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Turkey invades northern Iraq
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Lemon law
Lifer
Finally we get the Jackalas definition of what a terrorist is-----Terrorist is any fighter who intentionally targets innocent civilians, who does not wear the military uniform of their country therefore shielding themselves among the normal population and softening any repercussions their acts of war has on their home country.
Some how I have to invoke the George Wallace and the tweedle dum and tweedle dee twins. "There is not a a dimes difference between the two." Wearing a uniform and inciting violence, if anything is the more craven of the two acts. In the final analysis, most terrorism is instigated by people who also wear or use uniforms.
Some how I have to invoke the George Wallace and the tweedle dum and tweedle dee twins. "There is not a a dimes difference between the two." Wearing a uniform and inciting violence, if anything is the more craven of the two acts. In the final analysis, most terrorism is instigated by people who also wear or use uniforms.
blackllotus
Golden Member
blackllotus
Golden Member
That is true but the point is that Israel was very careless with its attacks. They didn't try to kill Lebanese civilians but they also didn't try not to.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
Maybe someone should tell the Turks.
Seems like the stage is being set . . .
DealMonkey
Lifer
If only we could strike into Pakistan like the Turks can with Iraq! Double d'oh!
Yup that's what I thought too. Classic trial balloon to soften people for the real thing. Just like the steady warmongering against Iran is beginning to take effect. People here are now increasingly accepting the idea of war with Iran without a shed of proof for anything other than anonymous statements from "government officials" or various military officers claiming this or that.
palehorse
Lifer
What sort of "proof" do you require? One would have to be a complete idiot to believe that Iran is doing anything other than supporting every single one of our enemies. Their shadowy involvement and support of our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan is a no-brainer, and it should not come as a surprise to anyone with half a clue... duh.
The world has asked them to stop developing nuclear technology and they essentially gave the world the finger... strike two.
All it will take is one more strike - something major - for Iran to hang themselves... and I pray for that moment every day of my life! However, my prayers involve the Iranian regime imploding without a single shot being fired by the US and our allies. I pray for a somewhat peaceful collapse of the Iranian regime. I pray that their President and mullahs die in their sleep.. all of them.
All of that is more preferable than the US having to fight them... we dont need another damn war anytime soon.
But, if the Iranian government forces our hand, we'll be forced to thrash them. 😉
Oric
Senior member
Nope. THE TURKISH PARLIMENT voted against it because the plan called for 390,000 US soldiers being permenantly stationed in Southeastern Turkey. As a sovereign nation you don't have to allow that. Those small details are not made known to US Public in general, you are only told that Turkey rejects to help USA. That is not the point. Turkey has been a good ally of United States for the last 60 years. You have to stop and think for a moment WHY your offer was rejected.
tomywishbone
Golden Member
Gobble Gobble.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
THIS thread is about Turkey in Iraq NOT the abundant missteps by the US administration with regards to Iran. But since you cannot resist, I am compelled to correct your ignorance:
1) The US has few (if any) friends/allies in Iraq and Afghanistan so almost any group that Iranians 'support' is going to be a boon to our enemies. But until the USA stops supporting militant opposition groups in Iran . . . complaints about Iran are nothing more than *pot-kettle* Oh yeah, Karzai PRAISED the Iranians . . . in Gates face!
2) The world has asked the USA and Israel to do all kinds of things. Do we obey? If we believe it's in our interests, sure. If not, we give the world the finger . . . strike two.
3) All it takes is one more major conflict for our country to effectively hang ourselves. I await with pleasure the END of the Bush43 administration and hope upon hope that it is replaced with a considerate, intelligent, pro-active administration capable of leading the world to a better future instead of miring our country and others in perpetual fruitless conflict. Unfortunately, the Hagel/Powell ticket ain't gonna happen.
But I do pray some reasonable remnant in the Bush43 Junta prevents Bush43 from going 0-2-1 in wars. Iran IS a regional power. Their rise was inevitable with the collapse of Saddam. Iran will likely join the nuclear club (just like Israel, India, and Pakistan) . . . other nations that thumbed their noses at the world.
Turkey certainly has issues but that's no different from any other country, nobody is perfect. But they have a right to secure their border when their neighboring sovereign fails to do so . . . unlike the unfounded actions of say the USA in the region.
1) The US has few (if any) friends/allies in Iraq and Afghanistan so almost any group that Iranians 'support' is going to be a boon to our enemies. But until the USA stops supporting militant opposition groups in Iran . . . complaints about Iran are nothing more than *pot-kettle* Oh yeah, Karzai PRAISED the Iranians . . . in Gates face!
2) The world has asked the USA and Israel to do all kinds of things. Do we obey? If we believe it's in our interests, sure. If not, we give the world the finger . . . strike two.
3) All it takes is one more major conflict for our country to effectively hang ourselves. I await with pleasure the END of the Bush43 administration and hope upon hope that it is replaced with a considerate, intelligent, pro-active administration capable of leading the world to a better future instead of miring our country and others in perpetual fruitless conflict. Unfortunately, the Hagel/Powell ticket ain't gonna happen.
But I do pray some reasonable remnant in the Bush43 Junta prevents Bush43 from going 0-2-1 in wars. Iran IS a regional power. Their rise was inevitable with the collapse of Saddam. Iran will likely join the nuclear club (just like Israel, India, and Pakistan) . . . other nations that thumbed their noses at the world.
Turkey certainly has issues but that's no different from any other country, nobody is perfect. But they have a right to secure their border when their neighboring sovereign fails to do so . . . unlike the unfounded actions of say the USA in the region.
Turkish
Lifer
My dad has Kurdish heritage, mom has Eastern European heritage, I was born, raised, etc. in Turkey and I am 100% Turkish. I call myself a Turk. I am sick off the Kurds in Iraq. It's time to get this over with. If the U.S. won't do anything about the terrorist that do not hurt US, we'll do it ourselves.
Oh and it would be great help if the U.S. stops supplying Kurds with A4 explosives (with excuses such as "they stole our trucks!").
Cheers.
Oh and it would be great help if the U.S. stops supplying Kurds with A4 explosives (with excuses such as "they stole our trucks!").
Cheers.
Lemon law
Lifer
The big winners in Gulf war one and two has been the Kurds---and in terms of being always a bridesmaid and never a bride its also the Kurds--dating back to at least Lawrence of Arabia days. But with the advent of the Northern no fly zone, the Kurds had been able to thumb their noses at Saddam and are living right on top of a mountain of black gold.
And now the Kurds are sitting on the fence----will they join in a new democratic Iraq or decide to form their own independent State?---and the notion that the Kurds speak with one voice is also absurd. But I have to assume that some Kurds---and some of the PKK clearly favor the independent State option. And I would also have to assume that some of the more prudent ones do have well advanced contingency plans to turn some of that black gold into the heavy weapons needed to establish and maintain such a State.
I am not taking sides or advocating anything, I am just pointing out exactly how volatile the situation can become because the Kurds are a real sore spot with the Turks. And if the Turks do intervene, it could get other neighboring States intervening. And Iraq could get out of all control really fast.
The real dangerous illusion is that while we play partisan games in Washington, we will discover that we don't have infinite time to bicker---And Iraq can simply solve itself by ignited a regional war.
And now the Kurds are sitting on the fence----will they join in a new democratic Iraq or decide to form their own independent State?---and the notion that the Kurds speak with one voice is also absurd. But I have to assume that some Kurds---and some of the PKK clearly favor the independent State option. And I would also have to assume that some of the more prudent ones do have well advanced contingency plans to turn some of that black gold into the heavy weapons needed to establish and maintain such a State.
I am not taking sides or advocating anything, I am just pointing out exactly how volatile the situation can become because the Kurds are a real sore spot with the Turks. And if the Turks do intervene, it could get other neighboring States intervening. And Iraq could get out of all control really fast.
The real dangerous illusion is that while we play partisan games in Washington, we will discover that we don't have infinite time to bicker---And Iraq can simply solve itself by ignited a regional war.
In 5 months time there's supposed to be a referendum on whether Kirkuk is to be included under Kurdish control. That region is responsible for a good chunk of Iraq's oil production, something like 1 million barrels a day, and such an inclusion would make viable an independent Kurdish state. Turkey, as you can imagine, is opposed to such a move, and would likely take action if such a measure passes, although any "invasion" would be tough going as the Peshmerga are among the most competent forces in the region, they being the reason that the violence in the rest of Iraq does not envelop them. The Kurds are pragmatists and have sold out the PKK before and would likely do so again to strike a deal with Turkey.
Jaskalas
Lifer
I would call those war criminals, and war crimes of which there SHOULD BE NO DOUBT that the nation should be held accountable. Yet when those same fighters take off their uniform there are those among us who root for and support them in their actions and even go so far as to claim those fighters are victims themselves, as if we can excuse their actions.
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