[TweakTown] Intel claims Apple would be lost without their chips

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

As far as Roku vs ATV, that's basically two failed designs fighting it out.

Two failed designs? Steaming boxes are the future of entertainment and the Cable and Satellite providers see the writing on the wall (Cable TV has lost a million subscribers per year for the last 5 years).

Dish network launched the Sling steaming service for a reason.... To stay relevant:
http://www.multichannel.com/news/tv-apps/roku-surpasses-10m-players-sold-us/383877

 

[oobydoobydoo]

Um, the process lead is certainly there and certainly significant. You can try to disbelieve all you like, but it won't change the actual reality.

And no, matching laptop CPUs isn't just a matter of upping the TDP. If you think so, you basically understand nothing about VLSI design.



You are assuming that A8X can significantly scale in frequency. You are assuming that SMT will be easy. You are assuming that turbo mode is a walk in the park. You are assuming that apple wants to compromise a 100m+ part design to maybe possibly be exactly where they are by buying OTS parts while trying to migrate their entire user base while having to develop a wealth of tools to support that new product all for no real effect.

Why wouldn't it scale? You're assuming it won't, when Apple obviously doesn't need it to at this point. They are getting great performance without turbo... and turbo itself is arguably just a solution to intel's poor performance per watt. Before we hit a frequency wall at ~4Ghz, there was no turbo needed. I think Apple doesn't need the deceptive marketing that "turbo" offers, unlike intel.



Apple has, in 3 years, gone from a company that had never designed a chip to the company that has the best mobile chips on the market. Intel took 40 years to get to where it is and hasn't moved much in the last 10. I think they are capable of making whatever they want, it just depends on whether they want to.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Apple has, in 3 years, gone from a company that had never designed a chip to the company that has the best mobile chips on the market. Intel took 40 years to get to where it is and hasn't moved much in the last 10. I think they are capable of making whatever they want, it just depends on whether they want to.

Apple bought PASemi in 2008, so it has been far more than 3 years. More like 7

 

[controlflow]

Apple bought PASemi in 2008, so it has been far more than 3 years. More like 7

I wouldn't waste any energy on responding to that rubbish. He claims that Intel hasn't made much progress on it's products since 2005. That should say enough about his validity.

You can't talk reason to people who religiously worship a company and have an irrational hatred of companies that are competitors of their beloved cult/company.

 

[oobydoobydoo]

I wouldn't waste any energy on responding to that rubbish. He claims that Intel hasn't made much progress on it's products since 2005. That should say enough about his validity.

THEY HAVEN'T! Your definition of progress is different than mine. Apple is making progress doubling their CPU and GPU speed every year. Intel has never achieved that kind of performance ramp, not even close.

You can't talk reason to people who religiously worship a company and have an irrational hatred of companies that are competitors of their beloved cult/company.

You should read this sentence you wrote^

and realize that I'm saying it... and you are the "person who religiously worships a company".



Ironic self-ownage level: 9000

 

[oobydoobydoo]

Apple bought PASemi in 2008, so it has been far more than 3 years. More like 7

Yeah, I definitely exaggerated there.



Still, they've made amazing progress. It will be interesting to see what skylake has to offer. Its just frustrating to deal with the Intel Denial Squad and the constant personal attacks.

 

[coercitiv]

It doesn't matter how meaningful the benchmarks are, year over year we're seeing significant jumps in performance from the A chips, and they are doing it with headroom to spare (frequency wise). Meantime Intel keeps peeling away from the power consumption of their strongest cores, dropping watts every year. It's a collision course.

We keep imagining a clash of the titans, Apple's big arm core vs Intel's mighty quad, when the real fight will be fought for the tablet, or to be more precise the device that will enable laptop like productivity with tablet like portability. The winner takes it all.

A few years later... and they start asking the question.

 

[Jan Olšan]

You mean in ads/fanboys' dreams?
Sure, the hardware is computer all right (has been always, even when it had a slow singlecore and 256MB RAM. RPi 1 is/was computer too), but the OS and what software does with it... no. Appliance.

Of course marketing will never speak about the shitty aspects though, only the rivers of chocolate and gold-paved streets. What do you expect, truth?

 

[coercitiv]

You mean in ads/fanboys' dreams?
Sure, the hardware is computer all right (has been always, even when it had a slow singlecore and 256MB RAM. RPi 1 is/was computer too), but the OS and what software does with it... no. Appliance.

It's not the ad that matters, it's the change of course Apple made with regard to whom it markets the product. This marks an important turning point and shows they're getting more and more serious about what this forum discussed for years: moving away from Intel in their productivity oriented devices (and ecosystem).

Of course marketing will never speak about the shitty aspects though, only the rivers of chocolate and gold-paved streets. What do you expect, truth?

I'm not a fan of Apple, and you certainly are the opposite of an Apple fan, but what you think of their marketing does not change what they do with their engineering teams.

 

[Ajay]

It's a conundrum for Apple as people can buy actual computers for far less than a an iPad Pro, which is as expensive as many laptops (and no multi-logins with iPads). Apple's on to somethings, but cost, as it often is, is an issue for them.

 

[Burpo]

Necro'd this thread?

 

[Makaveli]

Seriously this is 2+ years old...

 

[DrMrLordX]

The necro is strong in this one!

 

[stockolicious]

Apple can thank their lucky stars they chose Intel.

have you seen APPL's Workstation offerings? TR has made them obsolete due to the price differences. appl looks foolish there

 

[stockolicious]

I already stated that I think Apple will stick with intel. I don't think they are ready to switch, and I think intel might have something to offer with Skylake. Broadwell, however, does not impress me.


I think this should be a wake up call to intel and they should take note that they can only maintain absurd margins if they offer an absurd amount of performance in comparison to their competitors. Lately, that has not been the case. Whether that is a result of all "low hanging fruit" being picked, a lack of talent, or a lack of funding.... I don't know. The answer will come when Skylake is released. I think the only scenario where Apple ditches intel, is one in which Skylake is somehow borked and Apple finds out about it.

"I think Apple will stick with intel." why? they can use INTC and AMD APU's in different lineups - that is what the other OEM's do APPL doesnt need to be intel only. if AMD's APU's RR are good and they do look good then APPL hurts itself by not offering both.

 

[dark zero]

The necro is strong in this one!

But is necessary, because is happening a scenario Intel (and we) didin't expect.... Apple is near to catch them up big time. And they are starting with the cross software between x86 and ARM... seems that Apple was not dumb there....

 

[Makaveli]

But is necessary, because is happening a scenario Intel (and we) didin't expect.... Apple is near to catch them up big time. And they are starting with the cross software between x86 and ARM... seems that Apple was not dumb there....

The only thing necessary would be to create a new thread.

This needs to be locked.

 

[majord]

Well if people didn't quote old posts the necro wold be fine (I thought the forum warned you of this when quoting?)

The original premise of this thread was that Intel could essentially put the squeeze on Apple, and would continue to be able to.. Those who dared to argue against this were mocked, so it's a funny read flipping through the pages in hindsight. How quickly things change.

Apple now have competitive x86 at there disposal, and a dominating ARM core.. So not one but two arguments squashed.

 

[tential]

The necro is strong in this one!

Not all necros are bad. It's good to return to a topic sometimes.

It's nice to see what we all thought 2 years ago vs now.

We need a term like "classy" necros or like "thoughtful" necros.

necromancery gets a bad name because of all the bad that comes from it, but I swear there is good that can come from it...

 

[tential]

A few years later... and they start asking the question.

This was the obvious conclusion. I also had agreed and said something similar to what you said that the fight would be the ipad/tablet market.
People are less tied to a particular OS now than ever.