Two Americas

[imported_Shivetya]

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wi...4.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines


Well I guess there two standards. Those that should apply to us and those that they apply to themselves. It never ceases to amaze me that politicians will constantly play the class warfare card it is more amusing when they do the very thing the condemn in others.

Witness John Edwards new house, only 28,000 square feet. Make no mistake, I have no problems with the size or that he spent his own money, regardless how he got it. But to have people like this tell me that my taxes are not high enough, that I am part of the problem, and then turn around and pull ****** like this just irks me.

There are two Americas, the one we live in and the one THEY //politicians and elitist rich// tell us we should adhere too. Finance campaign laws need to be changed to prevent the rich and connected from buying elections. The need to repeal Feingold/McCain and return the process back to the people. No money from any other source other than individual people and then no more than a few thousand.

Repost

 

[Tom]

"Make no mistake, I have no problems with the size or that he spent his own money, regardless how he got it."

then what are you complaining about it for ?

and what do you mean he says you're part of the problem ?

 

[Moonbeam]

All our Presidents should be scraped up out of the gutter. Oh wait!

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
No money from any other source other than individual people and then no more than a few thousand.

FTW.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Tom
"Make no mistake, I have no problems with the size or that he spent his own money, regardless how he got it."

then what are you complaining about it for ?

and what do you mean he says you're part of the problem ?

I'm confused as well. Seems like the OP has Class Envy towards Edwards. :shrug;

 

[techs]

Well, I can't get the link to load right now.

BUT- There is class warfare going on. There has been since the 1980's.
The fact is the rich want more and the poor want more. And in many cases that is mutually exclusive. Ronald Reagan presided over open class warfare that changed the "we're all in this together" spirit into "get what you can, from whoever you can, any way you can."
America has not come to grips with the class problems due to the immense wealth that came from winning WW2 and the idea there was enough to go around. However, as Americas wealth gets shipped overseas the fact is we are fighting over a shrinking pie.
My prediction is we will do what Europe did (if we remain a Democracy). Eventually the lower classes will start voting their class, much like the rich do, and America will go thru what happened in Europe, huge social programs, huge regressive taxes. Then the eventual realization a compromise must be reached. I only hope that we come to an equlibrium like Europe. The other options are fascism or socialism

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
All our Presidents should be scraped up out of the gutter. Oh wait!

The irony is with all the 'campaign finance reform' the only kind of people who will be able to run for office will be rich.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: techs
Well, I can't get the link to load right now.

BUT- There is class warfare going on. There has been since the 1980's.
The fact is the rich want more and the poor want more. And in many cases that is mutually exclusive. Ronald Reagan presided over open class warfare that changed the "we're all in this together" spirit into "get what you can, from whoever you can, any way you can."
America has not come to grips with the class problems due to the immense wealth that came from winning WW2 and the idea there was enough to go around. However, as Americas wealth gets shipped overseas the fact is we are fighting over a shrinking pie.
My prediction is we will do what Europe did (if we remain a Democracy). Eventually the lower classes will start voting their class, much like the rich do, and America will go thru what happened in Europe, huge social programs, huge regressive taxes. Then the eventual realization a compromise must be reached. I only hope that we come to an equlibrium like Europe. The other options are fascism or socialism

That won't happen because the poor are being stripped of voting power by being thrown into the penal system (Felons can't vote ever again).

No doubt the U.S. will spiral into a civil war against the rich, the Corporations, the church and the Government.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: techs
Well, I can't get the link to load right now.

BUT- There is class warfare going on. There has been since the 1980's.
The fact is the rich want more and the poor want more. And in many cases that is mutually exclusive. Ronald Reagan presided over open class warfare that changed the "we're all in this together" spirit into "get what you can, from whoever you can, any way you can."
America has not come to grips with the class problems due to the immense wealth that came from winning WW2 and the idea there was enough to go around. However, as Americas wealth gets shipped overseas the fact is we are fighting over a shrinking pie.
My prediction is we will do what Europe did (if we remain a Democracy). Eventually the lower classes will start voting their class, much like the rich do, and America will go thru what happened in Europe, huge social programs, huge regressive taxes. Then the eventual realization a compromise must be reached. I only hope that we come to an equlibrium like Europe. The other options are fascism or socialism

That won't happen because the poor are being stripped of voting power by being thrown into the penal system (Felons can't vote ever again).

No doubt the U.S. will spiral into a civil war against the rich, the Corporations, the church and the Government.

*yawn*

 

[JD50]

For the mentally challenged, the point of the OP is, John Edwards is a total hypocrite, and the OP does not like hypocrites.

I thought that was pretty obvious.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: JD50
For the mentally challenged, the point of the OP is, John Edwards is a total hypocrite, and the OP does not like hypocrites.

I thought that was pretty obvious.

Things that are wrong are obvious to you.

John Edwards is not a hypocrite at all for his earning a high income himself and advocating policies to help the poor, including ones which would raise his own taxes.

What he is, is actually trying to help the poor which is why the selfish wealthy are putting out garbage attacks against him which the OP falls for.

Surprisingly, I agree with the OP on his recommendation to get money out of the system other than from individuals for limited amounts. That's the most important issue IMO.

But he has it wrong in blaming wealthy individuals - while some are the far bigger issue is the huge money available with hundreds of billions affects for corporations.

There's a reason Enron was Bush's top donor.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Shivetya
No money from any other source other than individual people and then no more than a few thousand.

FTW.

yes, let's squash freedom of speech.

 

[bamacre]

They only get away with what we allow.

They do wrong, and we site by watching our TV, play with our new video card, or ride in our new car.

Voting is not enough, and we don't even do that well.

If we do not protest our gov't using our voices, poster boards and magic markers, someday, our children, or our grandchildren, or even our great-grandchildren, will have to do it with guns and IED's.

 

[marincounty]

Edwards is a hypocrite because he is a Democrat and dares to make lots of money. He is supposed to be poor and live off of government programs.
Only selfish Republicans are supposed to get rich.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Craig234
John Edwards is not a hypocrite at all for his earning a high income himself and advocating policies to help the poor, including ones which would raise his own taxes.

John Edwards doesn't need to run for anything if he wishes to raise his taxes - he merely needs to send in extra money. There's certainly no law preventing one from overpaying taxes. I'm curious if he has ever done so.

 

[judasmachine]

now ask yourself which america those boys in uniform are defending. a double standard is an understatement.

 

[Tab]

This is a repost...

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: JD50
For the mentally challenged, the point of the OP is, John Edwards is a total hypocrite, and the OP does not like hypocrites.

I thought that was pretty obvious.

I'm not sure I'd call John Edwards a hypocrite. He's a rich guy advocating higher taxes for the rich, and the end result will him paying far more into the system than any of us gomers. Hypocrisy, for those of you without access to a dictionary, would suggest that Edwards is going to raise YOUR taxes, but not his own.

 

[Rainsford]

By the way, I'd like to point out that the conservatives going apeshit over how rich various Democrats are seem to be remarkably silent about how much money their fellow Republicans have. And at least Edwards earned his money, which is more than I can say for President Bush, about whom you have all been pretty closemouthed.

 

[XZeroII]

I thought this was going to be a thread about Boston Legal

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Craig234
But he has it wrong in blaming wealthy individuals - while some are the far bigger issue is the huge money available with hundreds of billions affects for corporations.

There's a reason Enron was Bush's top donor.

Long after the collapse of Enron, people like Craig are still slobbering in outrage at the company... and I think we all know the display of anger is the only way to keep people from noticing the real emotion underlying the Enron fiasco: Elation.

Having failed to provide actual leadership (as usual), they at least have a good smear campaign they can use against the Right (as usual). The Leftist pundits are pleased that, in the middle of a sea of wealth produced by capitalism, they have one example they can point to as alleged evidence of capitalism's failure. Right :roll:

There are dishonest people in any industry, in any country, in any culture. The question is: what enables them to take over a market and profit from dishonest tactics? Who is responsible for the perverse trading incentives that Enron exploited? The answer: the very politicians and pundits who love screaming about the Enron debacle with carefully staged outrage.

Did Enron exploit this system? Sure. But don't forget what kind of system they were exploiting: a mixed-economy system of short-sighted and irrational government controls. Enron could only loot California's utilities because the state's government had bound them hand and foot in a web of environmental restrictions and nonsensical "deregulation" regulations. Big business, meet big government.

Large corporations don't mind big government... hell, gov't is the best way to keep out the competition through taxes and regulations. Any leftwingnut who believes the Democratic Party is anti-megacorp is blinded by their own propaganda. A better indicator is, who do small business owners support? Libs beware... you may not like the answer.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: JD50
For the mentally challenged, the point of the OP is, John Edwards is a total hypocrite, and the OP does not like hypocrites.

I thought that was pretty obvious.

I'm not sure I'd call John Edwards a hypocrite. He's a rich guy advocating higher taxes for the rich, and the end result will him paying far more into the system than any of us gomers. Hypocrisy, for those of you without access to a dictionary, would suggest that Edwards is going to raise YOUR taxes, but not his own.

Yep, but don't let JD50's instant talking-point right-wing knee-jerk garbage comments bug you, you'd have to be a blithering moron to see any validity in most of them.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Craig234
But he has it wrong in blaming wealthy individuals - while some are the far bigger issue is the huge money available with hundreds of billions affects for corporations.

There's a reason Enron was Bush's top donor.

Long after the collapse of Enron, people like Craig are still slobbering in outrage at the company... and I think we all know the display of anger is the only way to keep people from noticing the real emotion underlying the Enron fiasco: Elation.

Having failed to provide actual leadership (as usual), they at least have a good smear campaign they can use against the Right (as usual). The Leftist pundits are pleased that, in the middle of a sea of wealth produced by capitalism, they have one example they can point to as alleged evidence of capitalism's failure. Right :roll:

There are dishonest people in any industry, in any country, in any culture. The question is: what enables them to take over a market and profit from dishonest tactics? Who is responsible for the perverse trading incentives that Enron exploited? The answer: the very politicians and pundits who love screaming about the Enron debacle with carefully staged outrage.

Did Enron exploit this system? Sure. But don't forget what kind of system they were exploiting: a mixed-economy system of short-sighted and irrational government controls. Enron could only loot California's utilities because the state's government had bound them hand and foot in a web of environmental restrictions and nonsensical "deregulation" regulations. Big business, meet big government.

Large corporations don't mind big government... hell, gov't is the best way to keep out the competition through taxes and regulations. Any leftwingnut who believes the Democratic Party is anti-megacorp is blinded by their own propaganda. A better indicator is, who do small business owners support? Libs beware... you may not like the answer.

Rofl .. you're so single-minded that you have no credibility. Did you actually do any in-depth research on the Enron/Arthur Andersen implosion? The politicians and enablers of the whole debacle were almost 100% Republicans. Grey Davis, the wimpy governor of California during the crisis, was actually doing what he could to rectify the situation.

Deregulation of utilities hasn't proven to be a very good idea for anyone OTHER than the corporations who can screw people over more freely. I live in Texas, and things are getting progressively worse with gas/electric rates.

I'm not defending the Democrats. In general both parties will screw you over in different ways. It's just sickening to see robots like you hang their brains in the closet and go goose-stepping to the march of your party in total abdication of all logic and independent thought. There are plenty of left-wing drones too.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Craig234
But he has it wrong in blaming wealthy individuals - while some are the far bigger issue is the huge money available with hundreds of billions affects for corporations.

There's a reason Enron was Bush's top donor.

Long after the collapse of Enron, people like Craig are still slobbering in outrage at the company... and I think we all know the display of anger is the only way to keep people from noticing the real emotion underlying the Enron fiasco: Elation.

Having failed to provide actual leadership (as usual), they at least have a good smear campaign they can use against the Right (as usual). The Leftist pundits are pleased that, in the middle of a sea of wealth produced by capitalism, they have one example they can point to as alleged evidence of capitalism's failure. Right :roll:

There are dishonest people in any industry, in any country, in any culture. The question is: what enables them to take over a market and profit from dishonest tactics? Who is responsible for the perverse trading incentives that Enron exploited? The answer: the very politicians and pundits who love screaming about the Enron debacle with carefully staged outrage.

Did Enron exploit this system? Sure. But don't forget what kind of system they were exploiting: a mixed-economy system of short-sighted and irrational government controls. Enron could only loot California's utilities because the state's government had bound them hand and foot in a web of environmental restrictions and nonsensical "deregulation" regulations. Big business, meet big government.

Large corporations don't mind big government... hell, gov't is the best way to keep out the competition through taxes and regulations. Any leftwingnut who believes the Democratic Party is anti-megacorp is blinded by their own propaganda. A better indicator is, who do small business owners support? Libs beware... you may not like the answer.

Rofl .. you're so single-minded that you have no credibility. Did you actually do any in-depth research on the Enron/Arthur Andersen implosion? The politicians and enablers of the whole debacle were almost 100% Republicans. Grey Davis, the wimpy governor of California during the crisis, was actually doing what he could to rectify the situation.

Deregulation of utilities hasn't proven to be a very good idea for anyone OTHER than the corporations who can screw people over more freely.

I live in Texas, and things are getting progressively worse with gas/electric rates.

I'm not defending the Democrats. In general both parties will screw you over in different ways. It's just sickening to see robots like you hang their brains in the closet and go goose-stepping to the march of your party in total abdication of all logic and independent thought. There are plenty of left-wing drones too.

They're starting to rape the motherland now?

A sure sign the Oil Barons are losing grip in Washington. :thumbsup:

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Craig234
But he has it wrong in blaming wealthy individuals - while some are the far bigger issue is the huge money available with hundreds of billions affects for corporations.

There's a reason Enron was Bush's top donor.

Long after the collapse of Enron, people like Craig are still slobbering in outrage at the company... and I think we all know the display of anger is the only way to keep people from noticing the real emotion underlying the Enron fiasco: Elation.

Having failed to provide actual leadership (as usual), they at least have a good smear campaign they can use against the Right (as usual). The Leftist pundits are pleased that, in the middle of a sea of wealth produced by capitalism, they have one example they can point to as alleged evidence of capitalism's failure. Right :roll:

There are dishonest people in any industry, in any country, in any culture. The question is: what enables them to take over a market and profit from dishonest tactics? Who is responsible for the perverse trading incentives that Enron exploited? The answer: the very politicians and pundits who love screaming about the Enron debacle with carefully staged outrage.

Did Enron exploit this system? Sure. But don't forget what kind of system they were exploiting: a mixed-economy system of short-sighted and irrational government controls. Enron could only loot California's utilities because the state's government had bound them hand and foot in a web of environmental restrictions and nonsensical "deregulation" regulations. Big business, meet big government.

Large corporations don't mind big government... hell, gov't is the best way to keep out the competition through taxes and regulations. Any leftwingnut who believes the Democratic Party is anti-megacorp is blinded by their own propaganda. A better indicator is, who do small business owners support? Libs beware... you may not like the answer.

Rofl .. you're so single-minded that you have no credibility. Did you actually do any in-depth research on the Enron/Arthur Andersen implosion? The politicians and enablers of the whole debacle were almost 100% Republicans. Grey Davis, the wimpy governor of California during the crisis, was actually doing what he could to rectify the situation.

Deregulation of utilities hasn't proven to be a very good idea for anyone OTHER than the corporations who can screw people over more freely.

I live in Texas, and things are getting progressively worse with gas/electric rates.

I'm not defending the Democrats. In general both parties will screw you over in different ways. It's just sickening to see robots like you hang their brains in the closet and go goose-stepping to the march of your party in total abdication of all logic and independent thought. There are plenty of left-wing drones too.

They're starting to rape the motherland now?

A sure sign the Oil Barons are losing grip in Washington. :thumbsup:

Bleh, I could post dozens of links if you wanted, but google is teh win.

Here's one that sums up a few recent stinging points :

http://cbs11tv.com/topstories/local_story_213203559.html

Bottom line : pretty much everyone in Texas has seen their electric rates rise drastically, to the point where people who were paying $75 a month for electricity during the summer 4-5 years ago are paying triple that now, for the same apartments. Homes, forget about it. My home in Carrollton now averages $275-$300/month in Electric alone, and it's just a 3/2/2 with modern insulation and an energy-efficient A/C system.