• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Turkey invades northern Iraq

B

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
AP via Yahoo
ANKARA, Turkey - Several thousand Turkish troops crossed into northern
Iraq early Wednesday to chase Kurdish guerrillas who operate from bases there, Turkish security officials told The Associated Press.

Two senior security officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media, said the raid was limited in scope and that it did not constitute the kind of large incursion that Turkish leaders have been discussing in recent weeks.
Click to expand...
Hopefully, this will be a limited raid in both troops and time. But I doubt it will go over well with many Kurds or the Iraqi Parliament.

Looks like the Turks decided to ignore Gates



The officials said any confrontation with Iraqi Kurdish groups, who have warned against a Turkish incursion, could trigger a larger cross-border operation. The Turkish military has asked the government in Ankara to approve such an incursion, but the government has not given formal approval.
---
Turkey has been building up its military forces on the Iraqi border in recent weeks, amid debate among political and military leaders about whether to attack separatist rebels of the PKK, or Kurdistan Workers' Party. The rebels stage raids in southeast Turkey after crossing over from hideouts in Iraq.
Click to expand...
So much for hoping for a limited raid in scope and time . . . particularly if it becomes a mountain campaign.
 
Invade ? Wrong description.

webster : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder

Turkish Army will draw back after PKK terrorists are dealt with. There will be no conquest or change of borders
 
Originally posted by: Oric
Invade ? Wrong description.

webster : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder

Turkish Army will draw back after PKK terrorists are dealt with. There will be no conquest or change of borders
Click to expand...



Oh, please...

1. an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, esp. by an army.



:roll:
 
Originally posted by: Oric
Invade ? Wrong description.

webster : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder

Turkish Army will draw back after PKK terrorists are dealt with. There will be no conquest or change of borders
Click to expand...

You can certainly hope . . . but read the article
said the raid was limited in scope and that it did not constitute the kind of large incursion that Turkish leaders have been discussing in recent weeks.
---
The last major Turkish incursion into northern Iraq was in 1997, when about 50,000 troops were sent to the region.
--
could trigger a larger cross-border operation. The Turkish military has asked the government in Ankara to approve such an incursion, but the government has not given formal approval.
---
Turkey has been building up its military forces on the Iraqi border recently, amid debate among political and military leaders about whether to attack separatist rebels of the PKK, or Kurdistan Workers' Party.
Click to expand...
Last time we built up our forces near another country and said we would draw back if our 'demands' were met . . .
 
Originally posted by: Oric
Invade ? Wrong description.

webster : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder

Turkish Army will draw back after PKK terrorists are dealt with. There will be no conquest or change of borders
Click to expand...

Exactly how are they expecting this to turn out? Go into Iraq, kill all the Kurdish 'terrorists' (i'm assuming these terrorists are very easy to spot... do they wear red arm bands or something?), and go back home and everything is fine and dandy?
 
Originally posted by: Oric
Invade ? Wrong description.

webster : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder

Turkish Army will draw back after PKK terrorists are dealt with. There will be no conquest or change of borders
Click to expand...


You mean after the land grab for the oil?
 
What land grabbing ? This is not the first time operation in N.Iraq ? There has been quite many and the last time I checked no Iraqi territory has been grabbed. Anyway, talking about invasion of land for oil, how are the US troops doing in Iraq 😉
 
If invade is the wrong word, try incursion. Its still starts a dangerous trend and Turkey has not been a happy camper with the US occupation of Iraq. Initial US plans for the invasion of Iraq called for a Northern front using land routes through Turkish territory. And that was scrubbed because Turkey objected with US plans on the treatment of the Kurds.

And Turkey is another mid-east regional nation with some very complex political undercurrents. And their military regards themselves as protectors in the Attaturk tradition of keeping the the government out of Islamic control. And lately radical Islam has been making inroads in Turkey---and the PKK has been a real sore spot and hot button issue along with any possibility of a Kurdush State.

I will assume that Turkey may initially teach the PKK a lesson, and honor satisfied, they will likely then withdraw. But I also suspect that the PKK will learn and adapt with a goal of resuming business as usual. The Iraqi problem has now become a question of stability---with the fear being a civil war could soon start in Iraq and then spread far past Iraqi borders to then engulf the wider mid-east. The only thing that somewhat prevents that civil war is the lack of heavy weapons--massed artillery, tanks, and the like baggage normally called an army. But this Turkish incursion also forcefully reminds us that such a wider mid-east war could start as other regional states intervene after one or more other nations intervene. Which would leave painfully thinly stretched US troops referring a regional dogfight involving ancient grievances we ill understand.

Going to war is usually a emotional rather than an rational act. And an emotion is ever bit as valid as fact in driving actions. And war is also an act that loudly proclaims, I don't care what the other side thinks or feels, my minds made up and don't confuse me with anything else.

It also warns of what I have been saying for awhile---the GWB plan of stay the course in Iraq is not something that will be given infinite time to work. And time now seems to be running out. It may be realistic diplomacy time immediately or it may soon be too late.
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: palehorse74
DOH! not good...
Click to expand...

why? You claim Israel had every right to do it.

Go on cheer Turkey.
I'm waiting
Click to expand...
Of course Turkey has the right, and a good reason, to go after the Kurdish rebels. However, that doesn't mean that this incursion is a good thing. My post was simple and to the point: that point being that this does not bode well for stability in the region.

wtf does Israel have to do with this situation? get a grip mr. hezbollah. sheesh...
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: palehorse74
DOH! not good...
Click to expand...

why? You claim Israel had every right to do it.

Go on cheer Turkey.
I'm waiting
Click to expand...
Of course Turkey has the right, and a good reason, to go after the Kurdish rebels. However, that doesn't mean that this incursion is a good thing. My post was simple and to the point: that point being that this does not bode well for stability in the region.

wtf does Israel have to do with this situation? get a grip mr. hezbollah. sheesh...
Click to expand...

& an incursion of Israel into Lebanon is stable for the region? You supported that 100%.

Hezbollah is an Islamic militant group.
Like I said you are nothing but a bigot.
Funny how when it comes to Muslims doing the same thing you aren't defending their actions with all you got, but when Israel does it you will defend it always.

I'm just pointing out your closed-minded thinking process.
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: palehorse74
DOH! not good...
Click to expand...

why? You claim Israel had every right to do it.

Go on cheer Turkey.
I'm waiting
Click to expand...
Of course Turkey has the right, and a good reason, to go after the Kurdish rebels. However, that doesn't mean that this incursion is a good thing. My post was simple and to the point: that point being that this does not bode well for stability in the region.

wtf does Israel have to do with this situation? get a grip mr. hezbollah. sheesh...
Click to expand...

& an incursion of Israel into Lebanon is stable for the region? You supported that 100%.

Hezbollah is an Islamic militant group.
Like I said you are nothing but a bigot.
Funny how when it comes to Muslims doing the same thing you aren't defending their actions with all you got, but when Israel does it you will defend it always.

I'm just pointing out your closed-minded thinking process.
Click to expand...
oh christ... get a frickin grip dude.

For the record, I support ANYONE who goes after terrorists, regardless of their faith or ideology - that includes Turkey, Israel, India, Jordan, Egypt, Pakistan (sometimes), etc.

I classify a terrorist as any fighter who intentionally targets innocent civilians. (Hamas, Hezbollah, some Kurdish rebels, AQ, etc).
 
Originally posted by: Train
The entire report is bogus.

No Turkish troops have entered Iraq.
Click to expand...
The AP has a few articles on the subject, but every one of them remains "unconfirmed." I've been waiting for the major sites to pick this up, but it's been strangely quiet. And, since I'm not at work, I have no idea if it's true...

What makes you say it's bogus? source?

 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: palehorse74
DOH! not good...
Click to expand...

why? You claim Israel had every right to do it.

Go on cheer Turkey.
I'm waiting
Click to expand...
Of course Turkey has the right, and a good reason, to go after the Kurdish rebels. However, that doesn't mean that this incursion is a good thing. My post was simple and to the point: that point being that this does not bode well for stability in the region.

wtf does Israel have to do with this situation? get a grip mr. hezbollah. sheesh...
Click to expand...

& an incursion of Israel into Lebanon is stable for the region? You supported that 100%.

Hezbollah is an Islamic militant group.
Like I said you are nothing but a bigot.
Funny how when it comes to Muslims doing the same thing you aren't defending their actions with all you got, but when Israel does it you will defend it always.

I'm just pointing out your closed-minded thinking process.
Click to expand...
oh christ... get a frickin grip dude.

For the record, I support ANYONE who goes after terrorists, regardless of their faith or ideology - that includes Turkey, Israel, India, Jordan, Egypt, Pakistan (sometimes), etc.

I classify a terrorist as any fighter who intentionally targets innocent civilians. (Hamas, Hezbollah, some Kurdish rebels, AQ, etc).
Click to expand...

I don't care to hear about some famous magician.

Do you support people who go after nations that support terrorism?
Because the U.S has a big list of history of sponsoring terrorism under Republican control.
 
Well palehorse74 has just labeled Israel as a terrorist nation with---"I classify a terrorist as any fighter who intentionally targets innocent civilians. (Hamas, Hezbollah, some Kurdish rebels, AQ, etc)." And last summer Israeli incursion that bombed all of Lebanon all the way to the Syrian border did just that---Targeted totally innocent Lebanese civilians. The perps firing the rockets had to be no more than 60 miles away from the Israeli border.

While I agree that Hezbollah is partly a terrorist organization---it just eludes me to distinguish the intent aspect---Israel was simply punishing innocent Lebanese civilians because some people in Lebanon supported Hezbollah. And for Israel---that tactic did not work---Hezbollah support increased, not only in Lebanon but also throughout the larger mid-east.

Once again palehorse74, I implore you to start thinking of ways to defuse tensions and not increase them. Both sides are doing a fine job at increasing them as it is.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well palehorse74 has just labeled Israel as a terrorist nation with---"I classify a terrorist as any fighter who intentionally targets innocent civilians. (Hamas, Hezbollah, some Kurdish rebels, AQ, etc)." And last summer Israeli incursion that bombed all of Lebanon all the way to the Syrian border did just that---Targeted totally innocent Lebanese civilians. The perps firing the rockets had to be no more than 60 miles away from the Israeli border.

While I agree that Hezbollah is partly a terrorist organization---it just eludes me to distinguish the intent aspect---Israel was simply punishing innocent Lebanese civilians because some people in Lebanon supported Hezbollah. And for Israel---that tactic did not work---Hezbollah support increased, not only in Lebanon but also throughout the larger mid-east.

Once again palehorse74, I implore you to start thinking of ways to defuse tensions and not increase them. Both sides are doing a fine job at increasing them as it is.
Click to expand...

Actually palehorse74 definition would not include Israel. Israel did not intentionally target civilians. Infrastructure - yes; military targets - yes; terrorists - yes. In some cases, civilians were killed. Wrong place, wrong time. Was Israel wrong, IMO yes. But that does not make it a terrorist state.

Hamas, Hezbollah, some Kurdish rebels, AQ, etc do intentionally target civilians and as such are terrorists.
 
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well palehorse74 has just labeled Israel as a terrorist nation with---"I classify a terrorist as any fighter who intentionally targets innocent civilians. (Hamas, Hezbollah, some Kurdish rebels, AQ, etc)." And last summer Israeli incursion that bombed all of Lebanon all the way to the Syrian border did just that---Targeted totally innocent Lebanese civilians. The perps firing the rockets had to be no more than 60 miles away from the Israeli border.

While I agree that Hezbollah is partly a terrorist organization---it just eludes me to distinguish the intent aspect---Israel was simply punishing innocent Lebanese civilians because some people in Lebanon supported Hezbollah. And for Israel---that tactic did not work---Hezbollah support increased, not only in Lebanon but also throughout the larger mid-east.

Once again palehorse74, I implore you to start thinking of ways to defuse tensions and not increase them. Both sides are doing a fine job at increasing them as it is.
Click to expand...

Actually palehorse74 definition would not include Israel. Israel did not intentionally target civilians. Infrastructure - yes; military targets - yes; terrorists - yes. In some cases, civilians were killed. Wrong place, wrong time. Was Israel wrong, IMO yes. But that does not make it a terrorist state.

Hamas, Hezbollah, some Kurdish rebels, AQ, etc do intentionally target civilians and as such are terrorists.
Click to expand...
exactly!

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well palehorse74 has just labeled Israel as a terrorist nation with---"I classify a terrorist as any fighter who intentionally targets innocent civilians. (Hamas, Hezbollah, some Kurdish rebels, AQ, etc)." And last summer Israeli incursion that bombed all of Lebanon all the way to the Syrian border did just that---Targeted totally innocent Lebanese civilians.
Click to expand...
wrong. at no point did the Israelis intentionally target innocent or [/i]unarmed[/i] civilians. The targets were the actual Hezbollah elements and infrastructure that hezbollah relied upon for mobility and communication. Any truly innocent civilians that were unfortunately killed were not the targets of the Israeli attacks.

That truth is essentially what separates the good guys from the bad guys. Intent is everything - and anyone who intentionally targets innocent civilians is a terrorist. period. (ie. crashing planes into office buildings, randomly lobbing rockets into cities, or blowing yourself up in a crowded market).
The perps firing the rockets had to be no more than 60 miles away from the Israeli border.
Click to expand...
wrong again. The ones firing the actual rockets, perhaps; but, hezbollah itself is spread throughout "all of lebanon all the way to the Syrian border."
While I agree that Hezbollah is partly a terrorist organization
Click to expand...
ya.. nice doublespeak. Every member of Hezbollah is a terrorist. period.
it just eludes me to distinguish the intent aspect---Israel was simply punishing innocent Lebanese civilians because some people in Lebanon supported Hezbollah. And for Israel---that tactic did not work---Hezbollah support increased, not only in Lebanon but also throughout the larger mid-east.
Click to expand...
thanks to propaganda and the suckers who eat it up.
Once again palehorse74, I implore you to start thinking of ways to defuse tensions and not increase them. Both sides are doing a fine job at increasing them as it is.
Click to expand...
I dont know wtf your problem is. I actually condone the Turkish military's attempts to root out Kurdish terrorists; and I do not hold them to a higher standard than Israel.

my initial statement in this thread was "not good..." By that I was simpyl commenting on the further instability this situation is going to cause.

you Hezbollah fanbois 'jes dont read good.
 
Lets not engage in backbiting debates over the question if Turkish troops have or have not entered Iraq. It will be a basic matter of fact and time will tell. But it is firmly known that
Turkey has massed quite a few troops at the Iraqi border. More definitive news about an actual Turkish boots on Iraqi ground may take some time especially if facts are in dispute.

But I have read the link the OP posted, and it appears legitimate.
 
Originally posted by: Looney
Originally posted by: Oric
Invade ? Wrong description.

webster : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder

Turkish Army will draw back after PKK terrorists are dealt with. There will be no conquest or change of borders
Click to expand...

Exactly how are they expecting this to turn out? Go into Iraq, kill all the Kurdish 'terrorists' (i'm assuming these terrorists are very easy to spot... do they wear red arm bands or something?), and go back home and everything is fine and dandy?
Click to expand...

It's working for Bush and Republicans according to the Bush faithful in here so why not for the Turks?
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: palehorse74
DOH! not good...
Click to expand...

why? You claim Israel had every right to do it.

Go on cheer Turkey.
I'm waiting
Click to expand...
Of course Turkey has the right, and a good reason, to go after the Kurdish rebels. However, that doesn't mean that this incursion is a good thing. My post was simple and to the point: that point being that this does not bode well for stability in the region.

wtf does Israel have to do with this situation? get a grip mr. hezbollah. sheesh...
Click to expand...

& an incursion of Israel into Lebanon is stable for the region? You supported that 100%.

Hezbollah is an Islamic militant group.
Like I said you are nothing but a bigot.
Funny how when it comes to Muslims doing the same thing you aren't defending their actions with all you got, but when Israel does it you will defend it always.

I'm just pointing out your closed-minded thinking process.
Click to expand...
oh christ... get a frickin grip dude.

For the record, I support ANYONE who goes after terrorists, regardless of their faith or ideology - that includes Turkey, Israel, India, Jordan, Egypt, Pakistan (sometimes), etc.

I classify a terrorist as any fighter who intentionally targets innocent civilians. (Hamas, Hezbollah, some Kurdish rebels, AQ, etc).
Click to expand...

There is more to add onto just targeting innocent civilians.

Terrorist is any fighter who intentionally targets innocent civilians, who does not wear the military uniform of their country therefore shielding themselves among the normal population and softening any repercussions their acts of war has on their home country.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top