything at all to do with pedophilia, period.

No, it very likely has nothing to do with pedophilia. Nonetheless, it ought to be prosecuted. Much like Christian Scientists not taking their sick children to the doctor is not really about wanting to kill their kids. Yet it's still criminal neglect.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Again, the idea that adult prostitution is equivalent to the molestation of babies is just a head-scratcher for me. Honestly don't understand what you're talking about. By your logic, we should also allow female genital mutilation as long as it's done under sanitary conditions. I'd rather lock up the mutilators and baby-fellaters, by applying already-existent laws.

When it comes to my views on adult prostitution (which I see as irrelevant to this discussion), I don't believe it should be criminalized and would be open to some kind of regimented testing like what is done in the Netherlands. I really haven't given it much thought and don't see what the hell it has to do with oral-genital contact with babies.

Hello- I said prosecute. The analogy wasn't about the comparitive enormity of each act but a stated recognition that criminalizing an act does not make it go away in itself. That's where prostitution came in. Your emotional reaction subverted your understanding of my intent. That's understandable however for God's sake give people credit for some sense especially since you've never seen me call for beating or bombing or "hell yeah let's shoot Em all and let God sort it out.

 

[MagickMan]

If you had no hands and the only way you could stop a hemophiliac baby from bleeding to death from a wound on his penis, in New York, I guess you would be guilty of a crime. I really have a feeling that the NY law was written without any knowledge that this cult practice exists and has for 5000 years. I do not accept that this practice has anything at all to do with pedophilia, period.

It doesn't have anything to do with pedophilia, that's sensationalism, however it doesn't stop it from being creepy in a modern context (and dangerous, as shown in the reports). That part of the bris ceremony needs to be made illegal.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

1) It was you who made it clear this was a crime. Before then i missed that. Note the time sequence here. I said "sue" instead of prosecute. Sue me. It's a crime then punish. Apparently you want to fight about this. If that's what you are spoiling for then that is your choice.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I think we were ships passing in the night, and I hope you can understand that I was upset by what seemed to me to be a suggestion that this practice should not be prosecuted or that it was somehow equivalent to prostitution (which I think was a totally fair reading of your posts), followed up by a number of posts personally attacking me as being high and mighty for wanting these rabbis prosecuted.

 

[nehalem256]

Then sue. Your last point is ridiculous BTW. You can find it offensive all you like but if my son were to foolishly indulge a prostitute and contracted AIDS because there is no regulation and then you told me it's a victimless crime I'd most likely punch you square in the nose.

So if the situation is a crime then prosecute, but you might want to take a break from polishing your halo.

Except in this case you bought your son a prostitute.

 

[zinfamous]

We don't allow people to sacrifice other people in the name of Satan, so why would we allow this?

I know satanists don't do that. Not sure what religion would....why is that an issue?